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Old
12-03-2013, 12:58 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
My own opinion is that if you move Girardi, you should move Callahan. Callahan would be the real value piece on the market and could probably get you a return that would offset the loss of Girardi. Vice-versa for moving Girardi. I.e., move Cally for a defender and a forward prospect, then move Girardi for a scoring forward and a defensive prospect.
I agree. Just moving those 2 pieces restocks the system and allows for this team to grow together again.

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12-03-2013, 12:59 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
I'd be fine with all of those, in that scenario. We're out beyond the moon here, though.
I agree. This team only needs a couple of moves, really. Add a RHD (Klein, Rundblad) add a capable 3C (Ott).

Kreider - Stepan - Nash
Richie - Brassard - Zuccarello
Hagelin - Ott - Callahan
Boyle - Moore - Dorsett

McD - G
Staal - Stralman
Moore - Klein/Rundblad

That team is good enough. 2nd line is a little weak, but bottom 6 is VERY strong.

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Old
12-03-2013, 01:02 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
My own opinion is that if you move Girardi, you should move Callahan. Callahan would be the real value piece on the market and could probably get you a return that would offset the loss of Girardi. Vice-versa for moving Girardi. I.e., move Cally for a defender and a forward prospect, then move Girardi for a scoring forward and a defensive prospect.
I like that idea and you could always switch out the prospect for a pick.

Maybe something like:

Cally to ANA for Ben Lovejoy and Emerson Etem
Girardi to CHI for Brandon Pirri and a 2nd

Not sure where the value lies and you would have to accommodate salary somehow.

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Old
12-03-2013, 01:02 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
I agree. This team only needs a couple of moves, really. Add a RHD (Klein, Rundblad) add a capable 3C (Ott).

Kreider - Stepan - Nash
Richie - Brassard - Zuccarello
Hagelin - Ott - Callahan
Boyle - Moore - Dorsett

McD - G
Staal - Stralman
Moore - Klein/Rundblad

That team is good enough. 2nd line is a little weak, but bottom 6 is VERY strong.
Good enough for what?

What are you giving up for these guys you're acquiring? And that team really isn't all that different from the one now amazingly inconsistent offensively (especially the second line)

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Old
12-03-2013, 01:03 PM
  #30
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Specifically, who are the centers we can be looking at? Anyone that isn't on that list? Potential trade targets? They need a better center.

Trade Brassard, Callahan, and Girardi. Get the quality pieces back. Keep Del Zotto.
I agree. Although it would be difficult to deal Cally, those three players can certainly yield a good return on the trade market

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Old
12-03-2013, 01:04 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
What about these:

To TB:
Dan Girardi + Ryan Bourque/Andrew Yogan

To NYR:
Brett Connolly + Radko Gudas


To SJ:
Ryan Callahan

To NYR:
Matt Nieto + 1st '14


To MON:
Brian Boyle

To NYR:
Dalton Thrower + MON 2nd '14.
While I'd love all 3 deals to happen, only the SJ deal seems realistic. Could probably get either the pick or Thrower from MTL, I just don't see TB moving Gudas. Maybe Connolly and a 3rd or 4th.

All the moves would be heading in the right direction, I don't have any faith that Sather & co. would pull off these kinds of moves.

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Old
12-03-2013, 01:04 PM
  #32
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Quick Thoughts.

- I don't see the point of adding anyone on an expiring contract, with our number of UFAs. Especially considering the team this year.

- If trading for a forward, it should be for a Center not a wing.

- My #1 target at RHD would be Kevin Klein. Nashville would want a lot and short of a first I would think very hard. Would be an ideal Girardi replacement on paper.

- I see the posts about toughness/needing a big SOB. I am not sure I agree, only because I don't think that kind of a player is a priority for the team anymore.

- If Lundqvist is traded they need to get a goalie back. I see the logic for trading Lundqvist, but not if you want to play Talbot 60 games. I think this is just a perfect storm for Lundqvist in terms of distractions. With the new pads, UFA status and Olympics I don't think his head is where is should be.

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Old
12-03-2013, 01:04 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
My own opinion is that if you move Girardi, you should move Callahan. Callahan would be the real value piece on the market and could probably get you a return that would offset the loss of Girardi. Vice-versa for moving Girardi. I.e., move Cally for a defender and a forward prospect, then move Girardi for a scoring forward and a defensive prospect.
Take emotion out of the equation. The biggest question is how many years those two have left. There's a lot of miles on both of them.

