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Old
11-27-2013, 08:32 PM
  #1
topscot78
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Blow it up?

Before everyone goes crazy......here me out.

Frustrating inconsistency, good group of young players without greatness to build on (Toews, Stankos, Crosby, Malkin, Ovi, Tavares)

Veteran "leadership", Gabby added as a "scorer", Horton will add a physical presence, and we have played well in some games or for some portions of games......

....but in the grander scheme of things it's not working.

Has the time come to truly do what perhaps should have been done before and retool properly to compete for years?

Trade RJ for whatever is available, Wiz can go too (even if we need to retain some salary), Anisimov May net a nice return, Gaborik at the deadline for a pick (best case 1st, would hope worst case 2nd round) as examples

We have good players but given the lack of top end talent we are playing some players on the first or second line who would be 3rd or 4th liners of a top team.

My view.......

Get a plan together for this draft and the next, ideally a top 3-5 pick this year. (Ekblad)

Next year sucks so McDavid is a possibility. (1C) with Joey as a top quality 2C

Add Jenner, Cam, Calvert, Erixon, Prout, Rychel, Wennberg, Murray and I think you have the makings of something special with youth at the core.

Ekblad and Murray as top pair D would be among the best in the league

Strong on the wings and top unquestionable quality centers on the top 2 lines.

Want thoughts from you guys but another year of poor and inconsistent performance with an awesome run mid to late season that just does to screw ourselves out of a top pick but not enough to make the playoffs.

Not jumping off cliff just a suggestion we stop trying to build on the existing structure which is flawed and strip back to the frame and rebuild the right way - I think JD and Jarmo have the smarts to do it right.

Something has to change or I fear we are doomed to perennial mediocrity.

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Old
11-27-2013, 08:34 PM
  #2
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Youngest team in the league. Yeah lets blow it up, we need to get younger.

What you suggested (trading Wiz, RJ, and Gaborik) isn't blowing it up. Blowing it up would be dealing those guys + Bobrovsky + Johnson. Bascially everyone but Johansen and Murray, the young guys.

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Old
11-27-2013, 08:39 PM
  #3
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We're already well mired in a rebuild, and have one of the youngest rosters in the league. At the start of the night, we were 3 points out of a playoff spot. We have three first round picks in juniors, and very solid depth at every prospect position. So I ask you: in all of these trades we're supposed to make, who plays in the NHL? Who provides a role model for these young first round picks?

You're taking the stance of "this team sucks start over" ... I'll take the stance of growing pains with a lot of man games lost to injury. We have some guys that can actually provide some role model type situations for the young guys coming up, and will be competitive in a year or two. Does it suck to see them lose? Yes, but Jarmo hasn't even had a full year with the team. It takes time.

Rushing the prospects to the NHL with no support or reason to fight for a spot is exactly what's been wrong with this franchise since inception. Keep the grinders and gritty players around; make the kids work for their spots and work to keep their spots.

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Old
11-27-2013, 08:45 PM
  #4
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Was against trading Gabby, but definitely on that bandwagon now. Trade JMFJ as well. Keep Wiz - I don't understand the hate for the guy. Umberger is untradeable, we've established that numerous times. Nikitin should be packing his bags already. Fire Richards in the offseason. Start looking at serious backup goalies - guys that could also be legit starters (remember, next year is a contract year for Bob so we need to make a decision there, too.) Not sure if we'll make a splash in free agency again, but we need at least two scoring forwards (non grinders). Grab a 5th round pick for Letestu. Buy out Boll. Draft in the 7-10 range for a guy who won't have any discernible impact on the future of the team.

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Old
11-27-2013, 08:46 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
We're already well mired in a rebuild, and have one of the youngest rosters in the league. At the start of the night, we were 3 points out of a playoff spot. We have three first round picks in juniors, and very solid depth at every prospect position. So I ask you: in all of these trades we're supposed to make, who plays in the NHL? Who provides a role model for these young first round picks?

