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Switzerland voting Sunday on a MAXimum wage

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11-24-2013, 02:10 PM
  #1
SocialismFTW
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Switzerland voting Sunday on a MAXimum wage

http://aattp.org/what-wouldnt-americ...-cap-tomorrow/

The 1:12 Initiative aims to tackle the ever-widening wage gap between employees and their corporate overlords by limiting CEO pay to 12x the lowest-paid worker’s compensation.

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11-24-2013, 02:12 PM
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Sevanston
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They already rejected it. 65% of voters said no.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-1...ay-limits.html

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11-24-2013, 02:15 PM
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SocialismFTW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevanston View Post
They already rejected it. 65% of voters said no.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-1...ay-limits.html
It's an interesting idea nonetheless

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11-24-2013, 07:02 PM
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Kadri43
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Hm, a very interesting idea to say the least. I would probably support that If I were voting.

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11-24-2013, 07:10 PM
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Kurtosis
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It's a gimmick idea.

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11-24-2013, 07:24 PM
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Ugmo
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It would be a fine idea if every country adopted it, but it seems a bit like Switzerland would be cutting off its nose to spite its face if it did this alone.

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11-24-2013, 07:45 PM
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Kurtosis
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It would be a fine idea if every country adopted it, but it seems a bit like Switzerland would be cutting off its nose to spite its face if it did this alone.
That's putting it lightly.

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11-24-2013, 07:51 PM
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Concordski
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I consider myself a lefty, but this sounds like a terrible idea; a very strong price control forced upon the people for no reason.

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11-24-2013, 07:53 PM
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Howard Beale
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Interesting and valuable idea, but I think 12x is too low at this point in time, when nobody else has similar legislation. Even a limit of 30x or 20x would have helped, and would have been more palatable to business leaders. And then if it's successful and other countries adopt similar policies, they could gradually lower it towards 12x. I think they overreached here.

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11-24-2013, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Concordski View Post
I consider myself a lefty, but this sounds like a terrible idea; a very strong price control forced upon the people for no reason.
I think concerns about increasing inequality and disproportionately high increases in managerial pay over time would the reasons (in Switzerland and elsewhere).

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11-24-2013, 08:01 PM
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Concordski
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I think concerns about increasing inequality and disproportionately high increases in managerial pay over time would the reasons (in Switzerland and elsewhere).
That I can understand, but there's no reason for the specific ratio given.

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11-24-2013, 08:12 PM
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Howard Beale
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Originally Posted by Concordski View Post
That I can understand, but there's no reason for the specific ratio given.
Gotcha and I agree with you there. I think they should have first tried out a higher limit to see how it plays out in reality.

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11-24-2013, 09:35 PM
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If the minimum wage in America is 8 dollars per hour that means the highest a CEO (of a company using minimum wage workers) could make would be $96 an hour. If the CEO put in 2000 hours that year that would still be $192,000.

Currently the CEO of McDonalds makes 17 million dollars per year. If you did this process in reverse and he worked 2000 hours he would be making $8500 an hour. The average worker would then be making $708 an hour which is $700 dollars more per hour than they are currently making.

And McDonald's says it can't afford to pay workers $15 an hour.

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11-24-2013, 09:37 PM
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Habsfunk
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Originally Posted by Howard Beale View Post
Gotcha and I agree with you there. I think they should have first tried out a higher limit to see how it plays out in reality.
I read that the idea is that high earners shouldn't make more in a month than someone does in a year.

I like this idea in theory. In practice, it would lead to the exit of a flood of money from Switzerland and would probably be bad for their economy. I could see this ending up becoming some sort of voluntary pledge a company would undertake to be called "Economically Equal" or "Equality Certified", similar to how there are different certifications one can earn for environmental friendliness.

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11-24-2013, 09:39 PM
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Tim Calhoun
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2000 hours a year adds up to about 38 hours per week. CEOs work a lot more than that.

