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russia economic crisis - will it affect KHL?

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Old
12-11-2013, 11:58 AM
  #201
Yakushev72
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Originally Posted by kp61c View Post
i didn't mean that
in current russia to give such a salary (thanks to selling natural gas) to a player is amoral and absurd, imho. the whole system is broken
In principle it seems off base, but it is what the KHL has to do to get top name attractions in the fold. They will pay whatever it takes to get current NHL superstars to make the switch. That is what puts "butts in seats," so to speak. Kovalchuk was an NHL superstar in his prime years, not pushing 40 like Jagr. Big name attractions will do everything for marketing the league. In that respect, no financial sum is too much.

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12-11-2013, 12:02 PM
  #202
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A solid view on it. Though squeezing into Sweden might prove difficult. Germany on the other hand is avery realistic option.
You're right. Sweden has resisted so far, if they are tempted at all.

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12-11-2013, 03:33 PM
  #203
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{Mod}... do serdukov and his amazons belong to the soviet era or Yeltsin's "junta"? what about rotenberg brothers, timchenko, kovalchuk brothers. has putin nothing to do with them? what about cooperative Ozero? putin is fighting corruption? the system is build on corruption, putil's power is build on corruption. do you live in russia?
... yes, all very interesting kp61, now would you like to explain how all of this combined with the so called "Russian economic crisis" could potentially affect the KHL? Will it put a halt to the much needed new generation of arenas' required throughout the KHL's ports of call and inhibit growth, potentially pushing some clubs over the brink or relegated down a rung or what?..

Note: We dont mind the politics being brought up but only if its done so to put the situation with various KHL teams & the league in general into context. That its relevant to the business of the KHL, its clubs & so on.

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Old
12-11-2013, 07:55 PM
  #204
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Replacing red directors with his own people into his own, corrupt power vertical isn't really "fighting corruption". Yes, bribery has gone down but at the same time, Russia is still dead last in global rankings on the subject.

Also, with how blatantly rigged the electoral process is in Russia, coupled with the supression of all opposition and control of state media, irregardless of his actual popularity, don't pretend that he's a "true president elect" in the honest sense of the word.
You misuse the term "red directors". There is a big difference between red directors and apparatchiki.

Placing ppl close to you in key positions is nothing special. That's what every politician in every country of this world does and actually should do if he expects to be able to control anything. Calling them corrupt just like that without any knowledge is pretty obvious propaganda infested heritage of the times. Yep, it's part of a well mannered conversation between so called "intellectuals" in Russia to call everybody corrupt and balme everything on Putin while very few of them really have a clue about the real life dealings.

Putin's fighting corruption is of course in the first place removing the corruption which could be prevented beforehand. But that's not the point. He's got there when he's got there. He's not responsible for that levels of corruption nor is he to be applauded for fighting it. He's doing what every politician does. He survives and tries to gain control. It wouldn't work if he wouldn't remove the old infrastructure. What ppl nearly never realize is how hard is once in power to make moves without being opposed by the old guards of all kinds. I'm not saying Putin would want it. I acouldn't possibly know. {Mod}

As for some absurd rankings, I live a life here, I know what it was like and what it is like. The change compared to the 90s is enormous. And I'm always amused when another guy who hasn't realised the 90s were over goes to jail.

I also have a good insight(better than most Russians I'd guess) into the elections process. Yeltsin's elections were rigged. Putin's are not. Again, you may not like it. Even I may not like it, but that's what the majority of Russians have chosen.{Mod}

Again, Putin is the president elect. It's a fact. {Mod}


Last edited by Killion: 12-15-2013 at 06:13 PM. Reason: Not req'd...
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Old
12-12-2013, 02:50 AM
  #205
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Again, Putin is the president elect. It's a fact.
one question.
so you believe that chechens adore putin and his presidential election results there with around 100% support is somewhat right?

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12-12-2013, 03:15 AM
  #206
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... yes, all very interesting kp61, now would you like to explain how all of this combined with the so called "Russian economic crisis" could potentially affect the KHL? Will it put a halt to the much needed new generation of arenas' required throughout the KHL's ports of call and inhibit growth, potentially pushing some clubs over the brink or relegated down a rung or what?..

