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2014 — Finland Roster Discussion (Part II) (Released, post #1)

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12-03-2013, 06:30 AM
  #26
teddy83
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Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
Two cylinders of three would be choking slow and they would get blown by and out.
Have you watched any of Barkov's games??? Or you just watch the stats and say random things? He wins almost all battles along the boards and keeps the cycle going.

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12-03-2013, 06:37 AM
  #27
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The only excuse to leave Määttä out would be his lack of experience, but even that wouldn't cut it with me. He's needed. Period. Picking someone like Nummelin over him would be pure horse ****.
Maatta has won 2 OHL championships, and played in 2 memorial cups, and that's a big deal, even though nobody in finland doesn't seem to realize that, so i don't buy the lack of experience crap. Those things are bigger then some EHT-tournaments.

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12-03-2013, 07:05 AM
  #28
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Erkka Westerlund in today's HS: "About six." -when asked about how many players from Liiga will be in Sochi. SIX?? Are out of your ********** mind?!

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12-03-2013, 07:35 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
Erkka Westerlund in today's HS: "About six." -when asked about how many players from Liiga will be in Sochi. SIX?? Are out of your ********** mind?!
From Lüga alone? Not from Europe altogether? Väänänen, Kukkonen, Karalahti, Nummelin, Hagman and Aaltonen. If he really said 6, Nummelin has got to be included because I can only think of 2 forwards.

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12-03-2013, 07:41 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Gaps View Post
From Lüga alone? Not from Europe altogether? Väänänen, Kukkonen, Karalahti, Nummelin, Hagman and Aaltonen. If he really said 6, Nummelin has got to be included because I can only think of 2 forwards.
Yes, from Lüga alone: Väänänen, Hagman, Kukkonen, Alltonen, Pyörälä, Rynnäs were the names speculated by Ari Pusa in HS.

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12-03-2013, 07:51 AM
  #31
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Yes, from Lüga alone: Väänänen, Hagman, Kukkonen, Alltonen, Pyörälä, Rynnäs were the names speculated by Ari Pusa in HS.
I don't know why he'd insist on Rynnäs. We have better goalies even in Europe. Bringing along all of Pyörälä, Hagman and Aaltonen would mean 1-2 of them would have to be playing instead of in the pressbox. I don't like the sound of that because unless there are injuries, none of those three belong in the top 12. Who are you going to leave out to get all of these guys in, assuming the Golden Oldies are untouchable?

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12-03-2013, 09:40 AM
  #32
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Here is the story.

So... hmm. Erkka seems to think there is no point in hauling a bench-warmer goalie from across the pond. It's nothing new really. Let's keep in mind that in 2006, his initial picks were Kiprusoff, Lehtonen and Norrena. When Kipper put forward his famous declination, Erkka bumped Lehtonen to #1, Norrena to #2 and chose Bäckström (who was not as high-profile back then) as the new reserve. Only after Lehtonen declined too, he picked Niittymäki.

Those two D are no-brainers as well, but three forwards does sound a bit steep. Then again, he could be thinking that there's no point to take a pair pressbox guys from the NHL.

Let's also keep in mind that the man is a total chemistry nut. Pyörälä - Kontiola - Aaltonen formed a good line at the Karjala Tournament, so maybe he wants to utilize them as an unit.

Hagman could also be a sign that he considers dropping Teemu.


Anyway, lineup with this knowledge...

Filppula - M.Koivu - Ruutu
Granlund - O.Jokinen - J.Jokinen
Pyörälä - Kontiola - Aaltonen
Komarov - S.Koivu - Korpikoski

Hagman and your choice as extras.


With Aaltonen in, guess we can consider Kontiola a lock as well. Also, sounds pretty nuts that only one of Barkov/Bergenheim/Joensuu is potentially going to make it. Or none, if he wants to hold the Selänne option still open.

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12-03-2013, 09:48 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by FiLe View Post
Here is the story.

So... hmm. Erkka seems to think there is no point in hauling a bench-warmer goalie from across the pond. It's nothing new really. Let's keep in mind that in 2006, his initial picks were Kiprusoff, Lehtonen and Norrena. When Kipper put forward his famous declination, Erkka bumped Lehtonen to #1, Norrena to #2 and chose Bäckström (who was not as high-profile back then) as the new reserve. Only after Lehtonen declined too, he picked Niittymäki.

Those two D are no-brainers as well, but three forwards does sound a bit steep. Then again, he could be thinking that there's no point to take a pair pressbox guys from the NHL.

Let's also keep in mind that the man is a total chemistry nut. Pyörälä - Kontiola - Aaltonen formed a good line at the Karjala Tournament, so maybe he wants to utilize them as an unit.

Hagman could also be a sign that he considers dropping Teemu.