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Old
12-03-2013, 01:06 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
What about these:

To TB:
Dan Girardi + Ryan Bourque/Andrew Yogan

To NYR:
Brett Connolly + Radko Gudas


To SJ:
Ryan Callahan

To NYR:
Matt Nieto + 1st '14


To MON:
Brian Boyle

To NYR:
Dalton Thrower + MON 2nd '14

Roster until the end of the season:

Kreider-Stepan-Nash
Hagelin-Richards-Zuccarello
Nieto-Brassard-Connolly
Pyatt-Moore-Dorsett
Pouliot

McDonagh-Stralman
Staal-Gudas
Del Zotto-Moore/Falk


Adds size and youth the line-up now and moving forward.

Gudas provides a big, mean defensive d-man.

Nieto would fit the Ranger speed mold to a 'T' at forward.

Connolly provides size, speed and scoring ability on the wing moving forward.

Thrower is a bit of a project who has a great head on his shoulders and is a natural leader. Undersized d-man who likes to throw the body a lot.
id do each of those deals.. switch Yogan with someone like St.Croix.. rather keep Yogan since Rangers dont have much of their own size at center/wing position.. St.Croix is too much of the same.. small offensive forward with not much size grit or checking ability..

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Old
12-03-2013, 01:06 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Good enough for what?

What are you giving up for these guys you're acquiring? And that team really isn't all that different from the one now amazingly inconsistent offensively (especially the second line)
Good enough to compete, and better than what we have now.

Giving up? Del Zotto and a prospect for Klein. 2nd round pick + middling prospect for Ott.

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Old
12-03-2013, 01:10 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Until this organization commits to a philosophy every offseason signing will be more or less what they have been all along blindly throwing darts at the dart board.
What I take this to mean is not so much a philosophy as forging an identity which the Rangers seemed to be on the way to doing in 11-12 under the previous coach. We were going to be a gritty, hard working defense first grind it out team that wouldn't very often blow out other teams but would win more than our fair share of one goal games. That team fought often and fought pretty well and that was an extension of that identity so to listen to people talk about how fighting is worthless yada yada yada makes me wonder how they've reached that conclusion.

In the aftermath of the Nash trade and the defection of Prust through free agency the Rangers couldn't hold that identity together any longer. Now no one is sure what its identity is. Win one-lose one might get us into the playoffs if we're lucky--seeing that the East is weaker than the West. The general perception is that the Rangers are soft--soft physically often can mean soft mentally. In 11-12 one could say that team was a legit contender for a championship and if it continued to get better it would continue to be a contender. This team is not a contender by any stretch. It has taken at least two steps back.

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Old
12-03-2013, 01:12 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
What about these:

To TB:
Dan Girardi + Ryan Bourque/Andrew Yogan

To NYR:
Brett Connolly + Radko Gudas

To SJ:
Ryan Callahan

To NYR:
Matt Nieto + 1st '14

To MON:
Brian Boyle

To NYR:
Dalton Thrower + MON 2nd '14
Really like the Montreal deal, but I think Tampa and San Jose would pass. The Sharks love Nieto and having a cost controlled forward like him is important for a team with a lot of big contracts. The Bolts really like Gudas, and I think they'd want to add to their defensive group, not take away from it.

Connolly would be a true "buy low" scenario. I'd put the screws to them big time if he was to be the center piece of a Girardi deal. He's fallen completely off the map since he failed to make the roster out of camp.

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Old
12-03-2013, 01:12 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Now no one is sure what its identity is. Win one-lose one might get us into the playoffs if we're lucky--seeing that the East is weaker than the West. The general perception is that the Rangers are soft--soft physically often can mean soft mentally. In 11-12 one could say that team was a legit contender for a championship and if it continued to get better it would continue to be a contender. This team is not a contender by any stretch. It has taken at least two steps back.
I think our new identity is that of a team that can pass and skate. D-men are no longer looking to block shots but move the puck up the ice and pinch when possible.

It's going to be a little bit before the identity is met, though. We have Torts roster still, for the most part.

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Old
12-03-2013, 01:13 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Callahan Auto View Post
I like that idea and you could always switch out the prospect for a pick.

Maybe something like:

Cally to ANA for Ben Lovejoy and Emerson Etem
Girardi to CHI for Brandon Pirri and a 2nd

Not sure where the value lies and you would have to accommodate salary somehow.
Right kind of idea, but I don't think the Hawks have any need for Girardi. They need Pirri to take off at the NHL level.

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12-03-2013, 01:14 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
Good enough to compete, and better than what we have now.
That team is marginally better than what it is now. And good enough to compete for what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
Giving up? Del Zotto and a prospect for Klein. 2nd round pick + middling prospect for Ott.
Why do those teams make those deals?

Buffalo will get more at the deadline.

Do the Rangers want to pay Kline for another four seasons?

