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Markham, Arena schedule presser for 11/30; UPD - no public $$ involved

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Old
11-30-2013, 03:40 PM
  #101
rojac
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Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
I don't see why another team in the GTA should necessarily hurt Hamilton's chances.

Look at NYC; you have one team in Manhattan, one (soon to be in) Brooklyn, and one team in Newark, NJ.

In some ways, Hamilton is to Toronto what Newark is to NYC. Except that the distance between Hamilton and Toronto is significantly greater. And Hamilton is much more populated than Newark.

I would hope for a second team in Toronto and a team in Hamilton. I'd like to see the second team in Toronto play in the ACC though... oh well, we'll see how things turn out.
Why do people keep wanting to litter the area with hockey teams. There is no need for a team other than the Leafs in Southern Ontario. But as I said before, I'd prefer it if Toronto, Montreal, and maybe Vancouver had the only Canadian franchises in the NHL.

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11-30-2013, 04:03 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by rojac View Post
Why do people keep wanting to litter the area with hockey teams. There is no need for a team other than the Leafs in Southern Ontario. But as I said before, I'd prefer it if Toronto, Montreal, and maybe Vancouver had the only Canadian franchises in the NHL.
Except for the nhl fans who A) don't like the leafs and B) want to be able to watch an nhl game live without paying 500 bucks a game, but yeah, there's no need.

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11-30-2013, 04:15 PM
  #103
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There's definitely a market for a second team in Toronto. There's enough people in Toronto who hate the Leafs and would rather follow the second team

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11-30-2013, 04:24 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Acesolid View Post
I think it's a good investment, NHL team or not.

With the Raptors and Leafs playing out of the AC Center, and the size of Toronto, having a second Arena for other shows and sport events (MMA, Boxing, OHL, etc...) is a pretty safe investment, just like the new Colisée in Québec City since the Old Colisée will soon be a pile of ruins.

However, if they think they'll be a lock for an NHL team with it, they better think again!

I am quite certain the Maple Leafs, Senators, and maybe even also the Sabres will fight to the death against it.

Also, with two other serious NHL hockey willing destinations around (The Pacific Northwest and Québec, especially since Québec's arena will soon be operational and Portland has an arena if the Seattle project fails.) I dont think there's any reason to really hurt some NHL teams in the coming expansion and go to Markham.

HOWEVER, if the Coyotes fail when their five years grace period is over, and the NHL has expanded in the meantime, then I believe they might have a shot if there is nobody else willing to take the team and they are ready to pay a HUGE amount in compensation to the teams around.

Of course that's just my biaised opinion, but I really don't see the NHL screwing either the Pacific Northwest or Québec out of an expansion team and BADLY devalue their Number One franchise the Leafs!
As for Ohl 20,000 is way to big 2,000-4,000 in that size of a rink woud not work all that well.

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11-30-2013, 04:34 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Ryan34222 View Post
Love the passion JMROWE and I agree if there's a team in SO it should be Hamilton but the ship has sailed for the Hammer. I'd say at this point only way we get a team is if Buffalo completely flops and they need to move (assuming of course after there's a TO2).
I don't know about that, maybe we should ask Rowe how many billions it would cost to payoff 2 GTA. Teams

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11-30-2013, 04:41 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by jayme2017 View Post
As for Ohl 20,000 is way to big 2,000-4,000 in that size of a rink woud not work all that well.
Most modern arenas have the ability to reduce their size for different events (Tarp and curtains). I dont see why they couldn't do it in Markham.

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11-30-2013, 04:42 PM
  #107
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Is debating the location of a potential Southern Ontario team worthwhile at this stage?

Markham will have the Arena and the Owner, presuming this goes ahead.

It seems clear where the NHL will choose at this stage, if they decide to expand or relocate to the Region.

That isn't to say "Give Up" to those in the Steel City, because by all means, keep dreaming. But I believe the chances with a new arena in Markham are basically zilch in the short and medium term.

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11-30-2013, 04:45 PM
  #108
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I wouldn't be surprised if one of Bell or Rogers buys the other out at MLSE, then the bought out party lands the Markham franchise. Any territorial fees would be part of the buyout agreement etc. The NHL wouldn't likely have any issues, as the parties could/want this and they know the potential revenues are there.
Seems very logical to me.

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11-30-2013, 04:45 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Acesolid View Post
Most modern arenas have the ability to reduce their size for different events (Tarp and curtains). I dont see why they couldn't do it in Markham.
You could do that would it be the best no but it might work but the bigger issue is i doubt your going to see a expanson team it would have to be a current team.

