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Sens recall Hoffman and send down Borowiecki and Grant

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12-02-2013, 12:56 PM
  #101
PoutineSp00nZ
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Sens are desperate to shake things up, and don't have any other options available right now.

This is what these moves say to me.

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12-02-2013, 12:59 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Allaboard View Post
Conacher is done with the sens, he played well on that second line in the past but won't get another shot. Time to trade him before he has no value left.
I come in peace, but have to disagree with you on both counts.

Conacher hasn't played well and doesn't deserve to be moved up in the lineup.

IMO this move wasn't designed to give Conacher an opportunity, it was made to find out what Hoffman can contribute.

It is obvious Murray is in full evaluation mode.

Re: Conacher, it would be pointless to trade Cory at this point in time, his value couldn't be any lower IMO.

Cory is an offensive player that wants it TOO badly. He needs to relax and just play the game that made him successful in the AHL.

IMO Cory' needs to play with Smith. He needs a center that skates well, plays physical, and is on the puck hard. This would allow Cory to play more in the center of the ice in the O-zone where he can use his quickness and shot to be productive.

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12-02-2013, 01:02 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Ghost in the Shell View Post
Never been impressed with Hoffman, but he deserves one final look. He needs to make the most of it.
One final look? He has only played 4 games in the NHL and most of it was spent on the 4th line playing 5 minutes a game......This guy has amazing speed and a great shot. Gerard Gallant coached him in juniors and compared his shot to Brett Hull's.

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12-02-2013, 01:02 PM
  #104
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At least we are trying something

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12-02-2013, 01:02 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by PoutineSp00nZ View Post
Sens are desperate to shake things up, and don't have any other options available right now.

This is what these moves say to me.
Agree they are getting desperate to save a playoff opportunity, but I don't think it says there are no other options.

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12-02-2013, 01:10 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
I come in peace, but have to disagree with you on both counts.

Conacher hasn't played well and doesn't deserve to be moved up in the lineup.

IMO this move wasn't designed to give Conacher an opportunity, it was made to find out what Hoffman can contribute.

It is obvious Murray is in full evaluation mode.

Re: Conacher, it would be pointless to trade Cory at this point in time, his value couldn't be any lower IMO.

Cory is an offensive player that wants it TOO badly. He needs to relax and just play the game that made him successful in the AHL.

IMO Cory' needs to play with Smith. He needs a center that skates well, plays physical, and is on the puck hard. This would allow Cory to play more in the center of the ice in the O-zone where he can use his quickness and shot to be productive.
Heh I enjoy my discussions with you you have solid reasons behind your views You look at things long term while most people on here think short term only. I'm sure they have a plan for Conacher I just can't seem to figure it out

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12-02-2013, 01:11 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by sens613 View Post
While we are scoring its pretty top heavy point production. This move allows us to spread that out a bit.

We also already sent hoffman through waivers which leads me to believe he's not viewed as a long term player , so murray is not worried about stunting his growth as a player. Giving him ample time and talented line mates to showcase himself is alright by me.

Also we clearly need a change and were told they ideally will come from within. I personally can't think of another player in the system who currently has potential to be difference maker .

Yes I'd prefer to see a move for a dman and we know murray tried atleast with del zotto , but if no deals are out there to be made I think this is better then totally standing pat and Hopefully hoffman comes in kicks ass and convinces management that he's made one of our wingers expendable for a trade for a dman.
I think you are reading too much into Hoffman passing though waivers prior to the start of the season.

Remember players claimed off waivers must remain on the roster, so the likelihood of young inexperienced players being claimed at that point in the season are very slim.

The fact is Murray expected Hoffman to make the jump to the NHL this year, as did I to be honest.

But Hoffman had a very poor showing over the last part of camp and didn't deserve to stay.

Now he has the opportunity to show he can be an effective NHL player, hopefully for him and the Sens he performs up to his capability.

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12-02-2013, 01:17 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
I think you are reading too much into Hoffman passing though waivers prior to the start of the season.

Remember players claimed off waivers must remain on the roster, so the likelihood of young inexperienced players being claimed at that point in the season are very slim.

The fact is Murray expected Hoffman to make the jump to the NHL this year, as did I to be honest.

