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sign + trade proposal involving nieds + jovo

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07-26-2005, 05:49 PM
  #1
deathbear
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sign + trade proposal involving nieds + jovo

alright, so burke has made it clear that he's willing to part with his pick for the right price.

and it's no secret new jersey's best d-man is interested in vancouver.

however, it's also no secret vancouver simply can't retain all their other pieces of the puzzle if they were to sign niedermayer.

so how about this?

we package jovanovski off with someone/something to anaheim for the right to pick second overall this year.

we unload his salary (what is it, anyway?), and use that to free up space for scott. scott, in my opinion, while not as physical, is an obvious improvement over jovanovski.

what do you think? could this be workable?

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07-26-2005, 05:52 PM
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Peter Griffin
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So the Canucks trade Jovo prior to the draft on Saturday in hopes of signing Niedermayer August 1st. So August 1st rolls around and Niedermayer decides Vancouver's offer isn't good enough and signs elsewhere. The Canucks are now without Jovo and Niedermayer. I'd pass on taking that risk...

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07-26-2005, 06:01 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
The Canucks are now without Jovo and Niedermayer. I'd pass on taking that risk...
Me too.

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07-26-2005, 06:11 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
So the Canucks trade Jovo prior to the draft on Saturday in hopes of signing Niedermayer August 1st. So August 1st rolls around and Niedermayer decides Vancouver's offer isn't good enough and signs elsewhere. The Canucks are now without Jovo and Niedermayer. I'd pass on taking that risk...
How about Jovanovski and the 10th to Anaheim for the 2nd and Rob Niedermayer (or his rights, or whatever, I can't remember what his FA status is).

Might sweeten the pot a bit for Scotty. Not a guarantee, but still...

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07-26-2005, 06:11 PM
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If we sign Niedermayer, and only then would I think of dealing Jovo.. for a gritty winger/good prospect.

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07-26-2005, 06:19 PM
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of course there's going to be risks. every single transaction will be a risk, you can't avoid it.

but if we wanted niedermayer, we could get him. it's painfully obvious he wants to come here.

thus, the outlined risk is in my opinion, minimalized.

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07-26-2005, 06:19 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colonel_korn
How about Jovanovski and the 10th to Anaheim for the 2nd and Rob Niedermayer (or his rights, or whatever, I can't remember what his FA status is).

Might sweeten the pot a bit for Scotty. Not a guarantee, but still...
I have to agree with this. The idea of:

Jovo + 10th Overall

for

R.Niedermayer + 2nd Overall

Was mentioned on the trade board and I see this as signifigantly lowering the risk involved in the transaction. This is assuming Burke is willing to throw Rob in with the 2nd (but I mean, how high can Rob Niedermayers trade value be?). I can't see any way that Scott doesn't sign here if we bring in Rob and open up the salary room to accomodate him. Maybe I'm just less risk averse then some people, but I would probably do the above trade even before August 1. We pickup the Niedermayer brothers and Jack Johnson, plus maintain enough salary space to most likely look at some additional UFA pickups.

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07-26-2005, 06:22 PM
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yeah, i agree.

let's forward this to nonis immediately.

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07-26-2005, 08:12 PM
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Did anyone else hear that Burke was up in Cranny trying to talk Rob into signing a long term deal? If this is true, perhaps Burke is trying to get both brothers to sign long term with the Ducks. It would certainly be a shrewd move... either that, or with Rob signed he could offer him to the Nucks in a trade for one of the players he favours from the team.

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07-26-2005, 08:18 PM
  #10
Peter Griffin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quat
Did anyone else hear that Burke was up in Cranny trying to talk Rob into signing a long term deal? If this is true, perhaps Burke is trying to get both brothers to sign long term with the Ducks. It would certainly be a shrewd move... either that, or with Rob signed he could offer him to the Nucks in a trade for one of the players he favours from the team.
Sounds like a very Burke-esque move, he's all about maximizing his players' values. If Burke was able to sign Rob Niedermayer long term, say 3 years at a decent salary, under $1.2 mil per, I'd be interested in trading for him, if the price is right. I like Rob and think he's a solid player, but at his current QO of just under $1.6 mil, he's too expensive for what he brings to the table. I can't see Burke signing him for anything he doesn't think is fair value though, he won't overpay to keep Rob IMO. That said, Rob's guranteed UFA next off season if he wants it, all he has to do is sign a one year deal, or accept the Ducks QO if they give him one, otherwise he'd be a UFA this offseason. If the Niedermayer's want to play together, I think it will be Rob going to where Scott is, not the other way around.

