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Cole's Plus/Minus: Flower Power! Pens vs. Caps

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Old
11-21-2013, 12:17 AM
  #101
12IsGreaterThan47
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
I was a little disappointed in the goaltending coach the Pens hired, but so far...holy crap.

This is the MAF I was hoping to defend to the masses that doubted him outside of our fan base and later, within our fan base.

Thanks for finally seeing that Doc, MAF.
If this is how he plays the entire season, he won't have many doubters.

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11-21-2013, 12:19 AM
  #102
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The biggest ++++ for me is how very very good our last two rookie forward call ups have looked (well, two out of three...Sill hasn't got much of a chance).

This is amazing for our franchise which has a well documented history of a severe lack of forward prospects making an impact. And yeah the sample size has been small, but in that small sample size these two have actually produced. And they look poised, smart, responsible, fast and aggressive. It is nice to be excited about some unheralded youth from our farm team.

Gibbons looked good again. He looked poised and unfazed on that play where he went against Ovechkin and almost had the breakaway and it is nice to see that youth has been mostly responsible for the secondary scoring over the games which they've played. Demote Megna? Slump ensues. Recall and insert Gibbons? Slump ends
I know it isn't THAT simple but it has to be refreshing for the players and energize the team a wee bit to have some guys come in and help out right away. I have a theory on why we are bringing up forward after forward after forward (almost all of them rookies as well) but I doubt that this is the thread for it.

I agree with the majority of what has been said in here regarding the game. Orpiks best game of the year by far IMO. Disagree with all of the Letang comments again as it comes from the same usual bashers (is that confirmation bias used correctly Capp?), and Maffy was a stud. If he gets injured at all then we may be properly screwed!

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11-21-2013, 12:20 AM
  #103
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There was a lot of good with Crosby and Bennett but we also saw the bad when both playmakers basically refused to shoot the puck on that 2 on 1 and squandered that scoring chance.
It's going to take them time to get the hang of each other. You can't expect them to look like the Sedin twins after only two games together.

That's the fear I have with the coaching staff, that they'll start picking apart every flaw like the above as justification to break up the line right away, instead of giving it a good 15 to 20 game stretch to see how they look at that point.

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11-21-2013, 12:22 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by stardog View Post
The biggest ++++ for me is how very very good our last two rookie forward call ups have looked (well, two out of three...Sill hasn't got much of a chance).

This is amazing for our franchise which has a well documented history of a severe lack of forward prospects making an impact. And yeah the sample size has been small, but in that small sample size these two have actually produced. And they look poised, smart, responsible, fast and aggressive. It is nice to be excited about some unheralded youth from our farm team.

Gibbons looked good again. He looked poised and unfazed on that play where he went against Ovechkin and almost had the breakaway and it is nice to see that youth has been mostly responsible for the secondary scoring over the games which they've played. Demote Megna? Slump ensues. Recall and insert Gibbons? Slump ends
I know it isn't THAT simple but it has to be refreshing for the players and energize the team a wee bit to have some guys come in and help out right away. I have a theory on why we are bringing up forward after forward after forward (almost all of them rookies as well) but I doubt that this is the thread for it.

I agree with the majority of what has been said in here regarding the game. Orpiks best game of the year by far IMO. Disagree with all of the Letang comments again as it comes from the same usual bashers (is that confirmation bias used correctly Capp?), and Maffy was a stud. If he gets injured at all then we may be properly screwed!
I dunno, because outside of the PP, I didn't think Letang was bad, but I kept seeing people call him trash in the GDT and I really wasn't sure why.

I didn't think he was bad in his own zone and he was great (imo) through the neutral zone, jumping up in the offensive zone.

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11-21-2013, 12:29 AM
  #105
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I have to think that Bort is banged up. It would be a travesty if he was being healthy scratched.

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11-21-2013, 12:37 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
I dunno, because outside of the PP, I didn't think Letang was bad, but I kept seeing people call him trash in the GDT and I really wasn't sure why.

