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In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) XLVI

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Old
12-03-2013, 09:51 AM
  #76
Mystic MacK
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Originally Posted by The Mars Volchenkov View Post
Kulikov is really living off his name on this board. His actual play is not that good.

MacKinnon will be the best player on this team in the near future.
It's kind of amazing how much value his name alone has given him here the last couple years.

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Old
12-03-2013, 09:52 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by The Mars Volchenkov View Post
Kulikov is really living off his name on this board. His actual play is not that good.

MacKinnon will be the best player on this team in the near future.
I'm glad the Avs didn't do the trade, as I think Mack will be by far the best player for that draft(At least of the forwards, Jones is looking damn good so far as well).


But, I don't think Mack will be as good as Duchene. The level of play we saw from Duchene before the Oblique injury was astonishing. He was playing at a Top 5 player in the league level before the injury. If he can get back to that level and sustain it I don't think Mack will ever come to that level.



Its gonna be ridiculous in a few years though, having Mack and Dutchy centering our Top 2 lines. Hopefully with ROR and Landy on there Wings. That's simply not fair to other teams having to face those 2 lines on a nightly basis. Then if we have Stas as our 3C shutdown guy as well...

Not fair at all. The Avs will be just as dominate as they were in the late 90's/early 00's in the very near future.

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Old
12-03-2013, 09:55 AM
  #78
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People are underrating Barkov. He is going to be an awesome player in this league. He won't have the offensive ceiling that MacKinnon has, but should be a solid 70 point scorer and provide great defense along with it. He would have fit great behind Duchene as the #2C for a long time. Barkov is probably a better fit for Florida because he will probably be a more well-rounded #1C for them than MacKinnon would have been. MacKinnon is a better fit for the Avs that don't need MacKinnon to be a great defensive center for a while, and can use his much higher offensive ceiling.

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Old
12-03-2013, 09:56 AM
  #79
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Kulikov was good as a rookie/sophomore. But sometimes players don't develop properly. He's not really better now than he was back then. He still has a good set of tools but the decision making might not be there.

@GeorgeRichards:

#FlaPanthers coach Peter Horachek confirms Dmitry Kukikov scratched v #Sens ... 'needs to be accountable.'


Last edited by Freudian: 12-03-2013 at 10:22 AM.
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Old
12-03-2013, 01:37 PM
  #80
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That trade would only make sense to me if we wanted Jones. And wanting Jones would still make a lot of sense.

I'm happy MacKinnon is on this team, but if management wanted Jones and acquired him along with another asset, I'd be happy.

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12-03-2013, 01:54 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
People are underrating Barkov. He is going to be an awesome player in this league. He won't have the offensive ceiling that MacKinnon has, but should be a solid 70 point scorer and provide great defense along with it. He would have fit great behind Duchene as the #2C for a long time. Barkov is probably a better fit for Florida because he will probably be a more well-rounded #1C for them than MacKinnon would have been. MacKinnon is a better fit for the Avs that don't need MacKinnon to be a great defensive center for a while, and can use his much higher offensive ceiling.
Honestly I think you're under-rating him as well. Barkov's cerebral play in the zone with that size and passing ability, Barkov can definitely become a PPG player. Now MacK's ceiling is even greater, but both are absolutely special. MacK has sold me and I wouldn't have given up that pick for just kulikov, but if they had offered Huberdeau and a Campbell/Wilson swap, it would've been too good to pass up even though I wholeheartedly believe MacK will end up a faster and less-*********gey version of Roenick.

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Old
12-03-2013, 02:04 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
Honestly I think you're under-rating him as well. Barkov's cerebral play in the zone with that size and passing ability, Barkov can definitely become a PPG player. Now MacK's ceiling is even greater, but both are absolutely special. MacK has sold me and I wouldn't have given up that pick for just kulikov, but if they had offered Huberdeau and a Campbell/Wilson swap, it would've been too good to pass up even though I wholeheartedly believe MacK will end up a faster and less-*********gey version of Roenick.
tallon should've been fired from the spot if he offered that.

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Old
12-03-2013, 02:13 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
tallon should've been fired from the spot if he offered that.
Yup, but with how hard I've fallen for MacK, that's what it'd take for me to give him up.

