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We need Toughness and Size!!!

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Old
09-29-2003, 06:32 PM
  #1
Drunk World Order
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We need Toughness and Size!!!

We really need a real enforcer...It's been obvious over the past three years and it has hurt us not having one...I like Dwyer..but he's not a Enforcer...more of a ***** disturber who plays with alot of grit...Blouin...He's an Ahl enforcer? ...Carpentier? ...don't know to much about him, but from what I hear he's nothing special...We had Odette...whom I thought would have made a good enforcer, but apparently he lacks the skill to be a everyday player. I know Jimmy Bonneau is out future enforcer, but he's 2 to 3 years away...

Players I think could help the habs and not cost us much...

Ken Belanger...Last I heard is that he's a free agent...not sure about now...He can enforce and brings a big body...

Ryan Flinn...I don't know how he's doing this pre season...but he could really help the habs...could probally challenge the top heavy weights in the league

Todd Fedourk...He could be had apparently for a fair price!

other guys with some grit and skill...would definatley help us...guys like Lapperiere, Moreau, LeClerc, Wilson, Wiemer...etc

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09-29-2003, 06:33 PM
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Yeah, let's bring useless goons. Useless goons have proven to be useful. Uh?

For the Grier and Laperriere guys, I don't know what we would have to give up for them, but I'm not sure I want to give anything that can be good in future for it. It would be a waste in the long haul.

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09-29-2003, 06:40 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awesome`
Yeah, let's bring useless goons. Useless goons have proven to be useful. Uh?
What do we have know? ...Toronto was smacking us around all night...there most dominant player mifgt have been Perrot! ...what can we put out there? Carpentier?...The leafs had Tucker, Nolan, Domi, Belak, Perrot...and so on and we have Carpentier?...We do need a goon...or risk Souray, Komisarek or Quintal getting injured fighting...Almost every team in the league has a bonified goon...some have 2 or 3...we have nothing and other teams know that and they play the habs with the intent to intimidate, and bully/ cheapshot our skilled players...I would like a guy that can take a regular shift and not hurt us....but also keep the other team honest? ...No real Hab fan or Hockey fan can tell me not having a goon hasn't hurt us!

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09-29-2003, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Komisarek
Wakeup! I'm sick of people getting so worried, this is pre-season, tonights game we had half an AHL team playing, no koivu, no markov, no ribeiro, no zednik, no souray, no bulis, ETC ETC PLEASE STOP WITH THESE USELESS THREADS.
You need to wake up...Useless? ...I'm not just talking about the pre-season Peter Pan...I'm talking about the last 3 or 4 years...we have been pushed around and have never addressed it...all of the well known hockey columnist have brought it forward...I was at Gretzkys in Toronto on Friday and Jaque Demers was there...and I talked to him for about 10 minutes and he also brought it up about 3 times during our conversation...Toughness and Size has been an issue for years and it still ain't being addressed...I know we have goal scoring issues too, however I feel with some toughness and size it will open up the play for guys like Koivu, Riberio, Zednik and Bulis...

If you find this thread useless...don't participate...go initiate a I miss Elvis Stolko thread!

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09-29-2003, 07:01 PM
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So what you want us to do, trade our future Kids because they aren't oversized goons, for people old players like Leclair. We need big players, but in time we will get what we need. I am damn sure Gainey, a big player himself knows they need him to dress, but ****, players like that aren't that easy to get. Although you don't need them to win, look at the Devils. We look for quick fixes, yet other teams or team do well without the "norm". The devils, small payroll, no power forward, no big offensive player. They have a great goalie and play a system, that is how they win. We don't need a power forward, but it could really help.

When a team loses it's very easy to see what they "need" but when they win, are they perfect?

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09-29-2003, 07:02 PM
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We are rebuilding and bringing goons won't help our Club!!

WE NEED to have pantience and faith in young guys to step in and contribute, I wouldn't want to continue on bringing in more dead wood, we've had quiet a bad record in that department, lets build from within, we aren't winning anything soon, so stop expecting goon to change anything as getting goon isn't gone make us win games the biggest priority is we need talent upfront, goons are easy part if we can atleast build respectable team with good overall talent.