I didn't think he was bad in his own zone and he was great (imo) through the neutral zone, jumping up in the offensive zone.
Personally, I was going to give him an even but I changed my mind based on the circumstances.

He has been bad this season and needs to have a big game but he was outplayed by at least 2 other Pens defensemen. Not what you need out of a $58 million, Norris nominated defenseman.

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11-21-2013, 12:52 AM
  #107
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I have to think that Bort is banged up. It would be a travesty if he was being healthy scratched.
Yeah, I think billybudd said the Nashville broadcasters mentioned Bortuzzo was banged up when we played the Preds a few games back.

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11-21-2013, 01:25 AM
  #108
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Geno and Neal have been together a while. They didn't have that chemistry from the first minute. Bennett and Sid have *flashed* AMAZING chemistry. They see the game at the same speed. They need more time. There's an adjustment period there.

edited in a word, because the chemistry hasn't always been there, but there's been glimpses of it
Exactly. It's only been two games and they've already showed signs of working great together. As mentioned, the longer Bennett was there the more comfortable he looked. A crazy concept, I know.

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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I see what you're saying about Neal and Geno though. They do read each other exceptionally well. I think the idea is so foreign to Sid after playing with Kunie and Dupes that it'll take some adjusting to a guy like Bennett making nice plays to him. It's like an abused animal being treated nicely by a new owner.
It's so sad how true this is

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Yeah, I think billybudd said the Nashville broadcasters mentioned Bortuzzo was banged up when we played the Preds a few games back.
Speaking of him, I'd love to hear his thoughts on Beau's game tonight.

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11-21-2013, 02:32 AM
  #109
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For as nice as that PPG was, isn't it sad that only way that play works is Sid roofing a world class impossible angle shot.

I'm not sure if BB is the answer, but it'd be nice if he got some time over there to see how it worked. The things I'd do for a RHS over that side of the ice on the PP.

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11-21-2013, 02:40 AM
  #110
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Rossi posted a blog. I found this both hilarious and odd.

Quote:
WASHINGTON — Pascal Dupuis has three goals in 22 games.

He remains worth every dollar, all 3,750,000, that count against the Penguins’ salary cap.

After the morning skate on Wednesday, Dupuis waited out second-year winger Beau Bennett, recently promoted to Dupuis’ old spot as Sidney Crosby’s top-line right winger.

Bennett is a fan of taking extra work after practices. Often he is among the last players off the ice. That was the case Wednesday morning at Verizon Center, too.

Upon beginning to remove his gear inside the visitor’s dressing room, Bennett was informed by Dupuis that a person wakes up with 100 percent of his energy. From that moment on for the rest of the day, Dupuis said, energy is lost.

Bennett smiled.

Dupuis did not.

His implication to Bennett was not to waste energy on extra work after a morning skate. A deep reserve of energy, Dupuis pointed out, is a requirement if a player is to help Crosby produce offensively.


Helping Crosby helps the Penguins.

Dupuis talked quietly with Bennett for about two minutes. His point made, Dupuis then headed for post-practice treatment.

Bennett scored his first goal in the Penguins’ 4-0 win over Washington.

“He wasn’t joking about that,” Bennett said of Dupuis’ call for him to better conserve energy.

“I was completely serious,” Dupuis said after the win.

Dupuis is even more serious about his most important role with the Penguins.

It’s not as a top-six winger, which he remains as the left-side guy for Evgeni Malkin. It’s as one of their most trusted leaders.
http://blog.triblive.com/chipped-ice...ke-in-buffalo/


....so Dupuis is telling Beau not to practice? Is that some sort of sabotage to get his spot back?

And we all know how much Duper knows about helping Crosby out offensively

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11-21-2013, 02:58 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
If this is how he plays the entire season, he won't have many doubters.
He's the guy I want to see win an individual award the most on this team, yeah it'd be nice to see Sid win a few himself and even Geno, but if there is one guy on this team that desperately needs it the most, it's MAF.

