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Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XXVI

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Old
12-16-2013, 10:20 AM
  #601
Devil Dancer
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
The latter, and it's only a small portion of the fanbase.
I don't believe that. Given Laich's recent injury history, ineffectiveness when healthy and his contract, I think a large portion of the fanbase would be happy to see him gone.

Plus, it's a small sample size of course, but most of the Caps fans I interact with want him gone.

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Old
12-16-2013, 10:22 AM
  #602
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I don't believe that. Given Laich's recent injury history, ineffectiveness when healthy and his contract, I think a large portion of the fanbase would be happy to see him gone.

Plus, it's a small sample size of course, but most of the Caps fans I interact with want him gone.
I think you underestimate his popularity. Green, yeah, the majority is turning on him, but not Laich. That's the impression I get at and around games.

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12-16-2013, 10:26 AM
  #603
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I think it is somewhere in between.

For what its worth, I also hear more and more casual fans mention they hate Laich.

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12-16-2013, 10:37 AM
  #604
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I think it is somewhere in between.

For what its worth, I also hear more and more casual fans mention they hate Laich.
There are some here that obviously don't like Laich or Brouwer and would like to see them go. I'm not in those camps. But all that being said, how Erat escapes anyone's wrath is a mystery to me. The guy has not delivered, not even during the shootout. He's been given his opportunities now, so he needs to shut up and put up.

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12-16-2013, 10:37 AM
  #605
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I think the laich hate could get turned around in 10 good games. Particularly if his ineffectiveness is injury based and he can recover his health. Green has the same problems that all offensive defensemen have. If he is gone, Carlson will be the next target. Carlson of the last two regular seasons as the primary defenseman gets high level hate. Orlov will get his soon enough too.

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12-16-2013, 10:41 AM
  #606
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As far as Mike Green goes, I'd like to see Oates experiment with him ala Brent Burns with San Jose, and move him to forward for a few games. Dress 7 d-men and use Green accordingly.


Last edited by BiPolar Caps: 12-16-2013 at 10:51 AM.
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12-16-2013, 10:47 AM
  #607
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Green has the same problems that all offensive defensemen have.
Not being able to score, sucking defensively and not being able to stay healthy? That doesn't affect all offensive dmen.

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12-16-2013, 10:49 AM
  #608
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Not being able to score, sucking defensively and not being able to stay healthy? That doesn't affect all offensive dmen.
Which dman led the league in goals at his position last year?

Short term memory much?

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12-16-2013, 10:53 AM
  #609
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Which dman led the league in goals at his position last year?

Short term memory much?
And Troy Brouwer is the answer to all our secondary scoring concerns.

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12-16-2013, 11:05 AM
  #610
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
And Troy Brouwer is the answer to all our secondary scoring concerns.
Mike Green has led the NHL in goals by a Dman 3 x in his carreer, is a 2 time 1st team all star and Norris runner up.

I think he's built up far more equity than Troy Brouwer. I like Brouwer alot but I never said anything other than his goal scoring year last year was an abberation.

Mike Green is the best goal scoring defenseman in the league since he became a full time starter.

I don't see how they compare really or what point you are trying to make

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12-16-2013, 11:05 AM
  #611
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Will the first line have to be -40 combined before Oates realizes it has to be altered?

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12-16-2013, 11:08 AM
  #612
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Will the first line have to be -40 combined before Oates realizes it has to be altered?
Is +/- a valid stat first off? If it is important then I haven't seen anyone do anything but discredit it over the years.

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12-16-2013, 11:11 AM
  #613
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Mike Green has led the NHL in goals by a Dman 3 x in his carreer, is a 2 time 1st team all star and Norris runner up.

I think he's built up far more equity than Troy Brouwer. I like Brouwer alot but I never said anything other than his goal scoring year last year was an abberation.

Mike Green is the best goal scoring defenseman in the league since he became a full time starter.

I don't see how they compare really or what point you are trying to make
He's had one good 20 game offensive stretch in the past 250 or so NHL games. Same as Troy Brouwer.

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12-16-2013, 11:14 AM
  #614
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He's had one good 20 game offensive stretch in the past 250 or so NHL games. Same as Troy Brouwer.
why are comparing brouwer and green. if anything your making green look better.