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11-30-2013, 04:47 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by ranold26 View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if one of Bell or Rogers buys the other out at MLSE, then the bought out party lands the Markham franchise. Any territorial fees would be part of the buyout agreement etc. The NHL wouldn't likely have any issues, as the parties could/want this and they know the potential revenues are there.
Seems very logical to me.
Another Thought:

If MLSE is interested in building an NFL stadium to lure the Bills, as some recent reports have suggested, a large infusion of cash could be very helpful in that regard.

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11-30-2013, 04:47 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by ranold26 View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if one of Bell or Rogers buys the other out at MLSE, then the bought out party lands the Markham franchise. Any territorial fees would be part of the buyout agreement etc. The NHL wouldn't likely have any issues, as the parties could/want this and they know the potential revenues are there.
Seems very logical to me.
I really don't think your going to see a Nhl team in Markham.

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11-30-2013, 04:57 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by rojac View Post
Why do people keep wanting to litter the area with hockey teams. There is no need for a team other than the Leafs in Southern Ontario. But as I said before, I'd prefer it if Toronto, Montreal, and maybe Vancouver had the only Canadian franchises in the NHL.
Glad what you prefer isn't what the powers to be prefer.

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11-30-2013, 05:20 PM
  #113
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TheHockeyNews 10:10am via Web .@THNKenCampbell explains why the near-done deal for a arena just north of Toronto is all about bring in an @NHL team thehockeynews.com/blog/make-no-m…
Same article suggests Seattle is a lock which leaves Quebec city and Markham for the other spot.

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Old
11-30-2013, 05:37 PM
  #114
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More Details:

Quote:
The MOUs still needs to be rubber-stamped by counsellors at a city council meeting on Monday night, but both men are confident that the financial plans will be given the green light.

The second MOU includes a commitment of $70 million from developers, a huge boost to a project that would be constructed near Hwy. 407 and Kennedy Rd.

As it stands, Mayor Scarpitti said about $275 million of the $325 million estimated cost — about 85% — has been committed. That includes:

$162.5 million through Roustan’s signed MOU.
$32.5 million through money from a future arena lease agreement.
$10 million collected through developer contributions.
$70 million as part of an MOU from a group of developers with a $120 million plan to fund the arena.

The mayor is still on the hook to find $50 million in additional funding but apparently many councillors this past week agreed that progress is being made and are said to be willing to give him more time to secure the money needed.
http://www.torontosun.com/2013/11/30...stan-scarpitti

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11-30-2013, 05:45 PM
  #115
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Glad what you prefer isn't what the powers to be prefer.
They have not said anything though. The same powers left QC and Winnipeg.

Besides, in any other league, Van, Tor, Mtl would be the only cities and with good reason.

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11-30-2013, 05:46 PM
  #116
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Was this the 3rd or 4th presser in the past 2 years?

Still all talk just like seattle

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11-30-2013, 05:57 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by rojac View Post
Why do people keep wanting to litter the area with hockey teams. There is no need for a team other than the Leafs in Southern Ontario. But as I said before, I'd prefer it if Toronto, Montreal, and maybe Vancouver had the only Canadian franchises in the NHL.
Whats with the hate for Ottawa, Calgary, Winnipeg, and Edmonton? Why can't they have nice things?

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11-30-2013, 05:58 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
They have not said anything though. The same powers left QC and Winnipeg.

Besides, in any other league, Van, Tor, Mtl would be the only cities and with good reason.
What other league would sell out in so many other cities in Canada? Sure Edmonton, Peg, Ottawa, and Calgary couldn't support an NBA or NFL team but they all clearly support hockey.

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11-30-2013, 06:11 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by JMROWE View Post
A 2nd NHL. team in Toronto will never happen just like the NFL. will never happen for Toronto because of the over all costs & the lack of interest from both the NHL. & NFL.

NHL.
arena - $400 million
team - $400 million
pay off MLSE. - $ 200 million +
I think you are double counting the team and the payoff to MLSE. When Anaheim was added the payoff to the Kings was part of the $50 million fee.

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11-30-2013, 06:26 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by aqib View Post
Whats with the hate for Ottawa, Calgary, Winnipeg, and Edmonton? Why can't they have nice things?
I think it's the belief that to be 'big league' you can't have medium market Canadian cities (which are the equivalent of small market American cities).

All apart of the pipe dream that hockey will become anything more than the fourth of the 'Big 4'.

