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Setzinger and Mukachev, and Laasila

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07-27-2005, 10:20 AM
  #1
LeaderOfTheArgos
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Setzinger and Mukachev, and Laasila

First, sorry if the spelling is off (kinda tricky). Anyway, are any of these three expected to come over this year? Are they even on the radar anymore?

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07-27-2005, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeaderOfTheArgos
First, sorry if the spelling is off (kinda tricky). Anyway, are any of these three expected to come over this year? Are they even on the radar anymore?
Setzinger and Lassila were both at rookie conditioning camp earlier this month. I know they are hoping to bring Setzinger over to play at Milwaukee this year.

Don't know about the other one.

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07-27-2005, 10:26 AM
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Thanks

...wow what a quick reponse. I thought they'd signed Mukachev already...hmmm....odd. Thanks again for the info; hopefully at least Setzinger will turn out.

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07-27-2005, 10:33 AM
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Mukachev is signed but he was unable to come over the first year due to difficulties, and renged on his agreement to play for the Admirals this year. In other words, he is likely done with the Predatore organization.

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07-27-2005, 10:39 AM
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Re: Mukachev

I did not know he did that (obviously lol). Players who reneg on deals should definitely be avoided; good move by the Preds. Btw: does anyone know why the Preds sacked their scouts, especially their European one. I found that rather perplexing.

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07-27-2005, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeaderOfTheArgos
I did not know he did that (obviously lol). Players who reneg on deals should definitely be avoided; good move by the Preds. Btw: does anyone know why the Preds sacked their scouts, especially their European one. I found that rather perplexing.
More than likely it was performance based. That or the scouts didn't get along as a group. Cohesion is apparently important amongst scouting staff, and I think I read where Poile said something to this effect when he let them go. My thoughts are that it was their lack of success in drafting Europeans. Despite our apparent success in drafting and/or finding Euros (Zids, Skrastins, Erat, Timonen, Orszagh), we've actually been rather bad in our Euro drafting.

Starting in our inaugural season, we have drafted 16 European players in the top 3 rounds. For the sake of the discussion, we will dismiss Radulov. Only Denis Arkhipov has actually become an NHLer and his NHL career is likely over at the age of 26. Of that group, 4 second rounders (Andersson, Lasak, Nilsson, and Slovak) are already busts. The other 3 second rounders are in their make or break stages and have had disappointing developments (Widing, Shishkanov, Glazachev). Our 3rd rounders have been no better. Of our 8 third rounders, only Arkhipov has made a name for himself. And while hope still remains for all but Arkhipov, none of these prospects is drawing the eye of prospect watchers.

Despite our plethora of European picks, each and every draft is filled with Europeans drafted past the first day that are twice the players as any of our high picks. In 1998, you have Markov, Datsyuk, and Spacek. In 1999, you have Zetterberg, Martinek, Vrbata, Schastlivy, Vasicek, and Khavanov. In 2000, you have Visnovsky, Cechmanek, Sekeras. The Preds alone have drafted two players in the latter rounds, Skrastins and Erat, who are worlds better than any other European we've drafted save for Radulov.

This level of failure, as we move towards the new era of hockey, is unacceptable. We cannot afford to miss on that many higher round picks.

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07-27-2005, 11:50 AM
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and that's why I stick around these boards, such interesting and knowledgable posts!


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07-27-2005, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause
More than likely it was performance based. That or the scouts didn't get along as a group. Cohesion is apparently important amongst scouting staff, and I think I read where Poile said something to this effect when he let them go. My thoughts are that it was their lack of success in drafting Europeans. Despite our apparent success in drafting and/or finding Euros (Zids, Skrastins, Erat, Timonen, Orszagh), we've actually been rather bad in our Euro drafting.

Starting in our inaugural season, we have drafted 16 European players in the top 3 rounds. For the sake of the discussion, we will dismiss Radulov. Only Denis Arkhipov has actually become an NHLer and his NHL career is likely over at the age of 26. Of that group, 4 second rounders (Andersson, Lasak, Nilsson, and Slovak) are already busts. The other 3 second rounders are in their make or break stages and have had disappointing developments (Widing, Shishkanov, Glazachev). Our 3rd rounders have been no better. Of our 8 third rounders, only Arkhipov has made a name for himself. And while hope still remains for all but Arkhipov, none of these prospects is drawing the eye of prospect watchers.

Despite our plethora of European picks, each and every draft is filled with Europeans drafted past the first day that are twice the players as any of our high picks. In 1998, you have Markov, Datsyuk, and Spacek. In 1999, you have Zetterberg, Martinek, Vrbata, Schastlivy, Vasicek, and Khavanov. In 2000, you have Visnovsky, Cechmanek, Sekeras. The Preds alone have drafted two players in the latter rounds, Skrastins and Erat, who are worlds better than any other European we've drafted save for Radulov.