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11-24-2013, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by SocialismFTW View Post
And McDonald's says it can't afford to pay workers $15 an hour.
they can, but they'd probably axe and automate at least half of their workforce to do so.

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11-24-2013, 09:45 PM
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SocialismFTW
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Originally Posted by Tim Calhoun View Post
2000 hours a year adds up to about 38 hours per week. CEOs work a lot more than that.
Proof please?? The owner of the company I currently work for comes into the office once a week for about 2 hours and I have personally seen him drinking hard alcohol at the job. I'm an electrician btw if that matters. The company I work for employs 380ish electricians and 20 office staff if that matters.

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11-24-2013, 09:50 PM
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Tim Calhoun
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Originally Posted by SocialismFTW View Post
Proof please?? The owner of the company I currently work for comes into the office once a week for about 2 hours and I have personally seen him drinking hard alcohol at the job. I'm an electrician btw if that matters. The company I work for employs 380ish electricians and 20 office staff if that matters.
I don't care about your anecdotes. It's very common that executives at large corporations work very long hours.

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11-24-2013, 09:52 PM
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That's why they should earn hundreds of times what their shiftless clock punchers earn.

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11-24-2013, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Ugmo View Post
That's why they should earn hundreds of times what their shiftless clock punchers earn.
Yes, they absolutely should.

People who run businesses with thousands of employees, with tens of billions of dollars in revenue, and with presence in a hundred different countries absolutely should make A LOT more money than some easily replaceable grunt who runs a cashier, simply because they are A LOT more valuable to the company they work for. It's reality.

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11-24-2013, 10:04 PM
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Ugmo
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Originally Posted by Tim Calhoun View Post
Yes, they absolutely should.

People who run businesses with thousands of employees, with tens of billions of dollars in revenue, and with presence in a hundred different countries absolutely should make A LOT more money than some easily replaceable grunt who runs a cashier, simply because they are A LOT more valuable to the company they work for. It's reality.
Some of them are so valuable to their companies that they run them into the ground and get massive severance packages when the companies have to get rid of them.

How did companies even survive a couple of decades ago when they only paid their CEOs 20 times more than their average employees? It's amazing they could actually find people to do the job at such a paltry salary.

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11-24-2013, 10:11 PM
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Tim Calhoun
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Originally Posted by Ugmo View Post
Some of them are so valuable to their companies that they run them into the ground and get massive severance packages when the companies have to get rid of them.

How did companies even survive a couple of decades ago when they only paid their CEOs 20 times more than their average employees? It's amazing they could actually find people to do the job at such a paltry salary.
There's an extremely strong correlation between firm size and CEO pay. Companies have gotten a lot larger, in terms of market cap, over the last few decades and CEO pay has risen by equivalent amounts. If you run a bigger company, you make more money. It's not rocket science.

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11-24-2013, 10:13 PM
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Maximum wage, bad idea.

However, there shouldn't be working poor. Companies like McDonald's and Walmart make billions and many of the full time staff make so little they collect government assistance. In a sense, tax payers are subsidizing these companies so they can pay so little.

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11-24-2013, 10:25 PM
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Ugmo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Calhoun View Post
There's an extremely strong correlation between firm size and CEO pay. Companies have gotten a lot larger, in terms of market cap, over the last few decades and CEO pay has risen by equivalent amounts. If you run a bigger company, you make more money. It's not rocket science.
And if you are a worker who has helped the company to make more money for its stockholders, you should reap the fruits of that as well, rather than just the CEO. That's the problem with this equation. The "Eh, that's how the market works, whatcha gonna do?" attitude is detrimental to society in cases like this.

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11-24-2013, 10:27 PM
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SocialismFTW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Calhoun View Post
I don't care about your anecdotes. It's very common that executives at large corporations work very long hours.
Do you have any proof whatsoever that the average CEO work more than 38 hours a week or should I just take your word for it because you're so smart?

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