Note: We dont mind the politics being brought up but only if its done so to put the situation with various KHL teams & the league in general into context. That its relevant to the business of the KHL, its clubs & so on.
if regime falls, there won't be the khl, a lot of clubs will be defunct and we'd prefer to skip the much needed generation of arenas this time, thank you very much

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12-12-2013, 03:38 AM
  #207
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if regime falls, there won't be the khl, a lot of clubs will be defunct and we'd prefer to skip the much needed generation of arenas this time, thank you very much

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12-12-2013, 08:35 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by kp61c View Post
if regime falls, there won't be the khl, a lot of clubs will be defunct and we'd prefer to skip the much needed generation of arenas this time, thank you very much
If whoever is in charge after Putin is a football or a basketball fan and would prefer money to be put behind those sports more or maybe no money at all in sports, right?

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12-12-2013, 09:07 AM
  #209
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If whoever is in charge after Putin is a football or a basketball fan and would prefer money to be put behind those sports more or maybe no money at all in sports, right?
firstly, putin is a sambo fan,
secondly, this golden rain of money made by pumping natural resources abroad didn't avoid football and basketball either, with football being the main beneficiary here.
so i let you to come to conclusion what happens when we swap a sambo fan with a football fan

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12-12-2013, 11:11 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by kp61c View Post
firstly, putin is a sambo fan,
secondly, this golden rain of money made by pumping natural resources abroad didn't avoid football and basketball either, with football being the main beneficiary here.
so i let you to come to conclusion what happens when we swap a sambo fan with a football fan
Yes, Putin's affection with martial arts and his "Judo Club" inner circle has been documented in the press here.

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12-13-2013, 01:11 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by kp61c View Post
if regime falls, there won't be the khl, a lot of clubs will be defunct and we'd prefer to skip the much needed generation of arenas this time, thank you very much
I have a hard time believing let alone agreeing with that. Barring some sort of major revolution of catastrophic proportions, turning the clock back decades, youd have elections, a new regime & government who Im sure would be predisposed to the furtherance of supporting the building of infrastructure & arenas, supporting the KHL and its principals.

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Old
12-13-2013, 09:57 AM
  #212
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If whoever is in charge after Putin is a football or a basketball fan and would prefer money to be put behind those sports more or maybe no money at all in sports, right?
There is video of Putin in full hockey gear skating in to shoot a penalty shot, and he didn't look all that bad for a 60-year old politician. The boost that Putin's favorable disposition gave to the KHL business entity was probably critical to short-term survival at the outset, but there are probably enough roots sunk so that the KHL won't go away easily. Russians love hockey almost as much as football, and the "bread and circuses" effect is popular with all politicians. Sadly or not, the chances that someone polemically different from Putin will rise to power after he's gone seem pretty remote. Despite the title of this thread, the Russian economy continues to advance, if more slowly, and people are looking for entertainment to spend their free time on.

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12-13-2013, 04:08 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
...The boost that Putin's favorable disposition gave to the KHL business entity was probably critical to short-term survival at the outset, but there are probably enough roots sunk so that the KHL won't go away easily.
Agree. Though the economy is sluggish it will continue to grow, fans demanding top tier hockey. I dont see the KHL disappearing. Quite the opposite in fact.

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12-15-2013, 12:35 PM
  #214
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One of the most interesting threads I have read in a while...

Anyways, no matter what Russia's economic state, KHL won't be affected, not like they depends on ticket sales...

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12-15-2013, 02:44 PM
  #215
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I think about once a year or two there are threads on this board that suggest that KHL will fold. Since KHL is Russia's social project that serve very many of Russia's internal and external interests I do not think there is any sort of concerns that KHL will be affected. The worst thing that may happen is if certain clubs may fold and leave the league, which in my mind is not a bad thing.

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12-15-2013, 04:03 PM
  #216
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One of the most interesting threads I have read in a while...

Anyways, no matter what Russia's economic state, KHL won't be affected, not like they depends on ticket sales...
i think the fact that teams don't depend on ticket sales and instead depend on sponsorship from state enterprises is what the issue is here

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12-15-2013, 08:40 PM
  #217
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i think the fact that teams don't depend on ticket sales and instead depend on sponsorship from state enterprises is what the issue is here
That's exactly the issue foreign clubs have with KHL. They don't see it as being on a financially stable ground/setting, as opposed to the NHL which is set up so that teams can make a profit if they're smart and don't eff up things completely on and off the ice. They'd rather not be too reliant on Russian sugar daddies.

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12-16-2013, 01:26 AM
  #218
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One of the most interesting threads I have read in a while...

Anyways, no matter what Russia's economic state, KHL won't be affected, not like they depends on ticket sales...
To put it in context.

The most storied Russian club CSKA plays in a rink that in Canada would be considered old and out of date. Its a 5000 seater.

When I went it was 500 rubles or $15 approx for a "premium" ticket.