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Old
12-16-2013, 11:16 AM
  #615
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There are some here that obviously don't like Laich or Brouwer and would like to see them go. I'm not in those camps. But all that being said, how Erat escapes anyone's wrath is a mystery to me. The guy has not delivered, not even during the shootout. He's been given his opportunities now, so he needs to shut up and put up.
Erat is not above criticism. You are right, he's being given more opportunity and needs to produce. Laich, Brouwer, and Erat are all being paid decent money to not score or do anything of significance.

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12-16-2013, 11:21 AM
  #616
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Is +/- a valid stat first off? If it is important then I haven't seen anyone do anything but discredit it over the years.
When it is in either extreme it can have some importance.

Edit: But in general, I don't think it is a great stat.

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12-16-2013, 11:37 AM
  #617
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We can improve the roster by sending Erskine to the OHL, yes not even the AHL. He makes Schultz look like a Norris Trophy candidate.

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Old
12-16-2013, 11:49 AM
  #618
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Originally Posted by itsjustsurvival View Post
When it is in either extreme it can have some importance.

Edit: But in general, I don't think it is a great stat.
Not so sure about that. We can bring up the obvious example Jeff Schultz and end this discussion if you look at it that way.

I just feel that some people (not you in particular) use this stat when its convenient for them to prove their point yet turn around and completely dismiss it when it doesn't validate another point they try to make.

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12-16-2013, 12:09 PM
  #619
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Not so sure about that. We can bring up the obvious example Jeff Schultz and end this discussion if you look at it that way.

I just feel that some people (not you in particular) use this stat when its convenient for them to prove their point yet turn around and completely dismiss it when it doesn't validate another point they try to make.
+/- is a quintet stat, so combining it actually makes a bit of sense.

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Old
12-16-2013, 01:07 PM
  #620
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Is +/- a valid stat first off? If it is important then I haven't seen anyone do anything but discredit it over the years.
Using it randomly and out of context, no. When three players who play together 95% of the time, are a combined -21, it probably says something.

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Old
12-16-2013, 01:11 PM
  #621
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Not so sure about that. We can bring up the obvious example Jeff Schultz and end this discussion if you look at it that way.

I just feel that some people (not you in particular) use this stat when its convenient for them to prove their point yet turn around and completely dismiss it when it doesn't validate another point they try to make.
Plus/minus is okay to use in context. Jeff Schultz solely benefited from playing on the most offensively dominant line in the NHL in 2009-10. He sucks but that line scored so often and fast, his suck couldn't overcome how good they were so we knew his +50 or whatever didn't signify his quality.

The eye test and stats lead me to believe that the top line right now is a goal against waiting to happen.

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Old
12-16-2013, 01:36 PM
  #622
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Not so sure about that. We can bring up the obvious example Jeff Schultz and end this discussion if you look at it that way.

I just feel that some people (not you in particular) use this stat when its convenient for them to prove their point yet turn around and completely dismiss it when it doesn't validate another point they try to make.
But in the case of our first line's defensive capabilities, the plus/minus rating happens to match up perfectly with the eyeball test.

I have never seen a line get trapped in its own end more reliably and severely in my life. Once the other team gets possession in our zone, 90-19-8 seem constitutionally unable to take it back. I white-knuckle it every time they're on the ice in a close game.

As annoying as Florida's former player/current broadcaster Bill Lindsay was on the subject, i think he spoke some truth when he said he used to lick his chops playing against a line like that because they were much easier to score against.

I don't know who would be good replacement for 90 on top line, but i would love to see oates try someone different there for a game or two.

In other news, Grabo may well be back in action Tues, so it might be irrelevant. But i think i saw a tweet or post about erat skating with 16 and 20 at practice today. If so, that's good news IMO. I would definitely rather see erat on 2nd line instead of beagle. Erat hasn't scored a goal this year, but he is much better at possessing puck and passing it.

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Old
12-16-2013, 01:44 PM
  #623
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The latter, and it's only a small portion of the fanbase.
I don't think it's that small. He's not at the front of the list though.

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Old
12-16-2013, 01:48 PM
  #624
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I don't think it's that small. He's not at the front of the list though.
Lots and lots of red 21's at VC. I'd guess it's the third most popular jersey.

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Old
12-16-2013, 02:00 PM
  #625
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Lots and lots of red 21's at VC. I'd guess it's the third most popular jersey.
I'd put him 4th at best, behind 8, 19, and 52. The masses love sound bytes and good samaritan stories. 21 has the market cornered on those. He's also the longest tenured Cap, I believe. He's worn everyone down.

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