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Emphasis on drafting speed and skill paying off for New York Rangers

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Old
11-24-2013, 06:12 PM
  #51
ecemleafs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wafflepadsave View Post
That's what I was hoping for too. Two of the best drafts(2003 & 2013), the rangers disappear.
2013 has a long way to go to be compared to 2003...

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11-24-2013, 06:16 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by RangersHank View Post
True but other teams found them without tanking. Just gotta draft smart and scout the right guys. Doesnt mean much now but i like Mcilrath, but Mcilrath over Tarasenko AT THE TIME? Nobody knows how it will turn out but it would be nice to have Tarasenko on this team. Kreider-Stepan-Tarasenko sound nice right about now but its irrelevant. Teams like Boston drafted top guys and they didnt tank. Dallas found Benn in round 5, they drafted Neal in round 2. These guys are there we just need to draft them. I'm not very confident in our scouts
Like! Or maybe Sather is hard of hearing. Was also hoping Jeff Gorton could make more of an impact drafting or maybe it is drafting philosophy?

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11-24-2013, 06:17 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by RangersHank View Post
Dont talk down to me. I like the Mcilrath pick, but right now we need a scorer. RIGHT NOW i prefer Tarasenko, but i'll be grateful to see Mcilrath make the team soon.
Not only directed to you, but to the countless other posters who bring up this topic every week.

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11-24-2013, 06:25 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
2013 has a long way to go to be compared to 2003...
Very true. I guess I am also hoping for a trade up for some high end talent or have enough assets to trade for such talent. Really ready for some tough power forwards to compliment the speed guys.

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11-24-2013, 09:27 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangersHank View Post
Youre missing the point.

Other than Hagelin, Stepan and Kreider, what other young offensive forwards do we have on the team? Tarasenko would be nice to add to a core of Stepan, Hags and Kreider dont you think? The scouting isnt "fine". How is the scouting fine? It could be alot better imo. Tarasenko would be a nice piece to our top 6 RIGHT NOW. Young scorer with size who has 8 goals, more than any forward on our team. I'm not saying he would save the day, but adding another young top 6 scorer in Tarasenko would have been nice. Scoring is what we need right?

I didnt say Stepan, Hagelin or Miller arent young enough did i? Miller should be in the AHL right now. We constantly put players in the NHL to trade them away because they dont have enough offensive skill.
Do you even read what you write?

You said, "other than Kreider, what young forwards do we have in the NHL?"

Why do you think I brought up Stepan and Hagelin? You wrote some ridiculous crap about only having Kreider as a young forward. The quote is up there if you want to go and re-read what you wrote. So now you are trying to move the goalposts AFTER I call you out on that crap? Please. Don't try and do that stuff with me. Save it for someone who is gullible enough to buy it.

What players are we "constantly" putting in the NHL only to trade them because of a lack of offense? I can think of Dubi and Anisimov who were moved for Nash. What others are we "constantly" trading?

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11-24-2013, 09:28 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangersHank View Post
Dont talk down to me.
Then stop re-hashing a 2010 pick that doesn't appear to be a bad pick as of this time. It's not that difficult.

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11-24-2013, 09:58 PM
  #57
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Wow, some of these comments.

You can talk hindsight all day, but when you draft, you don't know how every player is going to turn out years from now.

NYR have a lot of good young players. People are whining that we "only" have a very good amount of them, and that the drafting is "weak" even though the team hasn't had a top pick in forever and many players on the team, or with a future on the team, are NYR picks.

The drafting isn't perfect, but my god, people's standards here are absolutely absurd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
Not the point.

Goal starved team. Mcilrath in Hartford punching people. Tarasenko has 8 goals.

We could use those 8 goals.

How many more wins might we have now and in the future if we projected out his 8 goals in 22 over entire season to say.... 30 goals hmmm....?

End of story.

And for the record, Big Mac is our guy now and I'm 100% behind his development and hopefully his stepping into a big time role for this team.
Yeah, you're totally behind him. That's why you characterize his play as "punching people" when he's actually playing first pairing minutes.

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11-24-2013, 10:24 PM
  #58
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Agreed. Aside from the great group of young players we've had make the jump into the NHL, and the solid group in the pipeline, our drafting just hasn't been good enough.

For all of the "Dallas found Benn in the 5th round!" crap I read, I hardly ever see people acknowledge where Hank was drafted. Ultimately this always boils down to nothing more than people being bitter that they don't have an elite "home grown" offensive talent to rub in other people's faces on the trade board.

