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Old
12-04-2013, 01:18 PM
  #1
Hatrick Marleau
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Sharks Talk (Trades, Roster Talk, Etc.)

Don't really have a distinct thread for this. What areas do the Sharks need to improve on between now and the playoffs? What potential trades would make us a better team? Who should stay, who should go when everyone is healthy and what would/should the line combos be? Should Boyle be moved off the top PP? The Sharks had a better PP percentage wise when he was out.

Basically a thread for roster discussion (potential trades, line combos, areas of improvement).

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12-04-2013, 01:44 PM
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Led Zappa
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So, you want one thread with your name on it for all Sharks talk. Interesting

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12-04-2013, 01:57 PM
  #3
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It's like, 'how much more deep could the Sharks be?' and the answer is 'None. None more deep.

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12-04-2013, 02:05 PM
  #4
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Well they could get like an ehrhoff.

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Old
12-04-2013, 02:09 PM
  #5
matt trick
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We need 2nd pairing left handed d-man.

Needs to:
  • -Be cheap- cap space is limited.
  • -skate well
  • -pass well
  • -defend well
  • -Play PK (if Hannan/Stuart-Demers is third pairing) or PP (if Hannan-Stuart is)
Unfortunately, the only guys I see that would be major upgrades and are available are:
  • Giordano- perfect fit, aside from 4m price tag, and does Calgary want to trade him.
  • Ehrhoff- would cost buffalo 10s of millions in cap recapture if bought out, that said, I would make that team as bad as possible between now and next year (McDavid). Florida is on the upswing, they have the Islander's first, Edmonton can't afford to be awful much longer, and Calgary doesn't believe in tanking. Would SJ have any interest in bringing him back. I do think they will target futures, though a guy like Wingels would probably be high on their list.
  • Kulikov- seriously rough year- would Florida want more futures, or an impact player at a different position?
  • Gardiner/Coburn- I honestly don't think they should be moving their best skating dmen.
  • Fedor Tyutin- He is their best d-man and a leader. He is also expensive, that said, he is one of the most underrated d-men in the league, and I don't think they'd want futures, nor would I anticipate them being willing to keep much salary.
  • Campbell- even if they ate half his salary, he is still a 3.5m player. Also, not a compliment to Boyle. Would mean Hannan-Boyle, Campbell-Stuart.
  • Byfuglien- RHD, big, big shot, physical, actually moves quite well, decent defensively. Expensive in dollars and assets, doesn't fill the hole.
  • Del Zotto- not particular fast, good size, offensive play, cost is limited, but I doubt the Rangers want to make a move for futures.
  • Orlov- is he a guy TM/DW will trust in the playoffs. Is he a fit with Boyle, how big an improvement over Irwin.

Other options:
  • Grossman- Really not a huge improvement over Stuart and Hannan.
  • Josh Gorges- marginal improvement in passing, improvement in skating, not really an offensive threat, not sure Montreal will trade him
  • Nikitin- Solid all-around #4 d-man, deployable in all situations. However, I read on this forum Tyutin has been a major cultural/language help.

Team situations:
Do not need a top 4 d-man: St. Louis, Chicago, Boston, Pittsburgh, Phoenix, Columbus, NYR, Vancouver, LA, Nashville, and Montreal.

Pretty much everyone else needs one, should be looking for one, or in some cases need two or three (Edmonton, NYI).

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Old
12-04-2013, 02:13 PM
  #6
magic school bus
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I'm definitely down to trade futures for Kulikov or Gardiner.

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Old
12-04-2013, 02:14 PM
  #7
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For maybe the first time ever I think the answer is pretty clear here. If you look at potential issues the Sharks have had in the past, or other teams have that sink them in the post season...

Center depth: Sharks are absurdly stacked, no team can claim a 1,2,3 center group of Thornton, Couture, Pavelski, let alone Marleau, Hertl, etc.

Forward depth: The Sharks have never iced a forward group as deep as what they have now. Barring injuries I think it's safe to say they have the best forward depth in the NHL which is a HUGE difference from last year.

Secondary Scoring: Goes along with the forward depth, but the Sharks are getting points from all over the roster, no issue here.

Goaltending: Niemi is coming off a Vezina caliber season and Stalock has had a great start to his NHL career, no real improvement can be made here.

Defense: The Sharks have consistently ranked in the upper echelon in GA and Shots allowed for a few years now. Vlasic is probably the best defensive defensemen in the game today, Braun isn't far behind.

Offense from the defense: Here is where we might see an issue. Now statistically the Sharks have 59 of their 259 points from defensemen. That's about 23% of their points from the Defense which is good. Hawks had about 25% last season for reference. But I think there is a concern that number will not hold as players like Vlasic regress offensively back to career averages.