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12-03-2013, 01:14 PM
  #41
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I would do nasty things to get Dustin Byfuglien on this team.

I mention it every week, and I'm not going to stop.

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Old
12-03-2013, 01:15 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Take emotion out of the equation. The biggest question is how many years those two have left. There's a lot of miles on both of them.
A lot of very hard miles for sure. With the kind of game they play, you have to expect that they'll break down sooner rather than later. Callahan in particular. Girardi has been remarkably healthy, so he could very well be the next Rob Scuderi (who, ironically, is injured right now).

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12-03-2013, 01:15 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Until this organization commits to a philosophy every offseason signing will be more or less what they have been all along blindly throwing darts at the dart board.
What I take this to mean is not so much a philosophy as forging an identity which the Rangers seemed to be on the way to doing in 11-12 under the previous coach. We were going to be a gritty, hard working defense first grind it out team that wouldn't very often blow out other teams but would win more than our fair share of one goal games. That team fought often and fought pretty well and that was an extension of that identity so to listen to people talk about how fighting is worthless yada yada yada makes me wonder how they've reached that conclusion.

In the aftermath of the Nash trade and the defection of Prust through free agency the Rangers couldn't hold that identity together any longer. Now no one is sure what its identity is. Win one-lose one might get us into the playoffs if we're lucky--seeing that the East is weaker than the West. The general perception is that the Rangers are soft--soft physically often can mean soft mentally. In 11-12 one could say that team was a legit contender for a championship and if it continued to get better it would continue to be a contender. This team is not a contender by any stretch. It has taken at least two steps back.

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Old
12-03-2013, 01:16 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Why do those teams make those deals?

Buffalo will get more at the deadline.

Do the Rangers want to pay Kline for another four seasons?
To be clear, sliverfish is talking about Kevin Klein the defenseman, not Kevin Kline the actor.

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Old
12-03-2013, 01:16 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Do the Rangers want to pay Kline for another four seasons?
Taking him to 32 on a $2.9m contract that looks smaller as the Cap goes up? Yeah, I would hope so.

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Old
12-03-2013, 01:17 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
I would do nasty things to get Dustin Byfuglien on this team.

I mention it every week, and I'm not going to stop.
Seriously? Why?

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Old
12-03-2013, 01:19 PM
  #47
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Seriously? Why?
Why would I want an elite right-handed offensive defenseman? I'm sure you can arrive there.

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12-03-2013, 01:20 PM
  #48
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Why would I want an elite right-handed offensive defenseman? I'm sure you can arrive there.
I certainly agree that we need an elite right-handed offensive defenseman but I vehemently disagree that Big Buff is the man for the job.

Edit: I wonder what it would cost to pry Ryan Murphy form Carolina.

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Old
12-03-2013, 01:21 PM
  #49
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Taking him to 32 on a $2.9m contract that looks smaller as the Cap goes up? Yeah, I would hope so.
For real. That's a fantastic deal.

Buffalo could get a 1st at the deadline for Ott, and pending where the Rangers are, is something I'd seriously consider.

Nashville does that deal because they get younger on the back end, add a prospect, and ship out a RHD - where they are loaded. Losing Klein and adding Del Zotto allows the Preds to put Jones at RHD.

Hell, they might swap KK for DZ straight up.

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Old
12-03-2013, 01:22 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
What I take this to mean is not so much a philosophy as forging an identity which the Rangers seemed to be on the way to doing in 11-12 under the previous coach. We were going to be a gritty, hard working defense first grind it out team that wouldn't very often blow out other teams but would win more than our fair share of one goal games. That team fought often and fought pretty well and that was an extension of that identity so to listen to people talk about how fighting is worthless yada yada yada makes me wonder how they've reached that conclusion.
What I mean is some sort of philosophy as to what kind of team they want to be. How they want to play. Out of that should come everything: the players you draft, the players you trade, the players you trade for, the players you sign and the coach you hire. An idea that is the foundation for building a team long-term. Something more tangible and controllable than "we want to win the Cup."

Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
In the aftermath of the Nash trade and the defection of Prust through free agency the Rangers couldn't hold that identity together any longer. Now no one is sure what its identity is. Win one-lose one might get us into the playoffs if we're lucky--seeing that the East is weaker than the West. The general perception is that the Rangers are soft--soft physically often can mean soft mentally. In 11-12 one could say that team was a legit contender for a championship and if it continued to get better it would continue to be a contender. This team is not a contender by any stretch. It has taken at least two steps back.
I think the Nash trade exposed how little depth this team really had. Less than the front office even thought. And that miscalculation made the Gaborik trade necessary. But the general lack of framework keeps this team in constant state of flux with little continuity and seemingly an overhaul every summer.

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