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Dustin Byfuglien (aka Buff) for Norris (sorta)

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Old
11-27-2013, 03:43 PM
  #1
Flames101
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Dustin Byfuglien (aka Buff) for Norris (sorta)

1/4 Season report, some of the front runner for the Norris as suggested by TSN are PK Subban and Erik Karlsson. As of today, here is the stat line

Goals Ass P +/- Pgoals S% Toi
Karlsson 7 17 24 2 1 9.9 27:47
Subban 3 17 20 7 2 3.8 24.50
Byfuglien 6 15 21 -5 4 6.9 26.40

Now to dismiss the title, I do not think that Buff is anywhere near a Norris, but to put him outside the conversation if these two guys are being considered is asinine. As a Canadian I watch a ton of all three of these teams, and not to put it on a ladder, neither Subbans or Karlssons contributions to their teams overshadow Buff's contributions. Some say he makes untimely rushes. That is coaching not player. He is asked to pitch in more offensively due to Winnipeg's lack of scoring. Where all of these players have their own skill set, Buffs skill set is his physical side. He does not lose a corner battle and is agrueably one of the top 10 defenders in the league in regards to strength.

Where this is all coming from is every day while eating my sandwich at lunch i look at these ridiculous trade proposals regarding him, and certain individuals saying they would want nothing to do with him. 5.2 Million for 3 more years for a top 3 scoring in the league D which would slot in 1-2 on almost any NHL team. People have said he is fat, lazy does not watch the Jets play, and if they did would value him a ton higher then he is being given credit.

To conclude, I am tired of reading proposals and had far to much free time today, and wanted to try and dispel ideas that Buff is not the player us Winnipegers believe he is. To further the Norris comment, none of these guys should be in the conversation. That award should be held for the Suters, Charas and guys that are true shut down guys.
I would like to hear other thoughts on this player. Please keep it civil, calling him fat and lazy will go far towards showing your own ignorance.

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11-27-2013, 03:53 PM
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John Stamos
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He's Buff and he's got the Stuff

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Old
11-27-2013, 03:55 PM
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LeTigre
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Of the aforementioned 3, Subban is playing the best all around hockey and is absolutely in the Norris mix. Karlsson has stretches of pure dominance punctuated by defensive lapses; something he'll have to shore up to be truly in the conversation by seasons end. And Byfuglien, well, he sorta just wings it out there. I'll explain.

To be fair to him, he shoots a ton, and they've been going in as of late. He's a weapon on the point, and is good at puck retrievals and breakouts. And like Karlsson, he eats minutes out there.

But unlike Karlsson, he can't be doing the minute long even strength shift (not that Karlsson should either, until he fully regains his stride). When Byfuglien gets fatigued, he has cement around his ankles, and he doesn't have the awareness to be effective when tired. Which is frequently, because he's essentially a rover at even strength and doesn't shift change when he should.

If he would simply limit his shift length, he'd be a much more responsible player IMO.

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11-27-2013, 04:00 PM
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Old
11-27-2013, 04:01 PM
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Doesn't pass the eye test game to game. Inconsistent overrated player.

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Old
11-27-2013, 04:02 PM
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Flames101
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Great post. Where my question comes in is then why is he out there so long. You would have to think the coach is giving him to the go ahead to stretch his shift, and its not like Winnipeg is at a lack of quality defenders.
Also not to argue your point, but of the 10 plus Habs games i have watched this season, to me Subban is also prone to defensive lapses. Just my observation

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeTigre View Post
Of the aforementioned 3, Subban is playing the best all around hockey and is absolutely in the Norris mix. Karlsson has stretches of pure dominance punctuated by defensive lapses; something he'll have to shore up to be truly in the conversation by seasons end. And Byfuglien, well, he sorta just wings it out there. I'll explain.

To be fair to him, he shoots a ton, and they've been going in as of late. He's a weapon on the point, and is good at puck retrievals and breakouts. And like Karlsson, he eats minutes out there.

But unlike Karlsson, he can't be doing the minute long even strength shift (not that Karlsson should either, until he fully regains his stride). When Byfuglien gets fatigued, he has cement around his ankles, and he doesn't have the awareness to be effective when tired. Which is frequently, because he's essentially a rover at even strength and doesn't shift change when he should.