You're taking the stance of "this team sucks start over" ... I'll take the stance of growing pains with a lot of man games lost to injury. We have some guys that can actually provide some role model type situations for the young guys coming up, and will be competitive in a year or two. Does it suck to see them lose? Yes, but Jarmo hasn't even had a full year with the team. It takes time.

Rushing the prospects to the NHL with no support or reason to fight for a spot is exactly what's been wrong with this franchise since inception. Keep the grinders and gritty players around; make the kids work for their spots and work to keep their spots.
Great post.

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Old
11-27-2013, 08:46 PM
  #6
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Not against seeing JMFJ.

bob is on a 2 year deal and if we have talent in the shape of Dansk coming through that we believe can be the guy then Bob could net a nice return.

Is the belief really that we have the right guys in the room currently? And I include Richards in that question.

It's not a simple as "we need to name a captain" and I doubt yet another coaching change is the complete answer.

Looking for thoughts but I just don't see building on what we have. I would prefer taking a step backward to take two forward.

We keep tweaking a few things every year and never getting the result we expect.

At some point there has to be a realization that we are not one or two pieces away from being competitive.

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Old
11-27-2013, 08:47 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJAnimosity View Post
Was against trading Gabby, but definitely on that bandwagon now. Trade JMFJ as well. Keep Wiz - I don't understand the hate for the guy. Umberger is untradeable, we've established that numerous times. Nikitin should be packing his bags already. Fire Richards in the offseason. Start looking at serious backup goalies - guys that could also be legit starters (remember, next year is a contract year for Bob so we need to make a decision there, too.) Not sure if we'll make a splash in free agency again, but we need at least two scoring forwards (non grinders). Grab a 5th round pick for Letestu. Buy out Boll. Draft in the 7-10 range for a guy who won't have any discernible impact on the future of the team.
Then Jarmo can write a book about how he was the shortest tenured GM in CBJ history.

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Old
11-27-2013, 08:55 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
You're taking the stance of "this team sucks start over" ... I'll take the stance of growing pains with a lot of man games lost to injury. We have some guys that can actually provide some role model type situations for the young guys coming up, and will be competitive in a year or two. Does it suck to see them lose? Yes, but Jarmo hasn't even had a full year with the team. It takes time.
THe problem with this line of thinking is that Jarmo may never have a "full year" with this team as constructed. Are you banking on the long-term health of both Gaborik and Horton? Lets face it, by the time Horton plays a competitive game this season, the CBJ will likely already be done like dinner. The chances of Gaborik being re-signed are dwindling by the day.

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Old
11-27-2013, 08:57 PM
  #9
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It's not the talent, it's the performance.

Lack of game-changers.
Lack of leadership.
Lack of fire.

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Old
11-27-2013, 08:58 PM
  #10
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This club needs leadership. And I'm talking more about the on-ice leadership than the coaching.

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Old
11-27-2013, 08:58 PM
  #11
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Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
It's not the talent, it's the performance.
It's not the bricks, it's the mortar.

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Old
11-27-2013, 09:02 PM
  #12
Sore Loser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJAnimosity View Post
THe problem with this line of thinking is that Jarmo may never have a "full year" with this team as constructed. Are you banking on the long-term health of both Gaborik and Horton? Lets face it, by the time Horton plays a competitive game this season, the CBJ will likely already be done like dinner. The chances of Gaborik being re-signed are dwindling by the day.
So you fire a guy based on one trade and one signing? If that were the case, we would have seen several GMs come and go by now.

The Gaborik trade was designed to do exactly what it has done. It provided us with a spark down the stretch that nearly saw us get into the playoffs, and has bought us time to allow some of the younger players to develop. I saw (and still see) it as nothing more than a patchwork move, while at the same time moving some guys who weren't improving in their roles with this club. I call that deal a win/win for both teams ... otherwise, would Ryan Johansen have been plunged into a top line role too soon and thus not becoming the dominant two-way player we're beginning to see? Certainly, the matchups against him - and every other player on the roster - would be much heavier.