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09-29-2003, 07:04 PM
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Let's be like the Rangers and trade Hossa and Perezhogin to Philly for Leclair then trade Garon, AK, Plekanec and Higgins for Tkachuk

WE GOT SIZE NOW YEAH!!!!!!!!!

WATCH OUR NHL WE ARE GETTING THAT CUP NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

did I mention useless post?

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09-29-2003, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY_NiNe
So what you want us to do, trade our future Kids because they aren't oversized goons, for people old players like Leclair. We need big players, but in time we will get what we need. I am damn sure Gainey, a big player himself knows they need him to dress, but ****, players like that aren't that easy to get. Although you don't need them to win, look at the Devils. We look for quick fixes, yet other teams or team do well without the "norm". The devils, small payroll, no power forward, no big offensive player. They have a great goalie and play a system, that is how they win. We don't need a power forward, but it could really help.

When a team loses it's very easy to see what they "need" but when they win, are they perfect?
The Devils have there own system and it works very well for them and they are very disiplined...I believe we also need a consitent game plan...and I think will establish that...But if you talk to an devils fan they are panicking because they have no one to replace Jim McKenzie...but also what the devils have gritty players with Hockey Sense...guys like Marshall, Stevenson, Rupp, and Lagenbrunner...I know it's not easy to get a Poward forward and I don't want to trade our future away...I believe we are currently the smallest team in the league...as far as forwards...and we need toaddress that immediatley...Guys like Ward, Ryder, and Higgins are a step in the right direction!!!

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09-29-2003, 07:17 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY_NiNe
Let's be like the Rangers and trade Hossa and Perezhogin to Philly for Leclair then trade Garon, AK, Plekanec and Higgins for Tkachuk

WE GOT SIZE NOW YEAH!!!!!!!!!

WATCH OUR NHL WE ARE GETTING THAT CUP NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

did I mention useless post?
You must have a good crack supplier...I never said trade for Leclair...I was talking about Mike Leclerc who is 26 6'2 and 215lbs...and I wouldn't trade Hossa or Perezhogin...we would probally have to give back a body and a draft pick...but he's the type of player that could help the habs...he has size, grit, and skill and could help our team...Trust me I believe our future looks good...but it still doesn't address the size issue...maybe Ferland and Bonneau...Perezhogin, Higgens and Hossa will bring offence and skill to our lineup and I look forward to that!!!

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09-29-2003, 07:18 PM
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Let's get Ken Belanger and the “goon” question will be over.

And we'll spend time talkin' hockey after.

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Old
09-29-2003, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HABitude
Let's get Ken Belanger and the “goon” question will be over.

And we'll spend time talkin' hockey after.
Belanger would be a upgrade over Blouin, Dwyer, and Carpentier!

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09-29-2003, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drunk World Order
Belanger would be a upgrade over Blouin, Dwyer, and Carpentier!
Yeah, Blouin, Dwyer, and Carpentier: none of them are the solution for the goon player spot. Bélanger is available, so let's get him and concentrate after on hockey. Simple enough?

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09-29-2003, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drunk World Order
You need to wake up...Useless? ...I'm not just talking about the pre-season Peter Pan.!
Whoa S**T he just called you peter pan...if only we had a goon on this board he`d make him pay

I don`t think a goon is neccesarily what the habs need. They could use a lot more size down the middle but we aren`t that small. We have Souray, Rivet, Komisarek, Quintal, Kilger, Ward who all have decent size and can throw the body around. I don`t see any reason to give up some of our assets to pick up a goon who is going to play 2 minutes a game and do more harm taking bad penalties than he`ll do us any good.

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09-29-2003, 10:08 PM
  #14
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it been rumoured andre roy (tampa bay)could be had...now i think this is the type of player we need to fill the (goon) role .his can create offense and he's not afraid to fight ,he just got to get a little better control of his temper,he take bad penalties sometimes.but i take him in a secondwonder what it would take to get him?

 
Old
09-30-2003, 01:36 AM
  #15
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Is it just me or the tougness is OVERRATED ?