He needs his Vezina season. I am really hoping this is it *knocks on every object in my home made out of wood.*


Also this pic is glorious...


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11-21-2013, 02:59 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Waffle Fries View Post
Rossi posted a blog. I found this both hilarious and odd.



http://blog.triblive.com/chipped-ice...ke-in-buffalo/


....so Dupuis is telling Beau not to practice? Is that some sort of sabotage to get his spot back?

And we all know how much Duper knows about helping Crosby out offensively


This team is getting pretty weird. Beau is probably like "What the hell did I get myself into here? I could be surfing right now back at home."

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11-21-2013, 03:00 AM
  #113
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Why can't we do this against the terrible teams we've lost against?

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Old
11-21-2013, 03:13 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Waffle Fries View Post
Rossi posted a blog. I found this both hilarious and odd.



http://blog.triblive.com/chipped-ice...ke-in-buffalo/


....so Dupuis is telling Beau not to practice? Is that some sort of sabotage to get his spot back?

And we all know how much Duper knows about helping Crosby out offensively
What even?

Has Orpik taught Dupuis his ways? Is Dupuis trying sabotage Bennett? Is that Bylsma's plan to get Dupuis back to Crosby's wing? Did Rossi essentially make the whole thing up? Is some poor PR intern trying to figure out what the hell they're saying? Is Crosby in the background doing another WTF face?

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11-21-2013, 03:36 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Waffle Fries View Post
Rossi posted a blog. I found this both hilarious and odd.



http://blog.triblive.com/chipped-ice...ke-in-buffalo/


....so Dupuis is telling Beau not to practice? Is that some sort of sabotage to get his spot back?

And we all know how much Duper knows about helping Crosby out offensively
Dupuis has played with Crosby for a long time. He probably does know quite a bit about what it takes to play with him. I think he's always had good enough chemistry with Sid. He just isn't necessarily skilled enough for the role.

Dupuis probably has a point about trying to conserve energy. Sid plays the game at such a frantic pace that we've seen some guys struggle to keep up with him out there.

Sid often gets smothered by the better defensive teams in the playoffs because the guys on his line aren't really capable of creating much on their own. We need a winger that can grab the bull by the horns and take control of things out there in those situations. A guy that isn't so dependent upon Sid to create everything. We haven't had that since Hossa left. Hopefully Bennett can be that.


Last edited by Captain Hook: 11-21-2013 at 03:43 AM.
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11-21-2013, 04:09 AM
  #116
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I only saw the first two periods, but I thought Letang was good 5 on 5 and actually on the PK. He's just not the right guy for the powerplay. Its a negative for him overall, but I don't know if I can give him a minus on a game to game basis for being bad on the powerplay since its what I expect at this point.

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11-21-2013, 04:47 AM
  #117
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Its pretty clear to me that Malkin and Sid have been pacing themselves the past 2 or 3 weeks.

I would rather have them play a hard ~:15 over a coasting ~:20. Depending on how the game is playing out I would cut their even strength time and give them the full 2 mins of the PP.

If I'm spending money to come out to see the Pens I would be pissed... but I fully understand whats going on.

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11-21-2013, 06:19 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Hossa and Crosby took some time to adjust to each other, but I've re-watched those playoff games and by the Rags series, those two were making unreal plays together.

I think Crosby has to slow his game down and let things develop with BB. He was doing that with Hossa, but now he is so used to straight line guys with speed, that he has to adjust back to that mindset of being more patient.
Sid could probably stand to alter his game. I don't say that in a negative way, because I absolutely love the way he plays. He will never be able to mesh with certain players because very few players can move that fast and still be able to do the things Sid can do.