If he would simply limit his shift length, he'd be a much more responsible player IMO.

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11-27-2013, 04:05 PM
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Flair Hay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeTigre View Post
Of the aforementioned 3, Subban is playing the best all around hockey and is absolutely in the Norris mix. Karlsson has stretches of pure dominance punctuated by defensive lapses; something he'll have to shore up to be truly in the conversation by seasons end. And Byfuglien, well, he sorta just wings it out there. I'll explain.

To be fair to him, he shoots a ton, and they've been going in as of late. He's a weapon on the point, and is good at puck retrievals and breakouts. And like Karlsson, he eats minutes out there.

But unlike Karlsson, he can't be doing the minute long even strength shift (not that Karlsson should either, until he fully regains his stride). When Byfuglien gets fatigued, he has cement around his ankles, and he doesn't have the awareness to be effective when tired. Which is frequently, because he's essentially a rover at even strength and doesn't shift change when he should.

If he would simply limit his shift length, he'd be a much more responsible player IMO.
A very good point about shift length. Subban is probably at another level because of his athleticism, but they are very similar players with somewhat comparable results.

It is good for a chuckle when someone says they want nothing to do with him. I don't know if I'd trade a fortune to acquire an off and on guy like Buff either. But when he has these stretches like he has the past dozen games, he is literally a top 10 defenseman in the NHL.

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Old
11-27-2013, 04:32 PM
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What about Keith?

He has 20 points, leads all D in assists, and is better defensively than those 3.

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11-27-2013, 04:37 PM
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If these were the finalists for the Norris the award is truly broken. That said, unlike Subban Buff is actually killing penalties so.....

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11-27-2013, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSerious View Post
What about Keith?

He has 20 points, leads all D in assists, and is better defensively than those 3.
What about Phaneuf?

He plays for the team I cheer for, and has like more blocks and a better +- than Karlsson, Subban and Keith. And he plays for the team I cheer for.

In other words, vote for a player from your favourite team everybody!

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11-27-2013, 05:06 PM
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LeTigre
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Originally Posted by Flames101 View Post
Great post. Where my question comes in is then why is he out there so long. You would have to think the coach is giving him to the go ahead to stretch his shift, and its not like Winnipeg is at a lack of quality defenders.
Also not to argue your point, but of the 10 plus Habs games i have watched this season, to me Subban is also prone to defensive lapses. Just my observation
Perhaps because Noel is in the risk-reward part of his tenure in Winnipeg? He's trying to catch lightning in a bottle with Byfuglien, who has the highest offensive ceiling of all the blueliners?

I'm an Enstrom and Clitsome supporter, and Bogo has vast potential as well. Even Redmond can move the puck. It's baffling why Noel green-lights Byfuglien, to be honest. Again, shorter shifts and more situational ice-time adjustments could create a consistently dominant defenseman out of him.

As for Subban, he's been the most defensively responsible of the three aforementioned, but of course he is prone to issues like over-pursuit and positioning. As an Ottawa fan that watches more Karlsson, but a fair amount of Subban and Byfuglien, I'll have to reiterate that Subban has been the toughest to play against this season.

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11-27-2013, 05:12 PM
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All I know is Byfuglien should be a lock for team USA. I hope Poile sees it.

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Old
11-27-2013, 05:21 PM
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Flames101
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Again great points.
I am by no means going to pull homer here and say his trade value would be that of Karlsson and Subban, but where do you think it should be assessed?




Quote:
Originally Posted by LeTigre View Post
Perhaps because Noel is in the risk-reward part of his tenure in Winnipeg? He's trying to catch lightning in a bottle with Byfuglien, who has the highest offensive ceiling of all the blueliners?

I'm an Enstrom and Clitsome supporter, and Bogo has vast potential as well. Even Redmond can move the puck. It's baffling why Noel green-lights Byfuglien, to be honest. Again, shorter shifts and more situational ice-time adjustments could create a consistently dominant defenseman out of him.

As for Subban, he's been the most defensively responsible of the three aforementioned, but of course he is prone to issues like over-pursuit and positioning. As an Ottawa fan that watches more Karlsson, but a fair amount of Subban and Byfuglien, I'll have to reiterate that Subban has been the toughest to play against this season.