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Old
12-03-2013, 02:15 PM
  #84
henchman24
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
Honestly I think you're under-rating him as well. Barkov's cerebral play in the zone with that size and passing ability, Barkov can definitely become a PPG player. Now MacK's ceiling is even greater, but both are absolutely special. MacK has sold me and I wouldn't have given up that pick for just kulikov, but if they had offered Huberdeau and a Campbell/Wilson swap, it would've been too good to pass up even though I wholeheartedly believe MacK will end up a faster and less-*********gey version of Roenick.
I just don't see that many PPG players in the NHL as it stands today. We are entering a second dead puck era and the numbers that were put up in 05-06, are not going to happen with the way the game is played and officiated currently. Right now I would say Crosby, Ovi, Malkin, Tavares, Spezza, Giroux, Kane, St. Louis, Datsyuk, and maybe Kessel and Towes are the PPG players in the NHL (I might be missing couple). MacKinnon easily has the talent to be in that group, and I expect him to be there.

I don't see Barkov having the talent to be on that level. I see him on the next tier with players like Kopitar, Staal, Thornton, Getzlaf, etc. Players who might crack that PPG mark on a high season or two (or shortened seasons), but are mainly ~70-75 point players.

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12-03-2013, 02:21 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
I just don't see that many PPG players in the NHL as it stands today. We are entering a second dead puck era and the numbers that were put up in 05-06, are not going to happen with the way the game is played and officiated currently. Right now I would say Crosby, Ovi, Malkin, Tavares, Spezza, Giroux, Kane, St. Louis, Datsyuk, and maybe Kessel and Towes are the PPG players in the NHL (I might be missing couple). MacKinnon easily has the talent to be in that group, and I expect him to be there.

I don't see Barkov having the talent to be on that level. I see him on the next tier with players like Kopitar, Staal, Thornton, Getzlaf, etc. Players who might crack that PPG mark on a high season or two (or shortened seasons), but are mainly ~70-75 point players.
getzlaf should definitely be on that ppg group.

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12-03-2013, 02:21 PM
  #86
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I've always wondered how Barkov would have fit in with the identity of the team. MacKinnon just perfectly fits in with Duchene and Landy from a team speed standpoint and also a marketing standpoint. I know Barkov was a great pick and an asset to any team but would he have fit as well as MacKinnon has? Would the identity have changed?

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Old
12-03-2013, 02:22 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
I just don't see that many PPG players in the NHL as it stands today. We are entering a second dead puck era and the numbers that were put up in 05-06, are not going to happen with the way the game is played and officiated currently. Right now I would say Crosby, Ovi, Malkin, Tavares, Spezza, Giroux, Kane, St. Louis, Datsyuk, and maybe Kessel and Towes are the PPG players in the NHL (I might be missing couple). MacKinnon easily has the talent to be in that group, and I expect him to be there.

I don't see Barkov having the talent to be on that level. I see him on the next tier with players like Kopitar, Staal, Thornton, Getzlaf, etc. Players who might crack that PPG mark on a high season or two (or shortened seasons), but are mainly ~70-75 point players.
Jumbo joe has been at least close to PPG in every season other than 2010-2011 since going to SJ. Getzlaf has been over a PPG pace in 5 of his past 6 season. Barkov can have that kind of production, especially with Hubby on his wing for the foreseeable future.

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Old
12-03-2013, 02:28 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Tigervixxen View Post
I've always wondered how Barkov would have fit in with the identity of the team. MacKinnon just perfectly fits in with Duchene and Landy from a team speed standpoint and also a marketing standpoint. I know Barkov was a great pick and an asset to any team but would he have fit as well as MacKinnon has? Would the identity have changed?
That's actually a factor I like, he'd have made our core in more versatile, Duchene, Stastny/O'Reilly and Barkov up the middle is an incredibly variable group that can play any type of game and is great defensively. If they had offered hubs instead of kuli I'd probably have pulled the trigger the more I think about it. 3 completely different, reliable, tough and skilled duos that can do it all.

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12-03-2013, 02:34 PM
  #89
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Eklund.....

Quote:
Just an update...but talking to sources all day I am hearing more and more that the Avalanche and the Canadiens are discussing what one source called, "A Patrick Roy Statement Trade" and another said would be considered "The trade to really kick off what will be the craziest of trade seasons."

The deal would send two players to Montreal and as many as four to Colorado, and could occur as early as mid-December or as late as mid-January, but would not be a deal that would wait for the deadline. In fact, the deal would set up another trade for each team.
oh boy.

