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Is the internal cap hurting the team?

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Old
12-01-2013, 05:51 PM
  #26
danielpalfredsson
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It's hurting the team the same way that bad contracts have hurt other teams. A few teams got lucky with the compliance buyouts, but in a way, Ottawa is better off, because if they are in a playoff spot, they can still theoretically add players at the deadline because they only theoretically need to pay 1/4th of the player's salary.

Ottawa doesn't need to be spending to the cap, but being unable to make one or two trades early in the season over the fact that they might bring in an extra 4 million in short term salary clearly handcuffs Bryan Murray.

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12-01-2013, 06:29 PM
  #27
StefanW
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The internal cap hurt us in massive ways. With a low payroll heading into the season, we could have capitalized on teams like Florida who are selling off assets. We could have picked up a D like Campbell (although salary still would have had to be retained to make it a sane deal), and maybe a winger who could help in the top 6 with 9MM sliding down to a 3rd line role. Additions like that would allow newer players, especially on D, to play more sheltered minutes until they learn a confident and simple game. A big problem this season is that we were forced to over-rely on young, cheap players who could not handle the roles they were forced to play.

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12-01-2013, 06:35 PM
  #28
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Maybe a little bit but I think our team has enough talent, skill and grit that we should be higher in the standings than we are currently.

I think tonight's game against Alfie will be a move forward for the team and less of a distraction for the rest of season. Hopefully a few more players play up to their capability.

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12-01-2013, 06:53 PM
  #29
Dionysus
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Yes, it is really hurting them.

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12-01-2013, 07:01 PM
  #30
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Faster Melynek sells this team or gets a partner faster we get a better atmosphere around the team and staff!

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12-01-2013, 07:13 PM
  #31
officeglen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topshelfie View Post
I think tonight's game against Alfie will be a move forward ...
Agreed, based on tonight's game it's time to move a forward

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12-01-2013, 07:33 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by StefanW View Post
The internal cap hurt us in massive ways. With a low payroll heading into the season, we could have capitalized on teams like Florida who are selling off assets. We could have picked up a D like Campbell (although salary still would have had to be retained to make it a sane deal), and maybe a winger who could help in the top 6 with 9MM sliding down to a 3rd line role. Additions like that would allow newer players, especially on D, to play more sheltered minutes until they learn a confident and simple game. A big problem this season is that we were forced to over-rely on young, cheap players who could not handle the roles they were forced to play.
This. The only consolation I hope is that this added pressure on the rookies will make them better in the long term rather than impact their development in a bad way.

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12-02-2013, 08:08 AM
  #33
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So far nobody has suggested a move they would have made.... Where are you spending the extra money? Who out there is worth the price tag or assets?

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12-02-2013, 08:14 AM
  #34
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It's the main reason the team can't win enough to keep pace.

Fact: The Sens have 9 million+ more in cap space than every team above them in the East.

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12-02-2013, 08:20 AM
  #35
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hurting it its killing it we need a top 6 forward and a top4 d...... hmmmmm let me think can we get both those things for 10mil? yes yes we could..... but were not going to..........at least not now or without having to auction other valuable pieces of the puzzle.... wait we can ship out spezza......but most of you would cry and swear the sky was falling....... but get rid of a deffensive blackhole bring in some more young guys who actually have a set of berrys between there legs and maybe there battle level helps the team.....of course having our ppg centre whos also a 1.5papg centre is far too important to our success......wait im rambling. Ill come back to point. yes yes it is.

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12-02-2013, 08:52 AM
  #36
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So far, the only name I am seeing is Brian Campbell. Florida would almost certainly want a young asset coming the other way. Does it really make any sense at all to send anything to Florida to get a guy who will earn $7 million plus for two more years after this one? Campbell is a guy you pick up at the deadline if you are a legitimate contender - that's it. Other than that, Florida can enjoy writing his cheques.

The reality is that most teams lock up their own free agents long term, so there isn't a lot on the market. The trade deadline this year might not even be that active, as the cap is going up next year. The urgency to clear salary won't be there like it was last year.

The budget question only comes in to play with guys like Bobby Ryan. If the Senators don't step up and make Bobby Ryan a VERY competitive offer this summer to sign an extension, then yes, we can rip Eugene for being cheap. Same goes for Clarke McArthur, whom I would also get extended ASAP. We absolutely need to look after our own core players, and one would agrue that with Spezza and Karlsson, Eugene showed that he was willing to do that. If being cheap, though, means not overpaying for aging UFAs, then I agree with our cheap owner.

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12-02-2013, 09:02 AM
  #37
83DIZ65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larionov View Post
So far, the only name I am seeing is Brian Campbell. Florida would almost certainly want a young asset coming the other way. Does it really make any sense at all to send anything to Florida to get a guy who will earn $7 million plus for two more years after this one? Campbell is a guy you pick up at the deadline if you are a legitimate contender - that's it. Other than that, Florida can enjoy writing his cheques.

The reality is that most teams lock up their own free agents long term, so there isn't a lot on the market. The trade deadline this year might not even be that active, as the cap is going up next year. The urgency to clear salary won't be there like it was last year.

The budget question only comes in to play with guys like Bobby Ryan. If the Senators don't step up and make Bobby Ryan a VERY competitive offer this summer to sign an extension, then yes, we can rip Eugene for being cheap. Same goes for Clarke McArthur, whom I would also get extended ASAP. We absolutely need to look after our own core players, and one would agrue that with Spezza and Karlsson, Eugene showed that he was willing to do that. If being cheap, though, means not overpaying for aging UFAs, then I agree with our cheap owner.

