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2014 — Finland Roster Discussion (Part II) (Released, post #1)

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Old
12-11-2013, 04:07 AM
  #101
FiLe
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
Isn't Maatta more than just an option? The way Jussi Jokinen made it sound, it seemed like he is more of a lock than just some option.
Yes, he should be a lock.

Our coach, however, is a creature who at least partially lives in the past, so some of us won't relax until we see his name on the list.

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12-11-2013, 04:16 AM
  #102
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Our coach, however, is a creature who at least partially lives in the past, so some of us won't relax until we see his name on the list.
This. Westerlund would be an absolute idiot to leave Määttä out of the team based on his age and "inexperience". But who knows.

Also, Jussi Jokinen isn't exactly an authority on who's a lock and who isnt'. (See: Olympics, 2010)

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12-11-2013, 08:07 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by FiLe View Post

You admit that you haven't seen that much of him, but you still pass judgment? Okay. By the way, if I only look at what M.Koivu has done in some pivotal points since 2012, I could say that the guy is a born loser because he first failed to drag his team to medals in 2012 WHC, and hasn't been all that successful in leading a playoff campaign either.

The bottom line is that Kontiola is up there for a reason, and that reason is good play against variety of good opponents in 2010, 2012 and 2013 WHCs, plus consistently good performance on EHT, plus being a leading forward on a rather mediocre KHL team for a handful of seasons in a row now. Him mailing it in in those two games last is not going to turn that all over. If you haven't seen all that and base your argument on what he did over a period of two weeks in last spring (even most of which was good rather than bad, btw), all I've got to say to you is to get out of here before you embarrass yourself even more.

By the way, given how the guy is a through-and-through centre, I don't want to see him as a winger in any line, even the 4th.
He probably played best hockey of his career in those group matches in whc. Or is it too farfetch'd? So if that is he's ceiling i don't have him in the top 3-lines in the OLYMPICS, and i think we have players that is better suited in that 4th line role, albeit i don't know is Erkka going to have a "checking" line or not. And i don't have any problems if Kontiola is the number 1 or 2C in WHC, Olympics is a diffrent story.

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12-11-2013, 09:12 AM
  #104
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All the injuries to Pens dmen have been great for the Finns, Maatta has being getting top 4 minutes and times on both special teams whereas the start of the season he was getting bottom pairing minutes with occasional PP time.

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12-11-2013, 09:27 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by teddy83 View Post
He probably played best hockey of his career in those group matches in whc. Or is it too farfetch'd? So if that is he's ceiling i don't have him in the top 3-lines in the OLYMPICS, and i think we have players that is better suited in that 4th line role, albeit i don't know is Erkka going to have a "checking" line or not. And i don't have any problems if Kontiola is the number 1 or 2C in WHC, Olympics is a diffrent story.
Last spring was the current peak of a rather successful career, yes. But neither you nor I can say whether it was his ceiling or not. We can only determine that when we see him play on that next step.

And since he's gone through all the necessary hoops a non-NHLer needs to clear to deserve that shot, there's a good chance that we will. And that is why so many people have him in their lineups. You can base your own thoughts on whatever narrow viewport you have on him, maybe they turn out to be true. But some of us figure that he can put up a successful performance in the olympics as well, since there are some very good reasons to believe so.


And one last thing: If you keep arguing that Kontiola shouldn't make it, always, always, name your replacement. Because the way things stand, I don't see how he's going to get dropped. Now, we'll have M.Koivu and O.Jokinen as 1C and 2C, respectively. Filppula could play C, but he's too good to be wasted outside the top-six, so he'll slink into wing here. Same goes for Granlund.

For bottom-six, we have Saku. That means there's still room for two centres in the squad, one for 3rd/4th line and one extra. The best names to take for those two slots? Kontiola and Barkov.


Last edited by FiLe: 12-11-2013 at 10:13 AM.
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12-11-2013, 10:43 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by FiLe View Post
Last spring was the current peak of a rather successful career, yes. But neither you nor I can say whether it was his ceiling or not. We can only determine that when we see him play on that next step.

And since he's gone through all the necessary hoops a non-NHLer needs to clear to deserve that shot, there's a good chance that we will. And that is why so many people have him in their lineups. You can base your own thoughts on whatever narrow viewport you have on him, maybe they turn out to be true. But some of us figure that he can put up a successful performance in the olympics as well, since there are some very good reasons to believe so.


And one last thing: If you keep arguing that Kontiola shouldn't make it, always, always, name your replacement. Because the way things stand, I don't see how he's going to get dropped. Now, we'll have M.Koivu and O.Jokinen as 1C and 2C, respectively. Filppula could play C, but he's too good to be wasted outside the top-six, so he'll slink into wing here. Same goes for Granlund.

For bottom-six, we have Saku. That means there's still room for two centres in the squad, one for 3rd/4th line and one extra. The best names to take for those two slots? Kontiola and Barkov.
I Have M. Koivu, Filppula, O. Jokinen and S. Koivu. I have Kontiola at the pressbox, or you could put Barkov there.
I think Filppula is much better as a center than a winger.