Hagelin, Callahan, Kreider, Staal, Stepan, Lundqvist, and Del Zotto have all played, or are playing huge roles on this team. Home grown players gave us the pieces to trade for Nash. Our scouting targeted guys like McDonagh and Moore in trades, and Stralman and Girardi as undrafted FA's. We have a very good group of prospects developing in the AHL. But boohoo, we don't have Tarasenko. Get over it already.

There's going to be nothing more satisfying than watching McIlrath put Tarasenko on his ass the first time they play.

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11-24-2013, 11:23 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Agreed. Aside from the great group of young players we've had make the jump into the NHL, and the solid group in the pipeline, our drafting just hasn't been good enough.

For all of the "Dallas found Benn in the 5th round!" crap I read, I hardly ever see people acknowledge where Hank was drafted. Ultimately this always boils down to nothing more than people being bitter that they don't have an elite "home grown" offensive talent to rub in other people's faces on the trade board.

Hagelin, Callahan, Kreider, Staal, Stepan, Lundqvist, and Del Zotto have all played, or are playing huge roles on this team. Home grown players gave us the pieces to trade for Nash. Our scouting targeted guys like McDonagh and Moore in trades, and Stralman and Girardi as undrafted FA's. We have a very good group of prospects developing in the AHL. But boohoo, we don't have Tarasenko. Get over it already.

There's going to be nothing more satisfying than watching McIlrath put Tarasenko on his ass the first time they play.
Well didn't you get the memo? This team can't draft. We have no young forwards in the NHL outside of Kreider.

And even if we do promote young forwards to the NHL, we constantly trade them if they don't immediately produce.


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11-24-2013, 11:24 PM
  #60
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Oh, and I agree. At this point I almost hope that McIlrath beats Tarasenko through the ice to the center of the earth and we never see or hear of him again.

Maybe we should just re-sign Lisin.

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Old
11-25-2013, 12:07 AM
  #61
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More interesting to me than Tarasenko was Bjugstad.

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11-25-2013, 12:26 AM
  #62
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People are complaining about drafting? Are you kidding me? This team used to have no home grown talent whatsoever and was a patch work of UFA's.

It is now built through drafting and smart trades for players identified by the scouts. Not to mention undrafted players found by the scouts. Home grown talent also enabled this team to go out and get Nash - they did that without moving the best young players on the team (Stepan, McDonagh etc… )

The organization isn't perfect, but it's been run very well in recent years.

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11-25-2013, 02:55 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnaby View Post
People are complaining about drafting? Are you kidding me? This team used to have no home grown talent whatsoever and was a patch work of UFA's.

It is now built through drafting and smart trades for players identified by the scouts. Not to mention undrafted players found by the scouts. Home grown talent also enabled this team to go out and get Nash - they did that without moving the best young players on the team (Stepan, McDonagh etc… )

The organization isn't perfect, but it's been run very well in recent years.
Agreed. No clue where these complaints are coming from. Guessing the new posters complaining about drafting weren't around during the dark ages.

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Old
11-25-2013, 07:29 AM
  #64
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The Rangers do need to get more out of their drafts. Every team has money so they re-sign their players. The top players never reach the free agent market and aren't available in trades unless there is something wrong with him or they want too much money. Its that way in every sport. The draft is so important.

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11-25-2013, 07:48 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Yeah, you're totally behind him. That's why you characterize his play as "punching people" when he's actually playing first pairing minutes.

Don't mind him. He just wants Rangers to draft his Russians. Russian players never bust.

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Old
11-25-2013, 08:33 AM
  #66
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Holy ****! The St. Louis worship on this board sometimes is unbelievable (and it spans much further than Tarasenko)

This team hasn't won a cup in 42 years of existence. They haven't reached the conference finals since 2001, and haven't been to the finals since ****ing 1970.

Stop talking about them like they're some sort of model franchise. They have three young offensive talents, just like this supposedly broken franchise.

And the 2010 draft? 5 other teams also passed on Tarasenko. One of those teams being the 'Saints', who picked Schwartz before him.

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11-25-2013, 08:40 AM
  #67
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Oh, and I agree. At this point I almost hope that McIlrath beats Tarasenko through the ice to the center of the earth and we never see or hear of him again.

Maybe we should just re-sign Lisin.
Jon. Really ? You had to go there

Big Mac will have to catch him first. Or maybe vlady just skates into him....

And this lisin fellow ? Sounds interesting. Details please.