As for the Horton signing, you're looking at it with blinders on. Basing a signing of one of the top power forwards in the world on a couple of months of shoulder surgery is awful short sighted. This signing is the one designed to bring us a top line forward for several years to come. Gaborik is the stop-leak, Horton is the fix. Who cares if we're out of the playoff mix by the time he comes back? We have him for the next half decade after that, and he will be the support that allows the Wennbergs, Rychels, Danos, and players to be drafted, time to develop.

I like where the franchise is headed, personally. I love what Scott Howson left for Jarmo Kekalainen, and I like most of the moves Jarmo has made so far. We all knew the playoffs were a stretch for us this year, and that it's about the future. Why panic now?

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Old
11-27-2013, 09:03 PM
  #13
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Is it not easier just to rebuild the wall?

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Old
11-27-2013, 09:04 PM
  #14
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
So you fire a guy based on one trade and one signing? If that were the case, we would have seen several GMs come and go by now.

The Gaborik trade was designed to do exactly what it has done. It provided us with a spark down the stretch that nearly saw us get into the playoffs, and has bought us time to allow some of the younger players to develop. I saw (and still see) it as nothing more than a patchwork move, while at the same time moving some guys who weren't improving in their roles with this club. I call that deal a win/win for both teams ... otherwise, would Ryan Johansen have been plunged into a top line role too soon and thus not becoming the dominant two-way player we're beginning to see? Certainly, the matchups against him - and every other player on the roster - would be much heavier.

As for the Horton signing, you're looking at it with blinders on. Basing a signing of one of the top power forwards in the world on a couple of months of shoulder surgery is awful short sighted. This signing is the one designed to bring us a top line forward for several years to come. Gaborik is the stop-leak, Horton is the fix. Who cares if we're out of the playoff mix by the time he comes back? We have him for the next half decade after that, and he will be the support that allows the Wennbergs, Rychels, Danos, and players to be drafted, time to develop.

I like where the franchise is headed, personally. I love what Scott Howson left for Jarmo Kekalainen, and I like most of the moves Jarmo has made so far. We all knew the playoffs were a stretch for us this year, and that it's about the future. Why panic now?
Huh? Where did I say anything about firing Jarmo?

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Old
11-27-2013, 09:44 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
We're already well mired in a rebuild, and have one of the youngest rosters in the league. At the start of the night, we were 3 points out of a playoff spot. We have three first round picks in juniors, and very solid depth at every prospect position. So I ask you: in all of these trades we're supposed to make, who plays in the NHL? Who provides a role model for these young first round picks?

You're taking the stance of "this team sucks start over" ... I'll take the stance of growing pains with a lot of man games lost to injury. We have some guys that can actually provide some role model type situations for the young guys coming up, and will be competitive in a year or two. Does it suck to see them lose? Yes, but Jarmo hasn't even had a full year with the team. It takes time.

Rushing the prospects to the NHL with no support or reason to fight for a spot is exactly what's been wrong with this franchise since inception. Keep the grinders and gritty players around; make the kids work for their spots and work to keep their spots.
Bingo.

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Old
11-27-2013, 10:29 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by DJAnimosity View Post
Was against trading Gabby, but definitely on that bandwagon now. Trade JMFJ as well. Keep Wiz - I don't understand the hate for the guy. Umberger is untradeable, we've established that numerous times. Nikitin should be packing his bags already. Fire Richards in the offseason. Start looking at serious backup goalies - guys that could also be legit starters (remember, next year is a contract year for Bob so we need to make a decision there, too.) Not sure if we'll make a splash in free agency again, but we need at least two scoring forwards (non grinders). Grab a 5th round pick for Letestu. Buy out Boll. Draft in the 7-10 range for a guy who won't have any discernible impact on the future of the team.
Is it even allowed to buy out a guy before his signed contract extension even kicks in? That sounds like the type of thing Jay Feaster would do without actually checking first, then being shocked with whatever the ruling is.