I dont want to over pay for aging player i just want to be able to afford solutions when they are presented.

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12-02-2013, 09:03 AM
  #38
NyQuil
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I honestly don't think this team would have resigned Gonchar and Alfie even if we'd had the money to do so.

Blaming the owner for what the players are doing on the ice is laughable.

It's mostly the same damned team, and the new guys have been playing very well.

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12-02-2013, 09:07 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
I honestly don't think this team would have resigned Gonchar and Alfie even if we'd had the money to do so.

Blaming the owner for what the players are doing on the ice is laughable.

It's mostly the same damned team, and the new guys have been playing very well.
I think this it. Money has become the easy thing to blame but nobody can point to anywhere in particular they would have spent the money.

We still have cap space to acquire a top 4 D or winger when the right deal becomes available. Until that time, money is a lame excuse for the team's performance.

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12-02-2013, 09:12 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by SenateReform View Post
I think this it. Money has become the easy thing to blame but nobody can point to anywhere in particular they would have spent the money.

We still have cap space to acquire a top 4 D or winger when the right deal becomes available. Until that time, money is a lame excuse for the team's performance.
Yes, but we don't have the cash for this. We're money in = money out, and that's very hard for BM to make any moves, most if any would just be lateral moves. Michalek consumes a huge amount of cash, but it's virtually impossible at this stage to move his $6m for someone who isn't really performing.

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12-02-2013, 09:14 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by SenateReform View Post
I think this it. Money has become the easy thing to blame but nobody can point to anywhere in particular they would have spent the money.

We still have cap space to acquire a top 4 D or winger when the right deal becomes available. Until that time, money is a lame excuse for the team's performance.
you might be right......but i gotta say itd be easyer to blame the team if they did spend to the cap...

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12-02-2013, 09:17 AM
  #42
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Yes, but we don't have the cash for this. We're money in = money out, and that's very hard for BM to make any moves, most if any would just be lateral moves. Michalek consumes a huge amount of cash, but it's virtually impossible at this stage to move his $6m for someone who isn't really performing.
This is the speculative part of the whole equation.

People assume that we can trade our way out of mediocrity.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I just think it's secondary to the real problem which is the consistency of all of our players.

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12-02-2013, 09:23 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
I honestly don't think this team would have resigned Gonchar and Alfie even if we'd had the money to do so.

Blaming the owner for what the players are doing on the ice is laughable.

It's mostly the same damned team, and the new guys have been playing very well.
Part of me thinks this team plus Gonchar and Alfie would have won a few more games by now and helped with the defensive issues. Losing two veterans is probably tough for a young team as well. I'm only speculating... it's hard to quantify this type of thing.

I don't think a magical trade will solve all of the problems... but if such a thing exists, it would be nice for the GM to have that option without being nickeled and dimed. This is behind the scenes stuff that I can only guess at though.

I dunno. The product stinks.

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12-02-2013, 09:30 AM
  #44
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The problem with Gonchar is that, even with no cap limit, I'm pretty sure the team saw him as expendable with Wiercioch coming into the mix. Corvo was meant to be insurance.

Ottawa probably would have signed Gonchar to a single year, but he got 2 in Dallas for $10 million.

When we let Volchenkov go, it wasn't for cap reasons - it was the fact that he was likely not going to be able to live up to his contract. I see Gonchar in the same light.

As for Alfredsson, that will always be the subject of debate, but the fact that Daniel didn't negotiate makes me think that his heart was set on playing for a veteran team whose organization is always thinking "Win the Cup".

The question mark going into the season was our young defence. Well, it's costing us games - along with a lack of defensive consistency from our forwards and unreliable special teams.

Welcome to the rebuild everyone.

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12-02-2013, 09:39 AM
  #45
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It looks like the Islanders are going through something very similar too... and they added Vanek and it changed nothing. Blah.

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12-02-2013, 09:50 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
This is the speculative part of the whole equation.

People assume that we can trade our way out of mediocrity.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I just think it's secondary to the real problem which is the consistency of all of our players.
Players are hugely inconsistent, I agree that is the main issue. I also think that making any team changing trade is not possible at this time, otherwise Murray would have done it.

If we could have Greening - Spezza - Michalek even playing anywhere close to their 11/12 season, hell even being +ve in the +/- would be a start. Then we'd be looking in better shape.

Team needs a 'skate in Central Park' moment to get some mojo back. Maybe they should go to Disney World, and stop being a Mickey Mouse team.

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12-02-2013, 10:25 AM
  #47
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Projected Cap Space versus Current Standings. You tell me if it makes a difference.
SalaryVsPlacing.JPG


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Old
12-02-2013, 10:28 AM
  #48
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The dumb part about your diagram is that a lot of the younger teams have lower cap hits.

It's not rocket science.

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12-02-2013, 10:30 AM
  #49
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Current Cap Spending versus Current Standings. You tell me if it makes a difference.
Attachment 68877
That's pretty compelling that you need to spend money to succeed

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12-02-2013, 10:35 AM
  #50
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That's pretty compelling that you need to spend money to succeed
So, we're just going to create a veteran team out of thin air from the cast-off remnants of other teams?

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