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11-25-2013, 09:23 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Do you even read what you write?

You said, "other than Kreider, what young forwards do we have in the NHL?"

Why do you think I brought up Stepan and Hagelin? You wrote some ridiculous crap about only having Kreider as a young forward. The quote is up there if you want to go and re-read what you wrote. So now you are trying to move the goalposts AFTER I call you out on that crap? Please. Don't try and do that stuff with me. Save it for someone who is gullible enough to buy it.

What players are we "constantly" putting in the NHL only to trade them because of a lack of offense? I can think of Dubi and Anisimov who were moved for Nash. What others are we "constantly" trading?


No need to be snotty dude, relax. Were having a conversation, not having a 12 year old girl argument. Take that somewhere else.

We have Kreider, Stepan and Hagelin. Which one is supposed to be the goal scorer? Stepan is more of a playmaker, Hagelin is a speed monster and Kreider is still a ? in a way. We don't have a young SCORING forward is what i'm saying. Kreider MIGHT be that young scorer but we dont know yet. We do know he hustles and plays hard but most of our prospects do. all i'm saying is that we lack that legit young scorer. I could care less about 2010 dude, i just used that as an example of having the chance to draft a young scorer. I like Mcilrath.

Who else did we put in the NHL and actually keep?


And this goalposts thing you mention, dude, i have no idea who you are and nor do i care for you.I'm here to talk about hockey, not argue with people. You think i'll come on here and twist things around? Sorry i dont care for you that much to do that. Lets keep the conversation going, but dont insult me, bring that to someone else. Thanks.

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11-25-2013, 09:26 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Then stop re-hashing a 2010 pick that doesn't appear to be a bad pick as of this time. It's not that difficult.


You overrate our scouting tremendously. Say it, we havent got the most out of our drafts. Other people here understand that, why dont you? Maybe if management didnt screw drafts up or if they drafted better, we wouldnt be in this offensive hole we are in. now go ahead, come back with a snotty remark like a 16 year old girl

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11-25-2013, 09:31 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangersHank View Post
You overrate our scouting tremendously. Say it, we havent got the most out of our drafts. Other people here understand that, why dont you? Maybe if management didnt screw drafts up or if they drafted better, we wouldnt be in this offensive hole we are in. now go ahead, come back with a snotty remark like a 16 year old girl


We are one of the better drafting teams in hockey.

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11-25-2013, 09:32 AM
  #71
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I'm at the point where I don't think of Kreider as a prospect anymore. He's made the team.

Under 25 players on the Rangers:

1. Ryan McDonagh 24 LD--legit 1st pairing d-man
2. Derek Stepan 23 C--top 6 center with 1st line upside if he continues to improve
3. Chris Kreider 22 LW top 6 LW--potential legit 1st line LW
4. Carl Hagelin 25 LW/RW--top 9 all situation winger flexible enough to plug holes all over the lineup
5. John Moore 23 LD--bottom pairing d-man with top 4 upside
6. Michael Del Zotto 23 LD/RD-- experienced offensive minded d-man capable of top 4 slot on left side who seems on the outs with the coaching staff

7. Cam Talbot 26 G--going to add him to this group as he's still pretty young and he's just breaking in to the NHL and so far he's been so good that I've changed his potential from backup goalie to potential NHL starting goalie

In the system--how I'd rank what's left:

1. JT Miller C/W--IMO the closest forward to making it but he still has things to work on--should be full time NHL player next year
2. Dylan McIlrath RD fills a harder to find RD slot. Would make the team a lot tougher than it is. Expected full time NHL player next year.
3. Danny Kristo RW--has the offensive skill to play in the NHL right now. Needs to work on his overall game. Even with his offensive skills there have been a lot of players like him that haven't panned out as hoped. They might bounce around the NHL for a while but never really become a core player on a good team. I expect he'll be in the NHL soon but have tempered my expectations. He should get a shot this season or next.
4. Jesper Fast RW--I actually like Jesper more than I like Kristo. Size and injuries might be his biggest hurdles to overcome. Smart player with an all around game. Wiry strong. Reminds me a bit of Patrik Elias/Daniel Alfredsson. Probably won't score like those guys though
5. Oscar Lindberg C--started great in training camp and seemed to hit a wall before the end of preseason. His numbers are good for a 1st year player acclimatizing to North America and its rinks. Like Fast he's a well schooled player. Right now he's a potential injury call up with maybe more time in the NHL next year
6. Brady Skjei LD--he's playing at least another year after this at Minnesota U. Great skater--good size--more of a stay at home. The NHL is probably 3 years away anyway
7. Pavel Buchnevich LW--maybe the most offensively talented of Rangers prospects. Good size and skating. A goal scoring knack. Signed for at least one more year to his KHL team. Needs to put on more muscle and probably to improve his overall game. At least 2 years away from the NHL if he signs
8. Conor Allen RD/LD--skating, size--ability to defend and move the puck--has a shot at a bottom pairing defense job with the Rangers maybe as soon as next year
9. Boo Nieves C--great skater-really nice size though he needs to fill out more. More of a playmaker than a shooter. I'd figure he's probably going to spend one more year at Michigan and then turn pro. He'll need at least one season in Hartford
10. Marek Hrivik LW--good size and skating. Seems to have a grasp on his defensive responsibilities. Apart from a big goal scoring binge in the AHL a couple seasons ago most of his offensive output tends to be from making plays rather than scoring goals