He needs to let things develop more v. taking on the brunt of the opponents defense head on, which as we both know, is just madness in itself. A typical player will have some east-west to their game, and create some movement when coming down on defenses to create spots for his linemates to get open. That's why Kunitz and Dupuis have been attached to Sid. All 3 of them just like blowing right through the middle of the defense. That's why when they play Zdeno Chara...it doesn't go too well. You aren't just blowing through him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
He's the guy I want to see win an individual award the most on this team, yeah it'd be nice to see Sid win a few himself and even Geno, but if there is one guy on this team that desperately needs it the most, it's MAF.

He needs his Vezina season. I am really hoping this is it *knocks on every object in my home made out of wood.*

Also this pic is glorious...

Fleury is coming to the age in his career where he's either going to take the next step and be an upper echelon goaltender, or he's not. Goaltenders usually start taking their game to that next level at 28-30, and can maintain it until 33-34. Fleury is right there. If he's going to win a Vezina...he's going to do it shortly.

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Its pretty clear to me that Malkin and Sid have been pacing themselves the past 2 or 3 weeks.

I would rather have them play a hard ~:15 over a coasting ~:20. Depending on how the game is playing out I would cut their even strength time and give them the full 2 mins of the PP.

If I'm spending money to come out to see the Pens I would be pissed... but I fully understand whats going on.
They should be pacing themselves, IMO. No reason to spend everything they have for nothing. As long as we stay a top the East...we're fine. I wouldn't have even been playing either one of them in the 3rd period last night. Give Beau, Gibbons, Megna and guys like that more minutes.

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11-21-2013, 06:32 AM
  #119
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11-21-2013, 06:57 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Waffle Fries View Post
Rossi posted a blog. I found this both hilarious and odd.



http://blog.triblive.com/chipped-ice...ke-in-buffalo/


....so Dupuis is telling Beau not to practice? Is that some sort of sabotage to get his spot back?

And we all know how much Duper knows about helping Crosby out offensively
God love him, but Dupes could use a little less energy and a little more practice.

That quote explains a lot.

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11-21-2013, 07:09 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Waffle Fries View Post
Rossi posted a blog. I found this both hilarious and odd.



http://blog.triblive.com/chipped-ice...ke-in-buffalo/


....so Dupuis is telling Beau not to practice? Is that some sort of sabotage to get his spot back?

And we all know how much Duper knows about helping Crosby out offensively
Wtf?

Maybe this works for Dupes who has to play 100 mph to be slightly effective with Crosby, but BB doesn't need to fly around the ice like a headless chicken like Dupuis does. Maybe if Dupes slowed down some, his hands and instincts might be able to keep up with his feet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Sid could probably stand to alter his game. I don't say that in a negative way, because I absolutely love the way he plays. He will never be able to mesh with certain players because very few players can move that fast and still be able to do the things Sid can do.

He needs to let things develop more v. taking on the brunt of the opponents defense head on, which as we both know, is just madness in itself. A typical player will have some east-west to their game, and create some movement when coming down on defenses to create spots for his linemates to get open. That's why Kunitz and Dupuis have been attached to Sid. All 3 of them just like blowing right through the middle of the defense. That's why when they play Zdeno Chara...it doesn't go too well. You aren't just blowing through him.
Chicago abused Chara by going E-W and using their skill. Lemieux, Gretz, Jagr and even Malkin when he is on, slow(ed) the game down. I think if Crosby has any flaws it's that he doesn't have that same patience. With his acceleration he should have no problems slowing things down when need be and letting things develop.

If he wants to play with a skilled playmaker like BB, he better start slowing his game down a little and letting the play develop more.

Patrick Kane is a perfect example of a speedster who shifts gears constantly and sometimes slows the play down to a near standstill.... It's pretty remarkable to watch the insane speed deviations he plays the game at.

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11-21-2013, 07:45 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Sid could probably stand to alter his game. I don't say that in a negative way, because I absolutely love the way he plays. He will never be able to mesh with certain players because very few players can move that fast and still be able to do the things Sid can do.