Defensive depth: Again, there could be issues here. The Sharks lack a true offensive d-man to replace Boyle should he get injured again, or just to provide secondary scoring on other defensive pairings.

So it's pretty clear where we might run into trouble. We have zero depth in offensive defense. No one we can call up is going to provide better offense than those who are already on the roster.

So what should the Sharks do? They should move out futures and some of their defense for an offensive defensemen. They get the right player and they really could have the 'whole package'.

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Old
12-04-2013, 02:32 PM
  #8
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the question as far as acquiring a top-4 offensive defenseman is who would we give up (besides picks and prospects)?

Do Demers, Irwin even have any value to anyone else?
Do Stuart and/or Hannan have NMCs?
Would DW chip away at our forward depth (Havlat if he's even tradeable? Kennedy? Wingels? Maybe Nieto?) after trying so hard to get it this good?

?

?

???

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Old
12-04-2013, 02:54 PM
  #9
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Here's my view on the situation:

I agree with those saying we don't need to change our forwards. If a good deal for a forward came up that provided value now and in the future and improved our team now and in the future? Yeah, I'd pull the trigger. But other than that I don't have a problem with our forward corps. The way I see it, we could afford to lose two top-9 forwards to injury in the playoffs and still be able to ice a good forward corps (assuming the injuries aren't to more than one of Thornton/Burns/Couture/Marleau/Pavelski). We have Hertl/Thornton/Burns, Marleau/Couture/Wingels, Havlat/Pavelski/Kennedy, and then Torres and Nieto who are a capable of being good top-9 players in the case of injury. We have all types of forwards, good PP players, good PK players, good offensive forwards, good defensive forwards, centers, wingers, you name it; I'm happy with our forward corps.

Our defense is where my concerns lie. Am I okay with a group of Vlasic-Braun, Irwin-Boyle, Hannan-Demers going into the playoffs? Sure, but I don't think TMac would sit an experienced playoff vet with a Cup ring in the playoffs (Stuart). Would I really prefer to see the Sharks bring in a young two-way #4 defenseman like Kulikov or Gardiner? Hell yeah. Would I settle for a prime stud like Ehrhoff or Campbell? Hell yeah. Is it a pressing need? Nah.

Goaltending is fine, obviously. Niemi is Niemi, and Stalock has shown that he's a capable backup.

Basically, my only issue is that #4 spot on D. Vlasic, Braun, and Boyle are obviously 3/4ths of the top-4, but the 4th spot is tricky. Do I think Demers can be a capable #4 defenseman? Absolutely. I'd argue that he's playing like a legit top-4 guy right now. The issue is that Boyle needs a better partner than Stuart, and the coaches seem not to trust Irwin.

Here are my 'untouchables': Thornton, Marleau, Couture, Pavelski, Burns, Hertl, Vlasic, Braun, Niemi, (Stalock).

Here are my 'only will be traded in a package for a better player but probably untouchables': Wingels, Nieto, Torres.

Here are my 'I'd be okay with trading but I don't really see a point unless someone gives us a really good deal': Boyle, Demers, Kennedy.

Here are my 'I'd be okay with trading but I don't think they have any trade value so the Sharks are better off keeping them': Havlat, Irwin, Hannan, Brown, Sheppard, Desjardins

And here are my 'Jesus H Christ get these guys off my team pronto': Stuart, Burish, Pelech, McCarthy.

As far as trade chips go, anyone in the latter three categories, plus any futures minus Tarasov and our 2015 1st rounder is on the table. I'd be okay with trading Mueller+ for a #4 guy, providing he has a future with this team (Gardiner, for example). Same with Hamilton, Tennyson, Abeltshauser, etc.

I personally don't see a trade going down all year. I think that DW likes his team and isn't actively seeking to improve it. I think he will listen to offers and I think he will kick the tires on pretty much everyone, but I don't think he's actively pursuing a trade. JMO.

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Old
12-04-2013, 02:56 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharski View Post
the question as far as acquiring a top-4 offensive defenseman is who would we give up (besides picks and prospects)?

Do Demers, Irwin even have any value to anyone else?
Do Stuart and/or Hannan have NMCs?
Would DW chip away at our forward depth (Havlat if he's even tradeable? Kennedy? Wingels? Maybe Nieto?) after trying so hard to get it this good?

?

?

???
The point is to add to our defense, not subtract (Demers).