Of the ten prospects listed above--none of them really have shown NHL 1st line or 1st pairing D potential. A number of them could be very useful players but counting on all ten of the above to make it is setting yourself up for disappointment. The top two should just about be guaranteed productive players. Miller has tons of determination and grit to go along with size and skill and McIlrath is huge and extremely tough which fills a need the team lacks.

After the top 10:

11. Anthony Duclair LW--great speed--having a really nice season in the Q
12. Andrew Yogan C/W--has size and skill but his adjustment to the pros has not quite been as good as hoped. Bottom line NHL potential
13. Michael St. Croix C--starts his career in the ECHL. Smart offensive minded player--needs a lot of work
14. Calle Andersson D--righty shooting d-man--good offensive instincts
15. Adam Tambellini LW--freshman at North Dakota U. He's going to be a while if at all
16. Michael Kantor RW--gritty energy player. 4th liner at best

To me that just about sums up any prospects we currently have that have any hope of making it one day to the NHL. We are not deep. After Nieves I think we're reaching a bit. We have young players making a big impact for our NHL team and another wave on it's way that looks okay (Miller, McIlrath, Fast, Kristo, Lindberg) but the wave that comes after that in say 3-4 years is the one I'd worry about. When you don't have young guys ready to move up every year you're stuck with mercenaries and free agents to fill even the small holes. The Rangers can do a lot to mitigate that by not trading away their top picks in the next couple--three years IMO. One other thing we're going to have to find another pretty good goalie.

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11-25-2013, 09:32 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Agreed. Aside from the great group of young players we've had make the jump into the NHL, and the solid group in the pipeline, our drafting just hasn't been good enough.

For all of the "Dallas found Benn in the 5th round!" crap I read, I hardly ever see people acknowledge where Hank was drafted. Ultimately this always boils down to nothing more than people being bitter that they don't have an elite "home grown" offensive talent to rub in other people's faces on the trade board.

Hagelin, Callahan, Kreider, Staal, Stepan, Lundqvist, and Del Zotto have all played, or are playing huge roles on this team. Home grown players gave us the pieces to trade for Nash. Our scouting targeted guys like McDonagh and Moore in trades, and Stralman and Girardi as undrafted FA's. We have a very good group of prospects developing in the AHL. But boohoo, we don't have Tarasenko. Get over it already.

There's going to be nothing more satisfying than watching McIlrath put Tarasenko on his ass the first time they play.


People here wanted Stepan traded for Jokinen and they want DZ gone for a bag of pucks. Lol

we have great kids i agree. But no young kid who is supposed to be a goal scorer. Screw Tarasenko, we are always trying to trade our prospects for other teams projects and its a revolving door. if the drafting was a bit better, we would be in a better situation.

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11-25-2013, 09:35 AM
  #73
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We are one of the better drafting teams in hockey.


The scouting can be better. We draft alot of 2-3rd line players and some of them are gone for nothing thanks to Sather. what 1st liners have we really drafted?

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11-25-2013, 09:37 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by RangersHank View Post
The scouting can be better. We draft alot of 2-3rd line players and some of them are gone for nothing thanks to Sather. what 1st liners have we really drafted?
You either luck out with 1st liners or you bottom out and get them. Rangers haven't bottomed out.

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11-25-2013, 09:37 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
I'm at the point where I don't think of Kreider as a prospect anymore. He's made the team.