This can score even on a soccer net & we need GOONS ????

5 MIN majors + instigators that's what we need to get this team to rebound

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09-30-2003, 03:43 AM
  #16
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Russian Fan, I go back and forth on the need for a tough guy. I think it is important to have guys willing to defend their teammates. I think the fans on the board overrate the need to win fights though. Of course if you lose alot of fights you don't drop them as often. Rivet is a good example. I think that the Habs have never really decided what to do about this. As they are not very talented, they seem reluctant to have the Dwyer's or Cummins of the league in the lineup over a Dackell who is marginal,soft, but more reliable. they have to commit to a way of thinking. do you want energy on a 4th line or just the guys who can't make your top 3 lines ?

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09-30-2003, 04:19 AM
  #17
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I was at the game last night and after getting a look at the line ups for each team, I wished I could turn the clock back 15 years so that the Habs would have had a Nilan or a Kordic in the line to keep the opposition honest.

Would those of you who do not believe that the Habs require an "enforcer" been singing a different tune if Marchment had connnected on one of the two or three low checks he attempted (on Perezhogin & Plekanec I believe). My guess is yes.

I'm not worried about the Habs winning the fights between designated tough guys/enforcers., However, there is merit in the Canadiens having a presence on the team that says to the opposition, if you take liberties with our skilled players, you will pay a price.

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09-30-2003, 04:37 AM
  #18
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We have a lot more pressing needs than some goon or plummer fourth liner that gets 5 min a game.

Our fourth line is not losing us hockey games.

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09-30-2003, 04:50 AM
  #19
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I can't imagine that there is one team in the NHL that worries about a physical game vs Montreal.

Hockey is a contact sport.



We need IMO size and toughness all over the forward lines.

We constantly lose battles along the boards. We really have nobody who takes a pounding trying to screen the goalie in front of the net.

We have nobody who can knock someone senseless if the game turns chippy, dirty etc.




We know the problem but finding the solution is a much tougher answer.

I'd say yes we need a goon probably two.

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09-30-2003, 04:54 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habfan4
I was at the game last night and after getting a look at the line ups for each team, I wished I could turn the clock back 15 years so that the Habs would have had a Nilan or a Kordic in the line to keep the opposition honest.

Would those of you who do not believe that the Habs require an "enforcer" been singing a different tune if Marchment had connnected on one of the two or three low checks he attempted (on Perezhogin & Plekanec I believe). My guess is yes.

I'm not worried about the Habs winning the fights between designated tough guys/enforcers., However, there is merit in the Canadiens having a presence on the team that says to the opposition, if you take liberties with our skilled players, you will pay a price.
Souray, Dwyer and Quintal weren't in the lineup last night. Look for them and Komisarek to grant us some of that respect. Those are all guys that will likely step up (especially Souray) if one of our player is hitted visiously.

Also, Dwyer is willing to drop 'em against anybody, anytime. Sure he doesn't win a lot but winning is truly overrated. If the guy is there to stick up for his teammates it's already good. I remember a monstrous check from him in the last period of the game against Buffalo that did just as well for the momentum than a fight.

Dwyer has something over most enforcers. He plays with energy, is very disciplined, hits and agitates all night long and is able to limit the errors defensively. Add to that he will drop the gloves against anyone and you have a player that helps making his teammates feel comfortable on the ice. He doesn't have to kill the opponent every time he fights for that.

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09-30-2003, 05:37 AM
  #21
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I have to agree with NWO on this one, we don't need one dimensional goons but before we can imagine making the playoffs we need to be respected by the other team, they have to know that taking liberties on one of our skilled players will get them hurt, bad.

Although I like Dwyer for his courage, he dosen't exactly command respect when a team like, Philly or Toronto come to town, and gaining that respect, especially on home ice, is very important, it's a phsycological aspect of the game that can be won even before the game starts.

Basically Dwyer needs help, he's more of an energy guy, who can defend players but he'll be even more menacing if he's lined up with a real enforcer, someone we don't have to dress every game only against the really tough teams, the rest of the time we can live with having just Dwyer play.