He needs to let things develop more v. taking on the brunt of the opponents defense head on, which as we both know, is just madness in itself. A typical player will have some east-west to their game, and create some movement when coming down on defenses to create spots for his linemates to get open. That's why Kunitz and Dupuis have been attached to Sid. All 3 of them just like blowing right through the middle of the defense. That's why when they play Zdeno Chara...it doesn't go too well. You aren't just blowing through him.



Fleury is coming to the age in his career where he's either going to take the next step and be an upper echelon goaltender, or he's not. Goaltenders usually start taking their game to that next level at 28-30, and can maintain it until 33-34. Fleury is right there. If he's going to win a Vezina...he's going to do it shortly.



They should be pacing themselves, IMO. No reason to spend everything they have for nothing. As long as we stay a top the East...we're fine. I wouldn't have even been playing either one of them in the 3rd period last night. Give Beau, Gibbons, Megna and guys like that more minutes.
I agree with that too but just because he doesn't fit on a top line doesn't mean that Dupuis is chopped liver. Him getting more mins last night than Sid and Malkin makes some sense.

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11-21-2013, 07:49 AM
  #123
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+ THAT GOAL! I swear I haven't seen a Pens goal that pretty since the late 90's. Ironically, I've seen the Caps score a few like that in recent memory.
+ Full Spectrum Dominance. That's the only term I can think of for the Pens performance last night (less the coaching staff).

- Glass. It was difficult to pick out many Pens playing poorly this game, but Glass made himself easily identifiable as the worst Penguin on the ice by a country mile.
- Dupuis. Whatever he once had, he no longer does.
- Bylsma. It was pointed out by others, but giving Adams & Glass that much ice time with Crosby while cutting out Vitale's time is awful awful coaching. He's desperately using Crosby to try to make his little princesses look more useful than they are. When Pierre raved about Bylsma's use of Crosby with those two, as if it was some kind of cunning display of coaching, I wanted to stick my head in a tub of ice water.

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11-21-2013, 08:00 AM
  #124
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wtf is that dupuis article about? its funny to see rossi rush to defend his buddy dupuis as soon as he's finally bumped off the top line, "worth every penny of that contract"... ok.

anyway, what is dupuis talking about? you only lose energy throughout the day? dude clearly knows nothing about thermodynamics. and lol at him basically telling bennett not to practice so he can skate around like a moron and bumble sid's passes like pascal himself does. if i was bennett and would just smile and nod and get right back to practice.

also this fleury vezina talk needs to stop. hes not playing at a vezina level. hes playing like a solid goaltender on a solid defensive team. still the worst playoff goalie in the league, still a complete embarrassment for a supposed contender to have him as their starting goalie.

i think more people should be worried about the possibility of the penguins resigning maf after this season. lets say he continues his solid regular season play, and plays "average" in the playoffs (average for nhl goaltenders overall, for fleury it would be a good playoffs relative to how bad he is). not historically bad, which would be a huge improvement for maf.

shero and the country club wold almost certainly convince themselves fleury has turned the corner and sign him to another deal.

but in reality, its more likely that fleury simply realizes his nhl career is on the line, so hes finally not being a jackass. yet when his career isn't on the line, he'll likely revert to being a clown.

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11-21-2013, 08:11 AM
  #125
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i think more people should be worried about the possibility of the penguins resigning maf after this season. lets say he continues his solid regular season play, and plays "average" in the playoffs (average for nhl goaltenders overall, for fleury it would be a good playoffs relative to how bad he is). not historically bad, which would be a huge improvement for maf.

shero and the country club wold almost certainly convince themselves fleury has turned the corner and sign him to another deal.

but in reality, its more likely that fleury simply realizes his nhl career is on the line, so hes finally not being a jackass. yet when his career isn't on the line, he'll likely revert to being a clown.
I think people here worry about more than enough things years in advance. So much so that they never seem to enjoy the present.

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