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Old
11-27-2013, 10:34 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJAnimosity View Post
Huh? Where did I say anything about firing Jarmo?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJAnimosity View Post
THe problem with this line of thinking is that Jarmo may never have a "full year" with this team as constructed.
My mistake, I guess? I took this as perhaps thinking of firing him.

"As constructed" can be construed in various ways ... there's a huge difference from dealing Marian Gaborik at the deadline (or maybe making some other move(s))and blowing up the entire roster, though. One of those things may not be a bad idea ... the other is a head scratcher.

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11-27-2013, 10:35 PM
  #18
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Is it even allowed to buy out a guy before his signed contract extension even kicks in? That sounds like the type of thing Jay Feaster would do without actually checking first, then being shocked with whatever the ruling is.
This made me laugh...

...mainly because it's true.

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11-27-2013, 10:37 PM
  #19
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The Gaborik deal was not failure and will likely not be one. The club got rid of Dorsett and Brassard and a spare defenseman (as good as he is). They get to kick the tires on Gaborik. If he plays well, they re-sign him. If he doesn't, or is oft-injured, he can be traded at the deadline and the CBJ have $7 million to go shopping with in the off-season.

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Old
11-27-2013, 10:51 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leesmith View Post
The Gaborik deal was not failure and will likely not be one. The club got rid of Dorsett and Brassard and a spare defenseman (as good as he is). They get to kick the tires on Gaborik. If he plays well, they re-sign him. If he doesn't, or is oft-injured, he can be traded at the deadline and the CBJ have $7 million to go shopping with in the off-season.
Bingo.

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11-27-2013, 11:14 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leesmith View Post
The Gaborik deal was not failure and will likely not be one. The club got rid of Dorsett and Brassard and a spare defenseman (as good as he is). They get to kick the tires on Gaborik. If he plays well, they re-sign him. If he doesn't, or is oft-injured, he can be traded at the deadline and the CBJ have $7 million to go shopping with in the off-season.
Isn't it fair to say that said spare defenseman might be a better player than Savard, Prout and Erixon ?

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Old
11-27-2013, 11:25 PM
  #22
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First we rushed Murray and now everyone should be traded, just another week on the Columbus board
I want Richards out and wouldn't be against possibly trading Gaborik and Johnson but we'd need players and picks. They would be for the future trades which would make us worse short term and cause people yet again to say time for some trades. It's a vicious cycle, let's just accept the growing pains of being the youngest team in the league and not have an Edmonton type rebuild.
We have 3 guys drafted in the 1st round this past year that all could be top 6 guys, a few guys like Bjorkstrand, Soberg and Zaar among others that could be boom or bust type guys. On the backend everyone knows what we have and whats in the AHL but we also have a guy that I'm more excited about then anyone besides maybe Sore Loser in Heatherington. Very high chance the guy becomes a top-4 very good shut down guy that can move the puck better then most expect. In goal we have a few guys to look at but Dansk and Forsberg seem to be the 2 with the most legitimate chance of being an NHL goalie.
Like most people who have commented on this I say stay on track and just continue on the path we are headed.

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Old
11-27-2013, 11:27 PM
  #23
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Isn't it fair to say that said spare defenseman might be a better player than Savard, Prout and Erixon ?
Certainly. Is it fair to say that said spare defenseman might not have ever come close to that potential with this franchise?

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11-27-2013, 11:27 PM
  #24
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Isn't it fair to say that said spare defenseman might be a better player than Savard, Prout and Erixon ?
Said spare defenseman is down to 15 minutes a night and not playing his greatest hockey this year

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Old
11-27-2013, 11:59 PM
  #25
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It's not the talent, it's the performance.

Lack of game-changers.
Lack of leadership.
Lack of fire.
Lack of FT.

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