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07-26-2005, 10:22 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
So the Canucks trade Jovo prior to the draft on Saturday in hopes of signing Niedermayer August 1st. So August 1st rolls around and Niedermayer decides Vancouver's offer isn't good enough and signs elsewhere. The Canucks are now without Jovo and Niedermayer. I'd pass on taking that risk...


How'd that be a risk? It's a risk that would never occur. You simply don't make a deal on Jovo unless a deal with Nieds is already in place. Don't give me that naive garbage that they don't negotiate until Aug 1st. If Nieds is coming here, it's already been negotiated. We can't afford to pay him what other teams will offer, so if he's coming here, they've already come to some agreement. I personally love the idead of trading Jovo and some for the 2nd overall pick. Pick up JJ and play him as our 6th dman. With our 10th pick, we co after a scorer, hopefully Skille... Dump Jovo, free up enough money to sign nieds, draft Jack Johnston, draft Jack Skille

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07-26-2005, 10:24 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
Sounds like a very Burke-esque move, he's all about maximizing his players' values. If Burke was able to sign Rob Niedermayer long term, say 3 years at a decent salary, under $1.2 mil per, I'd be interested in trading for him, if the price is right. I like Rob and think he's a solid player, but at his current QO of just under $1.6 mil, he's too expensive for what he brings to the table. I can't see Burke signing him for anything he doesn't think is fair value though, he won't overpay to keep Rob IMO. That said, Rob's guranteed UFA next off season if he wants it, all he has to do is sign a one year deal, or accept the Ducks QO if they give him one, otherwise he'd be a UFA this offseason. If the Niedermayer's want to play together, I think it will be Rob going to where Scott is, not the other way around.
Yup, Burke makes you pay attention because he is outspoken and at times very bright. Like his act of letting everyone know the second round pick is up for grabs... gets tons of exposure from the media all talking about the Ducks and the moves they could/wouldn't do.

I'm guessing there are players on the Nucks roster Burke wants, and they are from all over the roster. Jovo, Bertuzz, Cooke, Chubarov... that kind of range.

Man, these GM's really have their work cut out for them. Very tough couple of months.

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07-26-2005, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BATJAM
How'd that be a risk? It's a risk that would never occur. You simply don't make a deal on Jovo unless a deal with Nieds is already in place. Don't give me that naive garbage that they don't negotiate until Aug 1st. If Nieds is coming here, it's already been negotiated. We can't afford to pay him what other teams will offer, so if he's coming here, they've already come to some agreement. I personally love the idead of trading Jovo and some for the 2nd overall pick. Pick up JJ and play him as our 6th dman. With our 10th pick, we co after a scorer, hopefully Skille... Dump Jovo, free up enough money to sign nieds, draft Jack Johnston, draft Jack Skille
JJ cant play as our sixth dman as he has already commited to playing in the NCAA next year.. Too bad though.. But I really think trading Jovo outright for the 2nd overall pick will do the job! then we will have two top 10 picks + cap room!

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07-26-2005, 10:30 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BATJAM
How'd that be a risk? It's a risk that would never occur. You simply don't make a deal on Jovo unless a deal with Nieds is already in place. Don't give me that naive garbage that they don't negotiate until Aug 1st. If Nieds is coming here, it's already been negotiated. We can't afford to pay him what other teams will offer, so if he's coming here, they've already come to some agreement. I personally love the idead of trading Jovo and some for the 2nd overall pick. Pick up JJ and play him as our 6th dman. With our 10th pick, we co after a scorer, hopefully Skille... Dump Jovo, free up enough money to sign nieds, draft Jack Johnston, draft Jack Skille
Well, that's a huge change for the team... and if you can get Niedermayer and #2 for Jovo, then that's pretty cool. And by Niedermayer, I mean both of them signed with the team.

Of course, the biggest problem with this senario is the huge loss of hitting on the D, and there is no way the Canucks should be thinking of having JJ play in the NHL.

This kind of big movement seems pretty unlikely imo. Nonis will likely be playing it pretty safe, and unless he get's some freakish offers from GM's or agents, I doubt the roster will change all that much.

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07-26-2005, 10:42 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyugs
JJ cant play as our sixth dman as he has already commited to playing in the NCAA next year.. Too bad though.. But I really think trading Jovo outright for the 2nd overall pick will do the job! then we will have two top 10 picks + cap room!
I think Jovo should get you more than just a #2 pick... but perhaps I'm not thinking enough about the "new" NHL. heh.

Honestly, I think Jovo is just maturing now, and his physical game will be really important to the team. Letting him go for a pick, even such a high pick seems crazy to me. Plus, though I agree Niedermayer is a more defensively sound player, he doesn't score tons more points, and certainly doesn't hit. He is better, but he isn't a huuuuuge upgrade over Jovo.