This level of failure, as we move towards the new era of hockey, is unacceptable. We cannot afford to miss on that many higher round picks.
100% TRUE

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07-27-2005, 12:25 PM
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a slight correction: Nilsson was a 3rd rounder and Schastlivy and Vasicek are 1998 picks.

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07-27-2005, 12:44 PM
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it's worth noting that we drafted Erat on his WHL performance more than any Euro achievements. He played for Saskatoon and Red Deer..and some say that his performance with Red Deer in the Memorial Cup was among the best in that tournament that they ever saw. He was simply unstoppable.

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07-27-2005, 01:18 PM
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According to both Hockeydb.com and the np.com site, Erat was drafted by the Predators before he ever played a game in the WHL. We drafted him in the summer of '99 and his first North American season was 1999-2000.

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07-27-2005, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause
According to both Hockeydb.com and the np.com site, Erat was drafted by the Predators before he ever played a game in the WHL. We drafted him in the summer of '99 and his first North American season was 1999-2000.
hm, i could have sworn that 98-99 was his first WHL season...i checked it pretty recently. I'll look into it.

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07-27-2005, 01:43 PM
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IIRC, Paul Fenton said it was basically a personality clash that lead to these dismissals when the Titanseean asked him about it. I'm sure it was a mixture of reasons, maybe just the need to try something different since we havent' had a lot of luck drafting these guys and getting them over. It's quite possible that the Preds felt mislead or not very well informed on the willingness of these guys to come over.

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07-27-2005, 02:48 PM
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Euro Scouting

So Shishkanov has been deemed a failure already? I honestly did not know that; a true shame. One thing seems relatively certain, is that the Weber draft (sorry cant remember the year) does appear to have some appreciable European prospects. I always thought it was a shame about Arkhipov; the few games I saw him play (albeit on TV) I thought he had some decent potential. Oh well

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07-27-2005, 03:37 PM
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Arkhiflop has a lot of potential. The problem seems to be an extreme lack of motivation/hustle/desire, whatever you want to call it. I also don't think he has very good hockey smarts.

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07-27-2005, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeaderOfTheArgos
So Shishkanov has been deemed a failure already? I honestly did not know that; a true shame. One thing seems relatively certain, is that the Weber draft (sorry cant remember the year) does appear to have some appreciable European prospects. I always thought it was a shame about Arkhipov; the few games I saw him play (albeit on TV) I thought he had some decent potential. Oh well
Shishkanov is hardly a failure, but he really failed to take a step forward this past season. He had a great rookie season in the Q and the AHL, but he followed it up with a lackluster sophomore season. Now, plenty of fine players have sophomore slumps, but regardless of it's frequency, it's never a good thing. He's not a bust, but next year is a make or break year. He just turned 22 and has been in North America for over 3 years now. It's time for him to take his game to the next level.

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07-27-2005, 04:07 PM
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Smokey, I couldn't have said it better myself. If you look back at our drafts we draft a lot of european players, and for the most part.....they have stunk it up.

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07-27-2005, 08:19 PM
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Shishkanov may be one of those rare birds who needs to play in the big time to raise his play. Hopefully he get a chance to do so. Thanks for all the info, much appreciated.

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07-27-2005, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeaderOfTheArgos
Shishkanov may be one of those rare birds who needs to play in the big time to raise his play. Hopefully he get a chance to do so. Thanks for all the info, much appreciated.
Maybe so. I read a report by McKeens.com where the scout said that he felt that both Pivko and Shishkanov failed to take their game to the next level (or maintain the prevous level) because there was no NHL. That certainly could be a factor. These guys travelled all the way from Eastern Europe to get a chance to play in the NHL. Unlike many North Americans who experienced the last strike, it has to be incredibly depressing to be in the midst of all that uncertainty. Because we knew the NHL would come back. I'm not so sure some of the Europeans did. I know several European friends of mine thought it was the end of the NHL. If either Shish or Pivko thought that, it had to crush their spirits. And with no NHL to shoot for (and possibly no NHL for a long while in their minds), I can see where the motivation is lacking. That's one of the reasons why I think Pivko is going to take a legit roster spot for the coming season. He was ready before last season and little has changed in my book. I'd like to see Shishkanov play with intensity and drive next year in the AHL. With the potential for NHL callup dangling in his face, hopefully he'll go all out.

He's got an elite level skillset. He's the most talented guy we have outside of Radulov and I think one could argue that Shish has more ability. If he can harnass it and put it all together and regain his aggressiveness (and get more aggressive), he'll be a top flight NHLer.

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07-27-2005, 09:04 PM
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I totally agree with that assessment. The fact they both of these individuals travelled thousands of miles to see their hopes get dashed must have been frustrating to say the least. I forogt about Pivko; I, too, think he has a shot at the bigs. In spite of detractors, The Preds do, in my estimation, have a promising future ahead with the likes of Suter, Upshall, Radulov, Shishkanov, Pivko and Setzinger....and maybe Laasila....in their store. Even if only 2/3s of them pan out thats still a heck of a success rate; more than a lot of teams can say

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