But Hoffman had a very poor showing over the last part of camp and didn't deserve to stay.

Now he has the opportunity to show he can be an effective NHL player, hopefully for him and the Sens he performs up to his capability.
Maybe, my point was it not being a negative to bring him up now. And everything else you wrote is pretty much what I said.

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12-02-2013, 01:21 PM
  #109
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He really deserves the opportunity. I liked Grant's game this go around. He was very serviceable in his role and I think he has a bit more upside in terms of putting pucks in the net. Definitely a useful depth player for the organization.

Boro will be back. Better for him to play big minutes than rot in the press box.

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12-02-2013, 01:23 PM
  #110
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Where Corvo looks like he deserves to play, its hard to keep so many young dmen up and get them enough ice time. I might have considered sending Cowen down but for $$$ reasons I understand the decision made. We need to get these guys ice time, if Boro has to go to Bingo for a bit, so be it. He'll be back.

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12-02-2013, 01:30 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Charliebox View Post
I dunno. I just like the Detroit model. Make sure the prospects are over ripe.

Last year he had 28 pts in 41 games. Not bad, but not NHL top 6 forward quality.

So far, he's only played 21 games. Sure, he's looked great, but it's only a small sample. Why take him out of a PERFECT situation (winning team, great coach, playing well, wearing the 'C'), to put him on a struggling team?

Hoffman is not going to be the difference between the Sens making or missing the playoffs.

Right now, our D and goaltending are the biggest factors.

To me this seems like a move to appease a fan base who wants change. The problem is, the change we want is on D.
Its easy to have an OVER RIPE model when you invest in your team to the cap, draft well, and convince the guys in the AHL that it is for thier benefit and they buy in to it.

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12-02-2013, 01:31 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Agree they are getting desperate to save a playoff opportunity, but I don't think it says there are no other options.
What other options do they have? If there was a favourable trade they would have made it. The solution has to come from within

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12-02-2013, 01:31 PM
  #113
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Heh I enjoy my discussions with you you have solid reasons behind your views You look at things long term while most people on here think short term only. I'm sure they have a plan for Conacher I just can't seem to figure it out
I have to believe the plan for Cory is to be patient and put him in a position with the least pressure so he can relax and succeed.

While I don't think that is the fourth line (obviously MacLean disagrees) its the result that matters.

IMO the only way to look at players 25 and under is with a view to the future.

Fans who wanted to give up on Zibby at 19, Cowen at 22 or Conacher at 24 are IMO not only shortsighted but extremely foolish.

IMO Cory just needs to focus on what got him to the NHL and he will be fine.

PS I have enjoyed our discussions as well!!


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12-02-2013, 01:44 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by PoutineSp00nZ View Post
What other options do they have? If there was a favourable trade they would have made it. The solution has to come from within
Who knows what Murray has going on or what he might be prepared to do.

For a year he worked on the Ryan trade but refused to give up the first round pick until there were no other options.

IMO Murray is making decisions he fully controls first, while they may not bring the desired results they have zero chance of hurting the franchise.

The next step, trades. This decision brings more risk depending on the player(s) involved.

Murray also isn't in the driver's seat, it is his team that is struggling, so the demand for overpayment is grows.

Considering this, why would a good GM pass a no risk option before examining it fully?


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12-02-2013, 02:53 PM
  #115
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Mac finally got the lines right for change. Greening at C is a cool experiment but the good thing is he's on the 4th line.

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12-02-2013, 03:09 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Allaboard View Post
Exactly this is only the beginning and starting Hoffman against Florida drastically increases his chances for early success. He is getting older his time is now.
Come on now, I may be wrong but I am pretty sure Mike is only 20 days older than Cory.

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12-02-2013, 03:12 PM
  #117
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Mac finally got the lines right for change. Greening at C is a cool experiment but the good thing is he's on the 4th line.
Over the last 3 - 4 games Greening has played well IMO.

I like MacLean moving him to center, he can use his speed more effectively and is definitely is more physical than Grant has been.

That said I wouldn't expect him to be making great plays for his wingers.!!!