I want them both! lol.

Nonis should be able to ask for and expect JJ, Rob and a low pick. I say JJ, because trading for the #2 pick with Jovo before signing Niedermayer would extremely silly.

Anyhow, very interesting topic.

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07-27-2005, 12:05 AM
  #16
Peter Griffin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BATJAM
How'd that be a risk? It's a risk that would never occur. You simply don't make a deal on Jovo unless a deal with Nieds is already in place. Don't give me that naive garbage that they don't negotiate until Aug 1st.
You don't think it would look fishy if Nonis trades one of his top two defensemen for a prospect and then August 1st signs Niedermayer? I sure as hell do. And you better believe Lou Lam won't let that one get past the NHL's brass. Tampering charges are just too severe for team's to risk it, just ask the St. Louis Blues...

Quote:
If Nieds is coming here, it's already been negotiated. We can't afford to pay him what other teams will offer, so if he's coming here, they've already come to some agreement.
What? Why can't the Canucks and Niedermayer reach an agreement when they and every other team aside from the New Jersey Devils are allowed to talk to Scott? If Scott is interested in signing with the Canucks, he's still going to be interested August 1st when the Canucks are permitted to talk contract with him. Your statement makes no sense.


Quote:
I personally love the idead of trading Jovo and some for the 2nd overall pick. Pick up JJ and play him as our 6th dman. With our 10th pick, we co after a scorer, hopefully Skille... Dump Jovo, free up enough money to sign nieds, draft Jack Johnston, draft Jack Skille
I like it as well, but until Niedermayer is signed and in a Canucks' jersey, Jovo can't be traded, way too risky.

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07-27-2005, 12:15 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deathbear
yeah, i agree.

let's forward this to nonis immediately.
Looks like somebody is reading this thread! This is from a post in a thread on the HF Ducks board about trading the second pick:

Quote:
Before I go, I just got wind a rumour from Vancouver. Apparently Anahiem and Vancouver are talking. The deal would be Ed Jovanovski and the 10th overall pick for the 2nd overall pick and an unidentified player. More later if anything else comes out...
http://***********.blogspot.com/

I have no idea how trustworthy that site is, but I'd be willing to bet the house on "not very".

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07-27-2005, 12:58 AM
  #18
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Originally Posted by StickShift
Looks like somebody is reading this thread! This is from a post in a thread on the HF Ducks board about trading the second pick:



http://***********.blogspot.com/

I have no idea how trustworthy that site is, but I'd be willing to bet the house on "not very".
wow.

well, to be honest, if i were a gm i'd check out these boards from time to time to see what people have to say. i mean, there are occassions when proposals actually make sense.

i'd like to think this is one of them. i don't think i've ever made a proposal before either.

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07-27-2005, 12:58 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quat

Nonis should be able to ask for and expect JJ, Rob and a low pick. I say JJ, because trading for the #2 pick with Jovo before signing Niedermayer would extremely silly.

Anyhow, very interesting topic.
I read on a Ducks rumour board that an offer was floating around that would include:

Jovo + 10th Overall

for

Unidentified Ducks Player + 2nd Overall

Nobody seems to know who the unidentified player might be, but one rumour I heard had it pegged as Corey Perry, which would be HUGE. Ducks fans seem to think it is just Rob Niedermayer, but I dunno if that would be enough return for Jovo + the 10th.

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07-27-2005, 12:59 AM
  #20
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and let's not forget that the ducks are VERY thin on d right now.

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07-27-2005, 01:08 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westcoast
I read on a Ducks rumour board that an offer was floating around that would include:

Jovo + 10th Overall

for

Unidentified Ducks Player + 2nd Overall

Nobody seems to know who the unidentified player might be, but one rumour I heard had it pegged as Corey Perry, which would be HUGE. Ducks fans seem to think it is just Rob Niedermayer, but I dunno if that would be enough return for Jovo + the 10th.
He updated it, and said it'd be a 2nd/3rd line player. I'm very sure that'd be Niedermayer, as them trading for Mike Leclerc doesn't make alot of sense.

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07-27-2005, 01:18 AM
  #22
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If it's Niedermayer who is the other part of the deal, I'd hope Nonis would be getting something small added on, a 3rd round pick or something. I would definitely not want Rob at his QO salary of just under $1.6 mil, but if Nonis could get him to sign for around $1.2 mil or so on a longer term deal, I'd be happy with that. Best case scenario is you have the Sedins' new winger, worst case is you get a very versatile two-way 3rd liner.