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11-27-2013, 05:21 PM
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Larry Hoover
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A classic case of looking at the numbers and not actually watching the game. Karlsson and Byfuglien absolutely do not belong in the Norris discussion this season. As much as it pains me to say this as I'm far from a Subban/Habs fan, he does deserve to be there...but at the 1/4 mark of the season I don't think he's top 3.

OEL, Pietrangelo and Keith are the top 3 right now IMO with honourable mentions to Subban & Suter.

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11-27-2013, 06:05 PM
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LeTigre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames101 View Post
Again great points.
I am by no means going to pull homer here and say his trade value would be that of Karlsson and Subban, but where do you think it should be assessed?
It's tough to say. He'd be a perfect PP specialist and second pairing guy on a contender. What do you give up for a PP specialist and second pairing guy making market value for another 2.5 years? 1st round pick and another asset, I'd say.

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11-27-2013, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrozenJagrt View Post
What about Phaneuf?

He plays for the team I cheer for, and has like more blocks and a better +- than Karlsson, Subban and Keith. And he plays for the team I cheer for.

In other words, vote for a player from your favourite team everybody!
These types of posts honestly piss me off. So basically what you're saying is that Keith, a former Norris winner himself, has no part in the discussion as he is posting some of the best numbers and playing some of the best defense of his career?

Phaneuf wishes he was half the player Keith is by the way.

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11-27-2013, 06:34 PM
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I honestly couldn't care less about the Norris anymore with the way it's awarded now. If he gets the most points, why not.

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11-27-2013, 06:35 PM
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I honestly couldn't care less about the Norris anymore with the way it's awarded now. If he gets the most points, why not.
Yeah, it is starting to become a bit of a joke (as far as required credentials go).

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11-27-2013, 06:39 PM
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If these were the finalists for the Norris the award is truly broken. That said, unlike Subban Buff is actually killing penalties so.....
Everyone and their mother that follows the Habs agrees that Subban should be killing penalties. If this is what you have to resort to to discredit him as a player your argument is truly broken.

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11-27-2013, 06:53 PM
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I honestly couldn't care less about the Norris anymore with the way it's awarded now. If he gets the most points, why not.
As opposed to the great two year period when they bothered to give it two one D-man two years in a row who wasn't in the top 10 for points?

Those were a good two years, but damn, you gotta be pretty old.

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11-27-2013, 07:00 PM
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Doesn't pass the eye test game to game. Inconsistent overrated player.
Yeah totally overrated and inconsistent. Nice points to back yourself up. Move along.

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11-27-2013, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trap Jesus View Post
I honestly couldn't care less about the Norris anymore with the way it's awarded now. If he gets the most points, why not.


Still mad that Subban won last year, aren't you?

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Old
11-27-2013, 07:13 PM
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Flames101
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Actually, since the Jets came back to Winnipeg I literally have watched every game, home and away. I was using TSN's point of view on where they saw the Norris voting, and by the candidates they selected using their criteria Byfuglien belongs in that discussion. If you read my entire post, I stated that he doesn't belong there and that I believe this trophy should be held out for the best all around Dman.

A classic case of not reading the entire post and discrediting someone to prove their own point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Hoover View Post
A classic case of looking at the numbers and not actually watching the game. Karlsson and Byfuglien absolutely do not belong in the Norris discussion this season. As much as it pains me to say this as I'm far from a Subban/Habs fan, he does deserve to be there...but at the 1/4 mark of the season I don't think he's top 3.

OEL, Pietrangelo and Keith are the top 3 right now IMO with honourable mentions to Subban & Suter.

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11-27-2013, 07:15 PM
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These types of posts honestly piss me off. So basically what you're saying is that Keith, a former Norris winner himself, has no part in the discussion as he is posting some of the best numbers and playing some of the best defense of his career?

Phaneuf wishes he was half the player Keith is by the way.
Keith has put up about as quiet a top-3-at-his-position season as I've seen in the NHL in quite a while.

I mean... Byfuglien?
Really?

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11-27-2013, 07:16 PM
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Richard F Schiller
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Karlsson's got this.

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