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Old
12-03-2013, 02:38 PM
  #90
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getzlaf should definitely be on that ppg group.
I could concede Getz. To me he is on the fringe because he has yet to play at a PPG pace over a full 82 game season since 10-11, but like I said, I can concede him being in that group.

I don't value PPG pace nearly as much as others do. PPG pace over 40/50/60 games is not equal to PPG pace over 82 games.

Quote:
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Jumbo joe has been at least close to PPG in every season other than 2010-2011 since going to SJ. Getzlaf has been over a PPG pace in 5 of his past 6 season. Barkov can have that kind of production, especially with Hubby on his wing for the foreseeable future.
I don't see Thornton in that group anymore. Age is starting to catch up with him. His last PPG season was 09-10 and has been in the 70 ever since. Still 70 points is a damn good number.

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12-03-2013, 02:41 PM
  #91
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Hey guys, new Avs poster here. What would you guys think of a deal around John Moore or Despres for McGinn?

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12-03-2013, 02:43 PM
  #92
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Hey guys, new Avs poster here. What would you guys think of a deal around John Moore or Despres for McGinn?
value isn't bad but avs forward group would be pretty shallow after that and lack physicality too much imo.

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12-03-2013, 02:43 PM
  #93
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Eklund.....



oh boy.
Fun! Speculation!

I'll kick this off with:

Subban + Pacioretty for EJ + McGinn + PAP + Elliott

Not a serious trade proposal.

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12-03-2013, 02:45 PM
  #94
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Fun! Speculation!

I'll kick this off with:

Subban + Pacioretty for EJ + McGinn + PAP + Elliott

Not a serious trade proposal.
You've got it backwards.

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12-03-2013, 02:47 PM
  #95
henchman24
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You've got it backwards.
Damn! Reading is apparently not my strong suit today.

Just add Bournival and Gallager to the Canadians side and subtract EJ and PAP from the Avs side.

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12-03-2013, 02:49 PM
  #96
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I could concede Getz. To me he is on the fringe because he has yet to play at a PPG pace over a full 82 game season since 10-11, but like I said, I can concede him being in that group.

I don't value PPG pace nearly as much as others do. PPG pace over 40/50/60 games is not equal to PPG pace over 82 games.
same applies to kane (i think he should be there, though).

Toews has NEVER been ppg player over full season. (and if one is to nitpick that guy who has the best contract eva)

i don't think it's fair to put him in ppg group while not putting getz there who has been ppg for 6 of last 5 seasons.

even if toews got maybe tag with him .

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12-03-2013, 02:54 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
same applies to kane (i think he should be there, though).

Toews has NEVER been ppg player over full season. (and if one is to nitpick that guy who has the best contract eva)

i don't think it's fair to put him in ppg group while not putting getz there who has been ppg for 6 of last 5 seasons.

even if toews got maybe tag with him .
Geeze... nit-picky are we?

Fair point on Toews, but that is why he did get that maybe tag. I see him as a PPG player going forward with Chicago. I don't think he will ever hit 90, but should be around 80 most seasons provided he can stay healthy... which seems like an impossibility sometimes.

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12-03-2013, 03:00 PM
  #98
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I could actually see Roy trying to get a Subban type player. And one of our core guys going the other way.

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12-03-2013, 03:01 PM
  #99
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Eklund.....



oh boy.
If we give up two players for four back, it means we lose the trade since we're giving up the more valuable players. Do not like.

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Old
12-03-2013, 03:04 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
I could concede Getz. To me he is on the fringe because he has yet to play at a PPG pace over a full 82 game season since 10-11, but like I said, I can concede him being in that group.

I don't value PPG pace nearly as much as others do. PPG pace over 40/50/60 games is not equal to PPG pace over 82 games.



I don't see Thornton in that group anymore. Age is starting to catch up with him. His last PPG season was 09-10 and has been in the 70 ever since. Still 70 points is a damn good number.
For a guy who's still proving he's of that level I get that. But Getz has shown before that he can pass the number, so I'm fine with giving him credit for PPG in the two 65-70 game seasons, and the lockout season. He's a PPG guy in my eyes.

I was off on Thornton, I thought he was in the upper 40's last year to go with 77 the year before, still he was a PPG guy for many many years, and I think Barkov can absolutely follow in the path guy of Getz and Jumbo Joe.

Quote:
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Damn! Reading is apparently not my strong suit today.

Just add Bournival and Gallager to the Canadians side and subtract EJ and PAP from the Avs side.
Sounds good to me.

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