Naslund-Morrison-Bertuzzi
D.Sedin-H.Sedin-R.Niedermayer
Cooke-Kesler-Linden
Ruutu-Chubarov-May

Ohlund-Niedermayer
Allen-Salo
Malik-Sopel

Not a bad line-up IMO. If Nonis could get Naslund to sign for around $5 mil and Niedermayer to take around the same that would still leave around $3 mil or so of cap space after all RFA's are signed. That defense starts to look rather soft IMO though. I'd let Malik walk via UFA, and look for a tougher replacement either through UFA or trade.

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07-27-2005, 01:29 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deathbear
and let's not forget that the ducks are VERY thin on d right now.
Burke has two angles to play: either he signs both Niedermayers or he signs Rob and then tries to send him and the #2 to the Canucks (or actually drafts the player the Canucks want and sends that player), who after August 1st, sign Scott.

The thing is, if Burke can't sign Rob to a long contract, he'll have to qualify him to keep him for the next season. I'm only guessing, but I doubt Nonis would want to pay Rob that much money... which would mean that Burke would have to add a bit more to the kitty if he wants the Nucks to "take Rob off his hands". heh heh heh.

If none of this comes to pass, having Jovo and the #10 is still a great thing, and I for one would be extremely happy with it.

We should ask ourselves why Burke would prefer Jovanovski over Niedermayer?

I'm actually begining to believe that Jovo has become so underrated that people forget how dominant a player he can be. If Naslund isn't coming back, I'd think long and hard before giving up Jovo... I think he could make a great captain, and with the extra responsibility, perhaps it helps him mature his game as well.

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07-27-2005, 01:39 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
If it's Niedermayer who is the other part of the deal, I'd hope Nonis would be getting something small added on, a 3rd round pick or something. I would definitely not want Rob at his QO salary of just under $1.6 mil, but if Nonis could get him to sign for around $1.2 mil or so on a longer term deal, I'd be happy with that. Best case scenario is you have the Sedins' new winger, worst case is you get a very versatile two-way 3rd liner.

Naslund-Morrison-Bertuzzi
D.Sedin-H.Sedin-R.Niedermayer
Cooke-Kesler-Linden
Ruutu-Chubarov-May

Ohlund-Niedermayer
Allen-Salo
Malik-Sopel

Not a bad line-up IMO. If Nonis could get Naslund to sign for around $5 mil and Niedermayer to take around the same that would still leave around $3 mil or so of cap space after all RFA's are signed. That defense starts to look rather soft IMO though. I'd let Malik walk via UFA, and look for a tougher replacement either through UFA or trade.
I like the look of the lineup, but I would also drop Malik and additionally May and use the extra salary to sign a Sedin RW'er ($2.5-3mill range), a depth d-man (Malik's salary) and drop R.Niedermayer to the third line to play with Kesler and Cooke (really good 3rd line in my opinion) and use Linden on the 4th (as well as PK).

Naslund-Morrison-Bertuzzi
D.Sedin-H.Sedin-UFA
Cooke-Kesler-Niedermayer
Ruutu-Chubarov-Linden

Ohlund-Niedermayer (best pairing in the NHL)
Allen-Salo
UFA-Sopel

Go Team Niedermayer!

By the way, what is up with Tyler Bouck? I don't see many people putting him in their lineups for next season, but I see him as a pretty feasible 4th line sparkplug type guy at this point. Plus he is ultra-cheap.

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07-27-2005, 01:43 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deathbear
alright, so burke has made it clear that he's willing to part with his pick for the right price.

and it's no secret new jersey's best d-man is interested in vancouver.

however, it's also no secret vancouver simply can't retain all their other pieces of the puzzle if they were to sign niedermayer.

so how about this?

we package jovanovski off with someone/something to anaheim for the right to pick second overall this year.

we unload his salary (what is it, anyway?), and use that to free up space for scott. scott, in my opinion, while not as physical, is an obvious improvement over jovanovski.

what do you think? could this be workable?

I vote yes! In a heartbeat. As I've previously posted (for which i was royally flamed):
To Anaheim: Jovanovski, Chubarov, King & 10th pick
To Vancouver: 2nd pick, R.Niedermayer & Pahlsson

Yes, Anaheim is winning this trade... but it allows Vancouver to free up salary for Scott Niedermayer. I'd take Niedermayer over Jovo-nono ANYDAY! We could then trade down a couple spots and still pick up Brule.

Another idea:
To Washington: Jovanovski, Cloutier & Malik
To Vancouver: Kolzig, Witt & Morrisonn

Although, that wouldn't free up money for Niedermayer. But it would solve the little goaltender problem. But would the Caps do it? Probably not.

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