Anyway, lineup with this knowledge...

Filppula - M.Koivu - Ruutu
Granlund - O.Jokinen - J.Jokinen
Pyörälä - Kontiola - Aaltonen
Komarov - S.Koivu - Korpikoski

Hagman and your choice as extras.


With Aaltonen in, guess we can consider Kontiola a lock as well. Also, sounds pretty nuts that only one of Barkov/Bergenheim/Joensuu is potentially going to make it. Or none, if he wants to hold the Selänne option still open.
It's still long way to 1st line for Ruutu... have we talked about this? Swap JJ and Ruutu, and its better. First line needs the player with good shot and JJ has better.

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12-03-2013, 09:58 AM
  #34
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It's still long way to 1st line for Ruutu... have we talked about this? Swap JJ and Ruutu, and its better. First line needs the player with good shot and JJ has better.
Lid it. I'm not going to swap anything because it's an Erkka-projection, not personal fantasy. If Ruutu's healthy, he's gonna make it. Period. We all know that despite some of us hoping something else.

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12-03-2013, 10:13 AM
  #35
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Wau if Pyörälä makes it gonna make all predictions kinky. Erkka has more balls than i thought if his going to drop Selänne which by the looks of it should be the right decicion. I also read somewhere that Erkka makes sochi lineups everyday himself and changes them. So that around 6 players is nowhere near the final but close to it anyway.

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12-03-2013, 10:41 AM
  #36
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Apparently in Erkka's eyes it's ok to be mediocre as long as you have the experience. By this I mean Pyörälä and to a lesser extent Hagman. If you take Pyörälä, why not Janne Pesonen while you're at it?

Also, by bringing along all of these guys and Teemu, there would be no space for an extra center. Of course you could move someone like Filppula to center if needed, but it would mean more line shuffling. Not a good strategy IMO.

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12-03-2013, 01:39 PM
  #37
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What's wrong with Erkka, seriously? Taking those three forwrds from Lüga would be just an act of irrationality.

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12-03-2013, 02:39 PM
  #38
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X - Mikko Koivu - Valtteri Filppula
X - Olli Jokinen - X
Mika Pyörälä - Petri Kontiola - Juhamatti Aaltonen
Leo Komarov - Saku Koivu - X
13th Niklas Hagman
14th X
(15th) X

Kimmo Timonen - Sami Salo
Ossi Väänänen - Sami Vatanen
X - X
7th X
(8th) X

Tuukka Rask
X
3rd Jussi Rynnäs



From info that Erkka has given team shape starting to look like that. kukkonen and jussi jokinens co etc will be on team but yet to be seen where.

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12-03-2013, 04:54 PM
  #39
FiLe
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Originally Posted by Gaps View Post
Apparently in Erkka's eyes it's ok to be mediocre as long as you have the experience. By this I mean Pyörälä and to a lesser extent Hagman. If you take Pyörälä, why not Janne Pesonen while you're at it?
Quote:
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What's wrong with Erkka, seriously? Taking those three forwrds from Lüga would be just an act of irrationality.
You know, while I certainly could and probably will disagree with his individual player choices, it is far more harder to argue with the logic behind it.

Might as well face it: Even if we bring along our 20 best individual skaters, they still won't hold up in comparison to most of the other elite countries. That is why one must take those players that have the best possibilities to form as cohesive units as possible. There certainly is an advantage to be exploited here. Sure, a third line of say, Joensuu - Barkov - Bergenheim would contain slightly better individuals than Pyörälä - Kontiola - Aaltonen, but the latter has far more common history and no need to acclimate to the big ice. It's an unit that can potentially be more than just the sum of its parts.

Though I will be pretty stark mad if he overblows it and sacrifices too much individual skill for the sake of chemistry. Like, say, replacing Granlund with Hagman in that above projection of mine.


Last edited by FiLe: 12-03-2013 at 05:00 PM.
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12-04-2013, 01:58 AM
  #40
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For the Nth time, Erkka won't break up Ruutu and Koivu and more than Jalonen would have. I won't harp on anyone's personal perspections, but for situations one intends to project Erkka, just drop this little fantasy already.
Not that I disagree, but has Erkka said anything that would indicate this?

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12-04-2013, 02:09 AM
  #41
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Not that I disagree, but has Erkka said anything that would indicate this?
No he hasn't. But knowing the man, the news would be if he actually said otherwise.

Personally, I'd have no issue if he put another man in the slot supposedly earmarked for Ruutu. But if he did, it'd be a pretty big surprise.

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12-04-2013, 02:33 AM
  #42
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No he hasn't. But knowing the man, the news would be if he actually said otherwise.