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12-11-2013, 10:53 AM
  #107
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http://www.iltalehti.fi/jaakiekko/20...23452_jk.shtml

Niki Juusela will be the commentator for the Finnish games.

No Mertaranta

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12-11-2013, 11:18 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by JJTT View Post
http://www.iltalehti.fi/jaakiekko/20...23452_jk.shtml

Niki Juusela will be the commentator for the Finnish games.

No Mertaranta
How is this a good news?

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Old
12-11-2013, 11:44 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by teddy83 View Post
I Have M. Koivu, Filppula, O. Jokinen and S. Koivu. I have Kontiola at the pressbox, or you could put Barkov there.
I think Filppula is much better as a center than a winger.
One could get more out of Filppula down the middle, true. But removing him from wing means you'll have to conjure up a solid offensive top-six winger from somewhere.

In the end, I'd rather have Filppula on wing and Kontiola down the middle, than Filppula at C and someone like Aaltonen in the lineup with Kontiola nowhere to be seen. Though JMA, too, may end up being there anyway.

As a side note, if you have the centres set up like that, where do you have Selänne? Not on 4th line with Saku, I presume. In the top-six? Not going to be able to handle the minutes. With OJ then? Newsflash: Those two have zero chemistry. You clearly haven't thought this all through.

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12-11-2013, 02:06 PM
  #110
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One could get more out of Filppula down the middle, true. But removing him from wing means you'll have to conjure up a solid offensive top-six winger from somewhere.

In the end, I'd rather have Filppula on wing and Kontiola down the middle, than Filppula at C and someone like Aaltonen in the lineup with Kontiola nowhere to be seen. Though JMA, too, may end up being there anyway.

As a side note, if you have the centres set up like that, where do you have Selänne? Not on 4th line with Saku, I presume. In the top-six? Not going to be able to handle the minutes. With OJ then? Newsflash: Those two have zero chemistry. You clearly haven't thought this all through.
I actually have Selanne with Filppula and Granlund in the second line, hoping that Granlund is healthy. I have OJ with Korpikoski and Komarov and S Koivu with some sort of mix between Joensuu, Hagman, Bergenheim, Hartikainen or Pihlstrom.

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12-11-2013, 03:08 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by teddy83 View Post
I actually have Selanne with Filppula and Granlund in the second line, hoping that Granlund is healthy. I have OJ with Korpikoski and Komarov and S Koivu with some sort of mix between Joensuu, Hagman, Bergenheim, Hartikainen or Pihlstrom.
That's pretty decent chemistrywise, at least in theory. I'll give you that.

In reality though, even more than hoping for healthy Granlund, you should hope that the lackluster Selänne we've been seeing lately is simply saving himself for February. Because frankly, he does not any more look like someone who can handle second line minutes in a short and intense tournament where a team plays 6-7 games in ten days' time.

And in such a scenario, I'd much rather have Filppula at wing and someone else down the middle, so Kontiola is really not a bad option in a situation like that. So if I'm hoping that Kontiola can be a solid performer in the olympics, yours is equally based on wishful thinking.

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12-11-2013, 04:30 PM
  #112
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For whatever it's worth, I heard some info on Maatta. I was watching the broadcast of the Pens-Jackets game on Monday, and they started talking about Maatta. One of the NBC guys said that he talked to Kekalainen about him. Apparently, Kekalainen told him that Maatta is going to Sochi with Finland.

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12-11-2013, 07:10 PM
  #113
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Good new is that Granlund has been skating past couple of days on his own, so hopefully he can return soon and maybe Erkka isn't afraid to take him..

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12-12-2013, 03:44 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by IAmError29 View Post
For whatever it's worth, I heard some info on Maatta. I was watching the broadcast of the Pens-Jackets game on Monday, and they started talking about Maatta. One of the NBC guys said that he talked to Kekalainen about him. Apparently, Kekalainen told him that Maatta is going to Sochi with Finland.
At this point it would be more of a surprise if Määttä wasn't going. He shouldn't see pressbox time either. Now I'm keeping my fingers crossed Ristolainen really impresses in the only Euro Hockey Tour game he plays (as well as the WJC) and he takes a spot as an extra dman in Sochi.

Here are my current thoughts on the D pairings:

(What they will likely look like

Timonen-Salo
Väänänen-Vatanen
Määttä-Kukkonen)

How I would do them:

Timonen-Määttä
Salo-Vatanen
Kukkonen-Väänänen

I think in this case we could minimize Kukkonen and Väänänen's ice time with the two youngsters being paired with the best defensemen we have. Yes, the first pairing has two LDs and the 2nd one two righties, but it doesn't matter that much on ES, only on the PP. As for the extras, I'm thinking two out of Lepistö/Karalahti/Ristolainen.

----------



Erkka may be a little out of the loop, but Teemu and Saku are living in 2013 and sounds like they have decided Mikko will captain the team:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/wild/235509281.html (original)

http://www.hs.fi/urheilu/Sel%C3%A4nn...a1386815139631 (HS referencing Russo)


Last edited by Gaps: 12-12-2013 at 04:07 AM.
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Old
12-12-2013, 04:48 AM
  #115
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That's pretty decent chemistrywise, at least in theory. I'll give you that.