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11-30-2013, 06:52 PM
  #121
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Ya but still it could be a wash. Hamilton wouldnt have to pay the same indemnification to Toronto that Markham surely would, however, they would have to pay Buffalo something so in total, the sum could be the same as what Markham might be looking at with MLSE alone.
I think realistically, they'd pay the same fee, unless we were living in a perfect world where both teams have an arena built with owners willing to get an expansion team. If that was the case, then MLSE could pick and choose what team they want to bring in by having a lower idemnification fee.

Thats pretty unrealistic though, so I feel that if Hamilton was coming with a team, and Markham had no chance (e.g. they were rejected an arena), then MLSE would push for the max fee.

Hopefully you understand what I mean; I'm posting from my phone so it's hard to put my thoughts into text.

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11-30-2013, 06:53 PM
  #122
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you are confusing expansion fee with indemnification. an expansion fee is paid to the league. indemnification is paid to the nearby franchises said to be hurt by the newly placed team.
Yes, I meant idemnification fee.

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11-30-2013, 07:03 PM
  #123
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A couple of questions:

1) Other than the developer leasing the arena what are other developers getting for their contributions?

2) Wouldn't the content from a new NHL team be an inducement to Rogers/Bell? Like the Expos/Nationals had to give the Orioles?

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11-30-2013, 07:51 PM
  #124
Killion
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Originally Posted by Finnish your Czech View Post
I think realistically, they'd pay the same fee, unless we were living in a perfect world where both teams have an arena built with owners willing to get an expansion team. If that was the case, then MLSE could pick and choose what team they want to bring in by having a lower idemnification fee.

Thats pretty unrealistic though, so I feel that if Hamilton was coming with a team, and Markham had no chance (e.g. they were rejected an arena), then MLSE would push for the max fee.

Hopefully you understand what I mean; I'm posting from my phone so it's hard to put my thoughts into text.
Ya, I gotcha alrighty, and your theories entirely plausible as well, sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aqib View Post
A couple of questions:

1) Other than the developer leasing the arena what are other developers getting for their contributions?

2) Wouldn't the content from a new NHL team be an inducement to Rogers/Bell? Like the Expos/Nationals had to give the Orioles?
1) Good question, and it looks like they receive access, influence with the city.... they also receive a Plaque in the GTA Center in The Builders Hall of Fame. Nifty huh?

2) Youd certainly think so. Indeed, you could probably waive the indemnification fee's and just give Bell/Rogers your local rights for 5-7yrs in lieu of cash... however.... appears the NHL might have a problem with that nowadays.... seems they want all the clubs funneling local broadcast revenues through New York, centralization, the total amount of Local & National Broadcast Revenues split 30 ways as per the NFL model. Least ways thats the direction their headed.

So cutting a deal with Rogers/Bell might not be so easy. Then as well with Markham, the whole issue of direct competition to the ACC for events, concerts, consumer & trade shows etc. How does Roustan plan to handle that 10,000 pound pink elephant? MLSE & the ACC with their Warchest could start offering Guaranteed Performance Fee's to acts of all shapes & sizes, leaving Markham in the dark but for some Asian Taste Food Shows or whatever. Seriously problematical situation here but hey, if the private sector wants to fund a new building, roll the dice, no problem. But why should the City of Markham have to back it? This thing, its got Glendale II written all over it, and Roustan is about a notch lower on the snakes belly scales than Steve Ellman & Jerry Moyes combined from what Ive seen & heard of him.

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11-30-2013, 07:59 PM
  #125
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I think you are double counting the team and the payoff to MLSE. When Anaheim was added the payoff to the Kings was part of the $50 million fee.
There is few things you have to take in account
1. That was 20+ years ago things have changed & the territory fee will at least triple what the ducks paid the kings
2. This is Ontario not California where the population is slightly smaller than California which has more people than all of Canada so they can pay lot less in territory fees .
3. MLSE. has a lot lose here if 2nd NHL. takes root in there backyard because they also own the Raptors & Marlies which are struggling right now to put butts in the seats right now & 2nd NHL. team in the area could do some serious damage to both teams .

People don't seem to realize that Copps Coliseum can be all renovated pretty quickly in a matter of a few months few months or one NHL. off season . Plus MLSE. has screwed Hamilton out of an NHL. franchise for the past 30+ years & what makes Markham think the MLSE. will let them have an NHL. team when they have been stonewalling Hamilton for all theses years which is much further away & would not impact the leafs & there other business intrest .

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