Canucks used to sell "nosebleed" tickets through Shoppers Drug Mart and I think petrol stations for like $20 way back about 20 years or more ago.

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That's exactly the issue foreign clubs have with KHL. They don't see it as being on a financially stable ground/setting, as opposed to the NHL which is set up so that teams can make a profit if they're smart and don't eff up things completely on and off the ice. They'd rather not be too reliant on Russian sugar daddies.
I suspect that there is very little money coming from "fans" unlike the NHL where money is made from the gates as well as merchandise.

It was very difficult for me to track down hockey merchandise in Moscow. Like painful.

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12-16-2013, 02:01 AM
  #219
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To put it in context.

When I went it was 500 rubles or $15 approx for a "premium" ticket.
To put it into context, Phoenix gets made fun of for "giving away" tickets for $40 nosebleeds and $75 'premium'

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12-16-2013, 11:31 PM
  #220
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I think about once a year or two there are threads on this board that suggest that KHL will fold. Since KHL is Russia's social project that serve very many of Russia's internal and external interests I do not think there is any sort of concerns that KHL will be affected. The worst thing that may happen is if certain clubs may fold and leave the league, which in my mind is not a bad thing.
The premise that launched this thread at the beginning was that Russia is spiraling into an economic crisis because of problems in the "metallurg industry." It seems to me its been at least 50 years since steel-making dominated the Russian economy. It seems like a shaky formulation at best. Maybe the guy envisioned the potential destruction of Metallurg Magnitogorsk and Metallurg Novokuznetsk?

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12-17-2013, 03:02 AM
  #221
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no need to overthink. the democratic change of power isn't feasible here. hence when it really change (and it'll change sooner or later and i don't mean another putin's puppet) there will be a huge political and economical crisis. heck, the country may disintegrate again. but there are a lot of ifs and in won't be anytime soon. as for the khl' future in case of these events, well, i leave it to your imagination.


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12-17-2013, 10:29 AM
  #222
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no need to overthink. the democratic change of power isn't feasible here. hence when it really change (and it'll change sooner or later and i don't mean another putin's puppet) there will be a huge political and economical crisis. heck, the country may disintegrate again. but there are a lot of ifs and in won't be anytime soon. as for the khl' future in case of these events, well, i leave it to your imagination.
Its not feasible,because you Russian citizens dont let it become feasible.

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12-17-2013, 02:53 PM
  #223
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Looks like Ukraine is leaning towards Russia's side with the buyout of $15B of debt.

@BNN: Russia reaches deal with Ukraine on $15B bailout http://t.co/qGzIwHv3NR

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12-17-2013, 03:12 PM
  #224
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Looks like Ukraine is leaning towards Russia's side with the buyout of $15B of debt.

@BNN: Russia reaches deal with Ukraine on $15B bailout http://t.co/qGzIwHv3NR
Hopefully this was not just a gift from Russia and instead of empty words Russia got something substantial in return.

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12-17-2013, 08:51 PM
  #225
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Looks like Ukraine is leaning towards Russia's side with the buyout of $15B of debt.

@BNN: Russia reaches deal with Ukraine on $15B bailout http://t.co/qGzIwHv3NR
Ukraine had no choice, the EU/IMF gave them a horrific offer, would only give them small loans if Ukraine increased gas prices by 40% and froze income growth. The country would have spiraled out of control. Ukraine is not better of which ever way they turn. The Ukrainian government (Well the Oligarchs behind the Party of Regions) wants to join the EU don't forget that. However they want to keep the President in power for the 2015 elections, if they took the EU/IMF offer no way would they win the next election. Not that difficult to figure out.

With regards to Russia being in an economic 'crisis' it is far from a crisis or recession. If this is a recession then it is a very strange one with unemployment so low. The government's priority at the present time is inflation, reducing inflation is essential to Russia if the economy is to go undergo structural reform. With interest rates remaining so high, fiscal policy so tight because of the budget rule and credit expansion deliberately checked as part of the anti inflation policy in the absence of strong external demand it is simply unrealistic to expect the economy not to respond by slowing down to a crawl. This is what an anti inflation policy is supposed to do. Inflation has fallen by approximately 1% this year and it will need to fall by another % before any relaxation in policy. Anyway, Russia has enough in the reserve fund to survive another big crisis.

I have been working in Russia for seven years, with regards to Putin, I was not a fan of him, I still am not but I do understand why he has support in Russia. From the options available in Russia and looking at all the other parties policies along with the progress Russia made from the 90's it is not difficult to understand why he has support especially in a middle class that is conservative.

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