In reality though, even more than hoping for healthy Granlund, you should hope that the lackluster Selänne we've been seeing lately is simply saving himself for February. Because frankly, he does not any more look like someone who can handle second line minutes in a short and intense tournament where a team plays 6-7 games in ten days' time.

And in such a scenario, I'd much rather have Filppula at wing and someone else down the middle, so Kontiola is really not a bad option in a situation like that. So if I'm hoping that Kontiola can be a solid performer in the olympics, yours is equally based on wishful thinking.
And i would say about Selanne that he isn't playing anybody who can pass him the puck where he wants it, he scored his goals when Silfverberg was healthy, and i read he's close to return so we see if he can get going again when Perreault and Silfverberg returns. And second line players usually play about 15-18 minutes a game. And he doesn't play PK's. And i don't think anybody has to stress them self out in those first 2 games.

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12-12-2013, 04:54 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by teddy83 View Post
And i would say about Selanne that he isn't playing anybody who can pass him the puck where he wants it, he scored his goals when Silfverberg was healthy, and i read he's close to return so we see if he can get going again when Perreault and Silfverberg returns. And second line players usually play about 15-18 minutes a game. And he doesn't play PK's. And i don't think anybody has to stress them self out in those first 2 games.
Yeah, this pretty much nails the point. Your arguments for Selänne are about as good as mine are for Kontiola, and either really has no grounds for undermining what the other thinks. To dis one while defending the other is nothing but hypocritical.

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12-12-2013, 05:34 AM
  #117
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And i would say about Selanne that he isn't playing anybody who can pass him the puck where he wants it, he scored his goals when Silfverberg was healthy, and i read he's close to return so we see if he can get going again when Perreault and Silfverberg returns. And second line players usually play about 15-18 minutes a game. And he doesn't play PK's. And i don't think anybody has to stress them self out in those first 2 games.
You still think Teemu is a sniper? In the recent years he's become much more of a playmaker. He's no longer the goal scorer everyone's used to seeing him as and even if he was producing, I think expecting him to be a huge goal scoring asset in Sochi would be too much.

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12-12-2013, 07:56 AM
  #118
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You still think Teemu is a sniper? In the recent years he's become much more of a playmaker. He's no longer the goal scorer everyone's used to seeing him as and even if he was producing, I think expecting him to be a huge goal scoring asset in Sochi would be too much.
Almost everybody in Finland's squad is a playmaker, Selanne is a closest thing we have of a sniper. I don't except him to score 10 goals or something, with center who can pass him the puck where he needs it, i can see him score 3-5 goals. And of course i think Erkka knows how to use him during PP to get his opportunities.

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12-12-2013, 08:18 AM
  #119
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This is how it should be..

Timonen-Salo
Määttä-Pitkänen
Lydman-Vatanen
Väänänen-Ristolainen

What i wanted last summer. Got crusified because Määttä had no chance because he wasnt ready blabla... (How that turned out )
I was shure that Joni&Toni would be healthy but Joni cant even walk

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12-12-2013, 02:18 PM
  #120
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Timonen - Salo
Väänänen - Vatanen
Määttä - Hietanen
Kukkonen
Nummelin

worlds fastest hockey

Before you guys want to get on powerplay or get urself into penalty kill you gotto be rock solid 5on5. games are won on special teams but its whole other issue in getting there.

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12-12-2013, 02:34 PM
  #121
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How is this a good news?
The level of Mertaranta has been plummeting faster than Selänne's production in the last couple of years. He's never been good or even average about the game analysis but for the last year it has seemed that he has no idea what is going on in the game. He misses shots that hit the post, deflections, blocks, penalties, gets names wrong etc. It's really annoying especially if you are not drunk as hell, then he's still pretty good at times.

I'd be fine with Mertaranta if there was an "expert" co-commentator with him but he apparently demands it to be a one-man-show.

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12-12-2013, 02:54 PM
  #122
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Pretty much most of the population is going to be drunk when Finland is playing live

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12-12-2013, 03:23 PM
  #123
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The level of Mertaranta has been plummeting faster than Selänne's production in the last couple of years. He's never been good or even average about the game analysis but for the last year it has seemed that he has no idea what is going on in the game. He misses shots that hit the post, deflections, blocks, penalties, gets names wrong etc. It's really annoying especially if you are not drunk as hell, then he's still pretty good at times.

I'd be fine with Mertaranta if there was an "expert" co-commentator with him but he apparently demands it to be a one-man-show.
This. Also For a "hardcore" fan is just annoying to hear when he tells some facts and stories about players instead of following the game. His stories are way over top now and they are not even funny.

His knowledge of the game and (non Finnish) players looks like is purely based on stats scouting. I don't think that he actually watches nhl-games in his free time. He's good at seeing who has the puck but that's about it.

I'm not saying Juusela is any better but it's nice to have somebody different for a change.

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12-14-2013, 08:32 AM
  #124
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http://www.iltasanomat.fi/mmkiekko/a...632283378.html

I think this kills my dream about Risto in sotsi for good

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12-14-2013, 11:12 AM
  #125
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someone can resume in english please?(about ristolainen injury)

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