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12-02-2013, 03:12 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Come on now, I may be wrong but I am pretty sure Mike is only 20 days older than Cory.
Older for a prospect. Not as an nhler. If at 24 you look like you don't belong in the Nhl the odds are your not an nhler , especially forwards.

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12-02-2013, 03:13 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Who knows what Murray has going on or what he might be prepared to do.

For a year he worked on the Ryan trade but refused to give up the first round pick until there were no other options.

IMO Murray is making decisions he fully controls first, while they may not bring the desired results they have zero chance of hurting the franchise.

The next step, trades bring more risk depending on the player(s) involved.

Murray also isn't in the driver's seat, it is his team is struggling so the demand for overpayment is high.

Considering this, why would a good GM pass a no risk option before examining it fully?
You make some good points, I stand corrected

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12-02-2013, 03:22 PM
  #120
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Older for a prospect. Not as an nhler. If at 24 you look like you don't belong in the Nhl the odds are your not an nhler , especially forwards.
Mike looked like an NHLer last year until his injury, so I don't think Hoffman should be categorized as a prospect.

Mike has always been an offensively productive player. there is no question in my mind he has the skills, the only question is can he be a consistent player in the NHL?

This same question applies to all the young Sens.

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12-02-2013, 03:28 PM
  #121
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Here's my .01 cents.

I dont see how this move makes the sens a better team or how it will help them win games, unless Hoffman can play defense. Hoffman is a small, speedy skilled forward, he isnt known for his 2 way play and I doubt he will make a huge impact in the sens offense. This team can score goals but they are losing because of their inability to defend and while I think Hoffman deserves to get a shot, he doesnt really address the sens problem. To me this seems like the management just wants to show the fans that they are trying something, I find that ridiculous because the change doesnt really help the team. We need defenseman and the only way to get one is through trades.

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12-02-2013, 03:29 PM
  #122
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Not sure why everybody is assuming this bumps Z-bad off of Spezza's line, hasn't he been playing on the right side?

I've not seen any of Hoffman's play, so I'm completely uninformed...but at this point, Hoffman-Spezza-Z-bad is a worthy experiment, purely on the basis that Michalek only has 4 goals with Spezza, and Ottawa needs to find something that'll work.

Maybe playing with Smith would also be good for Michalek. He'd be less likely to be paired against other top lines. Having a handful of goals as a top line player versus being a secondary scoring third line player completely changes the context of what you're bringing to the table. Ignoring his massive salary, if Michalek could manger to score a prorated 12+ goals a year on the third line, it's a much bigger help than him scoring 12+ a year while taking first line minutes from somebody who might contribute more.

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12-02-2013, 03:36 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Mike looked like an NHLer last year until his injury, so I don't think Hoffman should be categorized as a prospect.

Mike has always been an offensively productive player. there is no question in my mind he has the skills, the only question is can he be a consistent player in the NHL?

This same question applies to all the young Sens.
A player not in the nhl trying to prove he's a game in game out player we are grooming in a lesser league is the definition of a prospect. At a certain point you give up on them as you can only carry 50 contracts.

So at 24 not being an nhl player makes him old as a prospect. Whether he was deserving to be up earlier is possible I guess if that's what you were trying to say.

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12-02-2013, 03:39 PM
  #124
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the Hoff deserved a callup

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12-02-2013, 03:41 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Charliebox View Post
I dunno. I just like the Detroit model. Make sure the prospects are over ripe.

Last year he had 28 pts in 41 games. Not bad, but not NHL top 6 forward quality.

So far, he's only played 21 games. Sure, he's looked great, but it's only a small sample. Why take him out of a PERFECT situation (winning team, great coach, playing well, wearing the 'C'), to put him on a struggling team?

Hoffman is not going to be the difference between the Sens making or missing the playoffs.

Right now, our D and goaltending are the biggest factors.

To me this seems like a move to appease a fan base who wants change. The problem is, the change we want is on D.
Tatars been getting games since he was 20. Nyquist has been getting games for 2 years already. We're a struggling team, this is THE best time to bring up our young pros and see how they fare in the NHL. If we give Stone, Hoffman and Pageau 20 games each, it gives us a pretty good view as to how far each one of them are from being regular NHL contributors. Overripe is ideal but you need to both test and reward players along the way.

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