Under 25 players on the Rangers:

1. Ryan McDonagh 24 LD--legit 1st pairing d-man
2. Derek Stepan 23 C--top 6 center with 1st line upside if he continues to improve
3. Chris Kreider 22 LW top 6 LW--potential legit 1st line LW
4. Carl Hagelin 25 LW/RW--top 9 all situation winger flexible enough to plug holes all over the lineup
5. John Moore 23 LD--bottom pairing d-man with top 4 upside
6. Michael Del Zotto 23 LD/RD-- experienced offensive minded d-man capable of top 4 slot on left side who seems on the outs with the coaching staff

7. Cam Talbot 26 G--going to add him to this group as he's still pretty young and he's just breaking in to the NHL and so far he's been so good that I've changed his potential from backup goalie to potential NHL starting goalie

In the system--how I'd rank what's left:

1. JT Miller C/W--IMO the closest forward to making it but he still has things to work on--should be full time NHL player next year
2. Dylan McIlrath RD fills a harder to find RD slot. Would make the team a lot tougher than it is. Expected full time NHL player next year.
3. Danny Kristo RW--has the offensive skill to play in the NHL right now. Needs to work on his overall game. Even with his offensive skills there have been a lot of players like him that haven't panned out as hoped. They might bounce around the NHL for a while but never really become a core player on a good team. I expect he'll be in the NHL soon but have tempered my expectations. He should get a shot this season or next.
4. Jesper Fast RW--I actually like Jesper more than I like Kristo. Size and injuries might be his biggest hurdles to overcome. Smart player with an all around game. Wiry strong. Reminds me a bit of Patrik Elias/Daniel Alfredsson. Probably won't score like those guys though
5. Oscar Lindberg C--started great in training camp and seemed to hit a wall before the end of preseason. His numbers are good for a 1st year player acclimatizing to North America and its rinks. Like Fast he's a well schooled player. Right now he's a potential injury call up with maybe more time in the NHL next year
6. Brady Skjei LD--he's playing at least another year after this at Minnesota U. Great skater--good size--more of a stay at home. The NHL is probably 3 years away anyway
7. Pavel Buchnevich LW--maybe the most offensively talented of Rangers prospects. Good size and skating. A goal scoring knack. Signed for at least one more year to his KHL team. Needs to put on more muscle and probably to improve his overall game. At least 2 years away from the NHL if he signs
8. Conor Allen RD/LD--skating, size--ability to defend and move the puck--has a shot at a bottom pairing defense job with the Rangers maybe as soon as next year
9. Boo Nieves C--great skater-really nice size though he needs to fill out more. More of a playmaker than a shooter. I'd figure he's probably going to spend one more year at Michigan and then turn pro. He'll need at least one season in Hartford
10. Marek Hrivik LW--good size and skating. Seems to have a grasp on his defensive responsibilities. Apart from a big goal scoring binge in the AHL a couple seasons ago most of his offensive output tends to be from making plays rather than scoring goals

Of the ten prospects listed above--none of them really have shown NHL 1st line or 1st pairing D potential. A number of them could be very useful players but counting on all ten of the above to make it is setting yourself up for disappointment. The top two should just about be guaranteed productive players. Miller has tons of determination and grit to go along with size and skill and McIlrath is huge and extremely tough which fills a need the team lacks.

After the top 10:

11. Anthony Duclair LW--great speed--having a really nice season in the Q
12. Andrew Yogan C/W--has size and skill but his adjustment to the pros has not quite been as good as hoped. Bottom line NHL potential
13. Michael St. Croix C--starts his career in the ECHL. Smart offensive minded player--needs a lot of work
14. Calle Andersson D--righty shooting d-man--good offensive instincts
15. Adam Tambellini LW--freshman at North Dakota U. He's going to be a while if at all
16. Michael Kantor RW--gritty energy player. 4th liner at best

To me that just about sums up any prospects we currently have that have any hope of making it one day to the NHL. We are not deep. After Nieves I think we're reaching a bit. We have young players making a big impact for our NHL team and another wave on it's way that looks okay (Miller, McIlrath, Fast, Kristo, Lindberg) but the wave that comes after that in say 3-4 years is the one I'd worry about. When you don't have young guys ready to move up every year you're stuck with mercenaries and free agents to fill even the small holes. The Rangers can do a lot to mitigate that by not trading away their top picks in the next couple--three years IMO. One other thing we're going to have to find another pretty good goalie.


the cupboard looks bare. No dynamic forward prospect in the system unless someone surprises us. Half those guys wont make the team imo. Grachev was supposed to be a star too

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