Personally, I'd have no issue if he put another man in the slot supposedly earmarked for Ruutu. But if he did, it'd be a pretty big surprise.
Yeah, I think the Ruutu-Koivu chemistry is a tad overrated. I'd try, say Granlund in Ruutu's spot. But that's just me.

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12-04-2013, 02:55 AM
  #43
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Yeah, I think the Ruutu-Koivu chemistry is a tad overrated. I'd try, say Granlund in Ruutu's spot. But that's just me.
If by "tad overrated" you mean that they've never been a damage duo in the same mold as say, Saku and Teemu were, I agree.

But that would require for someone to rank them as high. Which I honestly haven't seen. Simply calling them consistent performers together is not overrating.


If we had a clearly better forward than Ruutu, then it might be prudent to try him in that slot. But we haven't got one, really. Most people seem to be wanting J.Jokinen in his stead, but honestly, he's not an improvement over Ruutu. Never has been. Not worse though either, just pretty much more or less on the same line. And while someone might say Jokinen has been better this season, well, let's keep in mind yet again that one is just coming off an injury and other has been healthy and playing next to Geno Malkin.

Now that they're both at full health, let's imagine a situation where they'd be put next to a good centre but not a superstar, for example Petri Kontiola. You'd probably get quite similar stats from both. As you would get if you put them next to M.Koivu too - save for the chemistry advantage Ruutu has, which still tips the scale for him.

Now, Granlund... he is possibly a better forward than either Ruutu or Jokinen. So trying him there is not against this logic. Of course, one might wonder if the line would be balanced with three playmakers (if we are to presume that Flip would be on the other wing), but that is a topic for whole another debate.


Last edited by FiLe: 12-04-2013 at 05:43 AM.
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12-04-2013, 03:23 AM
  #44
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Pretty much as you said.

Koivu is kind of a difficult guy to find chemistry with, so Ruutu is the safest bet. Still, I'd rather see them try Granlund in his place. They've played some shifts together in Finland jersey and IIRC they looked good. I don't think it would be a problem if we had 3 playmakers on the same line. All 3 guys can score, too.

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12-04-2013, 05:04 AM
  #45
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Erkka's talked a lot about chemistry between players and he also mentioned personal relationships in one interview last spring. If I were to build our 1st line based on those factors alone, I'd go with Ruutu and Granlund as Koivu's wingers.

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12-04-2013, 06:00 AM
  #46
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Koivu and Granlund play in the same club team, but they hardly play together. Some say that they looked together when they shared shifts in the 2012 WHC, but that's really no grounds for trying Granlund. Because, you see, while MK and MG did look good together when on the ice at the same time, Koivu played consistently through the whole tournament with Filppula and looked even better.

Of course, Flip in his current form might be a solid and balancing act in just about any line. So trying him in 2nd next to Jokinen wouldn't probably be a bad call either, given how high maintenance OJ famously is.

It would have been interesting to see Filppula down the middle, but I guess that won't happen. It's starting to look like a pretty safe bet that Erkka intends to go with M.Koivu-OJ-Kontiola-S.Koivu as the centre setup.

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12-04-2013, 06:40 AM
  #47
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I was actually talking more about the personal relationships part, because like you said, the sample size with Granlund on the ice is small. But Granlund is Koivu's apprentice, if that's what you want to call it, and they like each other. I'm willing to bet Granlund knows exactly how he operates. Better than Filppula? Hard to say, but it's possible.

Nevertheless I think the 2nd line is going to cause a lot more headache to us than the 1st one. The best wingers for OJ would probably be JJ and Ruutu, but it's unlikely he will play with both of them.


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12-04-2013, 06:56 AM
  #48
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While Granlund and Koivu haven't played much together (I think they've had a few shifts this season together as coach Yeo loves to juggle the lines), they still play for the same club team - it helps.

I would be fine with Ruutu - Koivu - Granlund.

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12-04-2013, 07:35 AM
  #49
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Nevertheless I think the 2nd line is going to cause a lot more headache to us than the 1st one. The best wingers for OJ would probably be JJ and Ruutu, but it's unlikely he will play with both of them.
You know, I think Filppula could actually be a great match with OJ. No matter whether he's centre or wing, the guy can hustle, plays solid two-way game, can back up anyone's defensive shortcomings, be always on the right spot on the ice no matter which end, feed his linemates, and bury it when the occasion calls for it. His biggest strength is that he's got no major weaknesses - the perfect utility forward.

And that pretty much makes him Ville Peltonen 2.0.

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12-04-2013, 09:16 AM
  #50
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Finland's first line in Sotchi's Olympic Games in 2014:

Filppula-M.Koivu-O.Jokinen

Second line:

J.Jokinen-Granlund-Ruutu/Korpikoski/Selänne

Comments?!

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