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Big surprise - Thornton not happy

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Old
07-27-2005, 11:01 PM
  #76
neelynugs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR469

and why should he show any loyalty to the bruins when they throw him under the bus constantly?? he is blamed for every loss and does the team defend him?? so i think he's got a right to be unhappy if things don't change.
when did they throw him under the bus? management was on record saying how impressed they were with his leadership in the playoffs of 2004 - he played with a pretty severe rib injury.

and he's blamed for every loss? seriously, where do you get this stuff from?

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07-27-2005, 11:14 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBBBruin
So between the ages of 21 and 24 he's averaged more than a point a game, including a 100 point season. It requires spin to make that seem like a bad thing.
Err...
It requires spin for you to write that.

No where did I say it was a "bad" thing. In fact, I very matter of factly called it very good. We're debating basically "max salary".

You spun. I didn't.

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07-27-2005, 11:20 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidrage
Err...
It requires spin for you to write that.

No where did I say it was a "bad" thing. In fact, I very matter of factly called it very good. We're debating basically "max salary".

You spun. I didn't.
The spin was posting point totals without posting games played, which leads to a false impression that Thornton had one fluke 100 point season and the rest of the time has second line production.

But, yeah, for me to facetiously say "that's not a bad thing" really didn't accurately represent your post.

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Old
07-27-2005, 11:24 PM
  #79
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I think if I were Thornton I would say 2-3 years at 5.5 and get me murray and ____ and ___, get me some real talent.
See where we end up and then ask for a raise when I have shown the team that I am one of the best and we have had a chance to go deep in the playoffs.

What if Thornton was offered two choices?
A)take the max 7.8 and get lyle odelein and brian savage on the team
B)take the 5to 5.5 mil 2-3 year deal and we will get Forsberg,Murray and Foote for 2-3 years for you.

What would people think of him if he chose A because he still felt he was worth the max?
If every player that thinks they should get the Max and every player that some of the fans feel should get the Max really do, The NHL is Screwed
Sakic
Forsberg
Neidermeyer
Pronger
Kovalchuk
Nash
Heatley
Naslund
Luongo
Khabibulin
Richards
Lecavalier
St.Louis
I have heard many other names mentioned as well and as I heard a reporter say on the sports channel "there is no wayne gretzky in the NHL, so noone should/will be making the max"

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07-28-2005, 12:32 AM
  #80
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For those that think the Bruins can offer Thorton 7.8 I am not so certain. The CBA says a team cannot offer more than 20% of their payroll to any one player. If the Bruins are intending to keep their payroll at $35 mil then the most they can offer is $7 mil. That is still too much imo for all the reasons already stated. If you are going to run a $30 mil payroll then the maximum one player on your team can make is $6 mil. I'm pretty sure that is how it is set up.

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07-28-2005, 12:34 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theoil
For those that think the Bruins can offer Thorton 7.8 I am not so certain. The CBA says a team cannot offer more than 20% of their payroll to any one player. If the Bruins are intending to keep their payroll at $35 mil then the most they can offer is $7 mil. That is still too much imo for all the reasons already stated. If you are going to run a $30 mil payroll then the maximum one player on your team can make is $6 mil. I'm pretty sure that is how it is set up.
How long are people going to continue to believe this? The CBA says that team's cannot pay a player more than the cap maximum. It has nothing to do with individual team payrolls.

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07-28-2005, 12:37 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
How long are people going to continue to believe this? The CBA says that team's cannot pay a player more than the cap maximum. It has nothing to do with individual team payrolls.
Hey he said he was pretty sure so he must be right.

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Old
07-28-2005, 12:43 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Finnigan
One player alone does not win the cup.
try telling that to pittsburgh

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Old
07-28-2005, 12:43 AM
  #84
theoil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongebob
Hey he said he was pretty sure so he must be right.
From the NHL's website. Maybe you read differently than I do but it seems pretty clear that it is based on a particular club's payroll.

Pretty sure.

MAXIMUM PLAYER SALARY

Is there a maximum an individual player may earn?

Yes. No player may be eligible to contract for or receive in excess of 20% of the Club's upper limit in total annual compensation (NHL salary plus signing, roster, reporting and all performance bonuses). In 2005-06, no player will be permitted to contract for total compensation in excess of $7.8 million in any year of his contract.

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Old
07-28-2005, 12:51 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theoil
From the NHL's website. Maybe you read differently than I do but it seems pretty clear that it is based on a particular club's payroll.

Pretty sure.

MAXIMUM PLAYER SALARY

Is there a maximum an individual player may earn?

Yes. No player may be eligible to contract for or receive in excess of 20% of the Club's upper limit in total annual compensation (NHL salary plus signing, roster, reporting and all performance bonuses). In 2005-06, no player will be permitted to contract for total compensation in excess of $7.8 million in any year of his contract.
The confusion could be the parantheses, which just refer to "total annual compensation," and not the whole bolded part.

A club's "upper limit in total annual compensation" is the salary cap ceiling, or else there'd be no way to specifically give a figure ($7.8m) for this season.

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07-28-2005, 12:55 AM
  #86
theoil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBBBruin
The confusion could be the parantheses, which just refer to "total annual compensation," and not the whole bolded part.