A couple of players to watch for who might be available are from Washington, there's a battle at camp between Stephen Peat and Alex Henry, the loser of that battle could be available at the waiver draft and would be a good pickup I think.

P.S.-Mike Grier was acquired by the Caps for a 4th rounder, I can't believe AS, at the time, didn;t jump all over that.

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09-30-2003, 06:29 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchausen
Souray, Dwyer and Quintal weren't in the lineup last night. Look for them and Komisarek to grant us some of that respect. Those are all guys that will likely step up (especially Souray) if one of our player is hitted visiously.

Also, Dwyer is willing to drop 'em against anybody, anytime. Sure he doesn't win a lot but winning is truly overrated. If the guy is there to stick up for his teammates it's already good. I remember a monstrous check from him in the last period of the game against Buffalo that did just as well for the momentum than a fight.

Dwyer has something over most enforcers. He plays with energy, is very disciplined, hits and agitates all night long and is able to limit the errors defensively. Add to that he will drop the gloves against anyone and you have a player that helps making his teammates feel comfortable on the ice. He doesn't have to kill the opponent every time he fights for that.
I for one don't want to see Souray in a scrap, his wrist is too large a question mark. Q can answer the bell, but he cannot be expected to take on heavyweights night in night out. Komisarek showed no fear last night, at the whistle he was looking for Belak who was roughing up Bouillon, but can a college player be expected to drop the gloves effectively?

Dwyer - I, like you, have nothing but good things to say about the guy. As you say, fearless and disciplined, a true team player. Problem is he's simply not intimadating (it's not how often you fight or how many you win/lose - it's whether the other team is aware when he's on the ice).

Bottom line, IMO there are players available who could give the Marchments of the world a momments pause before they line up a rookie. They'd come relatively cheap and some can even play a little hockey.

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09-30-2003, 06:44 AM
  #23
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I think we need to get tougher overall. Not necessarily a goon but a tough, physical player that hits on every shift and pots the odd goal in front of the net.

Guys like Holmstrom, Lapointe (not for 5 mill of course), Morrow, Tucker (I hate his guts but he's the type of guy we need), Scatchard, Moreau. Yes they might not be the most gifted offensive guys, BUT they do serve a purpose.

If we have too many little guys then it'll be too easy for a team like Toronto to push us around. Ottawa went through exactly what we'll be going through. Then Ottawa brought up guys like Chris Neil, and Mike Fisher, and all of a sudden Ottawa can compete in the physical aspect of the game. Even New Jersey has guys like Pandolfo, Stevenson, Grant Marshall, etc...guys that aren't afraid to stand up for themselves AND their teammates.

We don't need a goon, we need tough, physical, hockey players.

I think Barnaby would be perfect for us. How much does he make?

Cap

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09-30-2003, 09:22 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Capitano
Ottawa went through exactly what we'll be going through. Then Ottawa brought up guys like Chris Neil, and Mike Fisher, and ...

Cap
... and Chara, Varada and Smolinsky.

When will we realise what we desesperatly need? We need size and hard workers. Guys like Grier, Moreau, Laperriere, Barnaby, Varada, Roy, name it.
I'm tired of all the Witehall*, Dackell, Audette, Perreault, Ribeiro, Dickuis, Hainsey, Bouillon, Lind*, Locke, Balej, name it you know all the under-sized players. We can include injury-prone captain Koivu. The problem of size start here.

Bring size like 6' 5'' Primeau, bring Laperriere, let's build a fear team that can dance the waltz with Leafs. We ain't gonna win anything in playoffs with too much smurfs. Only super-speedy-fast talented players under 5'11'' are admitted. The rest have to be big, hard-workers and without fear.

* I know they are gone but look at riduculous this hab team was. We were that low.

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09-30-2003, 09:57 AM
  #25
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I agree, but only to a point...we need to maintain a certain level of skill and class as well. I don't want to become like the Leafs, who are full of the biggest cheap-shot artists in the league. I want to see a well balanced team. We do need some size to make some room for our smaller guys, there is no question about that. It's not even size though, it's just tough play really.

Cap

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