A club's "upper limit in total annual compensation" is the salary cap ceiling, or else there'd be no way to specifically give a figure ($7.8m) for this season.
Oh, I agree that it is confusing as to how it will be enforced (personally I believe the escrow account will be involved) but the word 'club' is pretty clear as opposed to 'league' which would be the $39 mil figure.

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07-28-2005, 12:56 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theoil
Oh, I agree that it is confusing as to how it will be enforced (personally I believe the escrow account will be involved) but the word 'club' is pretty clear as opposed to 'league' which would be the $39 mil figure.
But the club's upper limit is $39M. A club can't spend more than $39M, hence that is its upper limit.

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Old
07-28-2005, 12:59 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBBBruin
But the club's upper limit is $39M. A club can't spend more than $39M, hence that is its upper limit.
You could be right. Considering the number of lawyers involved in writing that sentence you'd think they could have said it more clearly one way or the other.

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Old
07-28-2005, 02:11 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwilson99
The cap effectively removes that style of pressure from the union. Remember, if teams overspend, the escrow provisions kick in and players making the minimum need to start giving money back.

The players can't make more than 54%.
Sure. But how embarassing would it be to end up at 50%! Better to go hard and give 4% back than get 4% too little.

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Old
07-28-2005, 03:55 AM
  #90
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O'Connell is right. If you want to make a Cup winning team, you need to be fiscally responsible in a Cap world.

IF, he offered 6.5 million to Thornton, can he make a Cup winning team from the remainder? - i.e. say 30 million to the 22 other players? That could be pretty tough.

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Old
07-28-2005, 04:31 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neogeo69
IF, he offered 6.5 million to Thornton, can he make a Cup winning team from the remainder? - i.e. say 30 million to the 22 other players? That could be pretty tough.
You could do it with a guy like Iginla, but Thornton, is he in that category? Not yet...

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07-28-2005, 05:42 AM
  #92
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I don't think that Iginla is on a higher level than Thornton. Both had one exceptional year and were pretty much equal in all other years.

It all depends on how well the rest of the team can play over a span of 6-8 weeks.

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Old
07-28-2005, 07:01 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBBBruin
The spin was posting point totals without posting games played, which leads to a false impression that Thornton had one fluke 100 point season and the rest of the time has second line production.
Ummm what?

His games played (with points in parenthesis):
81 (60)
72 (71)
66 (68)
77 (101)
77 (73)

I don't see how me not posting games played was doing what you said. Furthermore, I'm being nice and not showing his first two years in the league.

The guy has been consistant at just under a ppg except for one year where his stats jumped. Fluke? No, I mean he's good and earned it. But as of now that year is the exception not the norm.

And even if it were based on games played (it's not, but nypothetically), it wouldn't matter since again we were talked about him being worth team max and that would be something teams take into account as well.

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Old
07-28-2005, 09:19 AM
  #94
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If JR will become UFA next year if I am not mistaken??? Flyers can say hello to Joe
Primeau, JT, Carter, Richards (1 year NHL rookies) (Handzus on trading block)

Who wants to play for the Rangers? No one wants to coach that team

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Old
07-28-2005, 09:23 AM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBBBruin
The spin was posting point totals without posting games played, which leads to a false impression that Thornton had one fluke 100 point season and the rest of the time has second line production.
Quite frankly, the original poster had a point. Sure, he's averaged about a point per game, but if he can't stay in the lineup, why bother insisting that the's 85-90 point center when he's only ever done that once in his career?

The games Joe doesn't play in through either injury or suspension still count.

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Old
07-28-2005, 09:30 AM
  #96
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Joe Thornton would look incredible in an ugly whale jersey with a big C or A on his shoulder. If Boston is not smart enough to lock him up.....

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07-28-2005, 10:30 AM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharkman316
I forgot to add that koivu still out played him lol my bad
He also wasn't hurt nearly as bad as Joe. If you think Koivu's a better player then Thornton then you don't know s**t about hockey.

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Old
07-28-2005, 10:48 AM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komisarek8
Koivu's injuries during the playoffs were way worse then Joe from what has been reported.
Who reported this the Montreal fans and media. I don't believe that Koivu was hurt that bad at all. It's funny how right after Boston revealed how injured Joe was all of a sudden Montreal people are saying well are captain was hurt even worse. Yeah right.

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07-28-2005, 10:52 AM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaaaaB's
Who reported this the Montreal fans and media. I don't believe that Koivu was hurt that bad at all. It's funny how right after Boston revealed how injured Joe was all of a sudden Montreal people are saying well are captain was hurt even worse. Yeah right.
As far as I'm concerned if you can play, you can't be hurt that bad. That goes for both players. If you're badly hurt, sit out. Joe playing the hero didn't work for the Bruins last season, that's for sure.

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Old
07-28-2005, 11:00 AM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaaaaB's
Who reported this the Montreal fans and media. I don't believe that Koivu was hurt that bad at all. It's funny how right after Boston revealed how injured Joe was all of a sudden Montreal people are saying well are captain was hurt even worse. Yeah right.
I don't know why Koivu was even brought into the discussion, but perhaps you should do some home work before questioning Saku's injuries.

TSN Link on Koivu Injuries

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