The 1st/2nd, Irwin/Tennyson, Hamilton, Mueller should be more than enough

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12-04-2013, 03:09 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post

I personally don't see a trade going down all year. I think that DW likes his team and isn't actively seeking to improve it. I think he will listen to offers and I think he will kick the tires on pretty much everyone, but I don't think he's actively pursuing a trade. JMO.
I agree with most of your points but DW has constantly said he is always trying to make the team better and never stops looking. He's become a bit of a notorious tire kicker, always sniffing around potential deals. I don't see a pressing need to make a move but if there is a situation leading up to the deadline where he can make a move that has obvious benefit to the team I don't see him hesitating to make a deal.

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Old
12-04-2013, 03:27 PM
  #12
Hatrick Marleau
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
So, you want one thread with your name on it for all Sharks talk. Interesting
Obviously...I make this forum awesome!

Quote:
Originally Posted by matt trick View Post
We need 2nd pairing left handed d-man.

Needs to:
  • -Be cheap- cap space is limited.
  • -skate well
  • -pass well
  • -defend well
  • -Play PK (if Hannan/Stuart-Demers is third pairing) or PP (if Hannan-Stuart is)
Unfortunately, the only guys I see that would be major upgrades and are available are:
  • Giordano- perfect fit, aside from 4m price tag, and does Calgary want to trade him.
  • Ehrhoff- would cost buffalo 10s of millions in cap recapture if bought out, that said, I would make that team as bad as possible between now and next year (McDavid). Florida is on the upswing, they have the Islander's first, Edmonton can't afford to be awful much longer, and Calgary doesn't believe in tanking. Would SJ have any interest in bringing him back. I do think they will target futures, though a guy like Wingels would probably be high on their list.
  • Kulikov- seriously rough year- would Florida want more futures, or an impact player at a different position?
  • Gardiner/Coburn- I honestly don't think they should be moving their best skating dmen.
  • Fedor Tyutin- He is their best d-man and a leader. He is also expensive, that said, he is one of the most underrated d-men in the league, and I don't think they'd want futures, nor would I anticipate them being willing to keep much salary.
  • Campbell- even if they ate half his salary, he is still a 3.5m player. Also, not a compliment to Boyle. Would mean Hannan-Boyle, Campbell-Stuart.
  • Byfuglien- RHD, big, big shot, physical, actually moves quite well, decent defensively. Expensive in dollars and assets, doesn't fill the hole.
  • Del Zotto- not particular fast, good size, offensive play, cost is limited, but I doubt the Rangers want to make a move for futures.
  • Orlov- is he a guy TM/DW will trust in the playoffs. Is he a fit with Boyle, how big an improvement over Irwin.

Other options:
  • Grossman- Really not a huge improvement over Stuart and Hannan.
  • Josh Gorges- marginal improvement in passing, improvement in skating, not really an offensive threat, not sure Montreal will trade him
  • Nikitin- Solid all-around #4 d-man, deployable in all situations. However, I read on this forum Tyutin has been a major cultural/language help.

Team situations:
Do not need a top 4 d-man: St. Louis, Chicago, Boston, Pittsburgh, Phoenix, Columbus, NYR, Vancouver, LA, Nashville, and Montreal.

Pretty much everyone else needs one, should be looking for one, or in some cases need two or three (Edmonton, NYI).
I like Giordano, Kulikov, Coburn, Gardiner, Nikitin, Tyutin, and Orlov.

I think Giordano, Tyutin, and possibly Kulikov for what we would be trading (futures). Giordano would my choice out them because I think he would be the easiest to acquire and is the best fit for what we need. Coburn is Philly's best Dman and they are in the playoff hunt so they wouldn't want to trade him for futures. Orlov, Gardiner and Nikitin are young good dmen so it doesn't make sense to trade them for futures. Kulikov is a possibilty because he is struggling with Florida and they are still in rebuild mode so futures would interest them. However, I don't think Kulikov, with the way he is playing, would be good for this team. He would be an offseason target IMO. Tyutin is too expensive IMO and like you said he is important for helping Nikitin. Giordano is in his prime and was playing well before getting injured. He is a solid TWD on a good contract 4mil for the next few years which is solid for a dmen of his caliber. Calgary is rebuilding so futures would interest him. Giordano would be the best option out of that list.

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Old
12-04-2013, 03:36 PM
  #13
TheJuxtaposer
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Just FYI, Tyutin has been pretty bad this year, and Nikitin needs Tyutin to be effective, so...

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12-04-2013, 03:38 PM
  #14
Gene Parmesan
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I don't see DW adding much this year. Maybe a depth dman at the deadline like Mike Weaver or someone of that ilk.

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12-04-2013, 03:39 PM
  #15
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If the coaches don't trust Irwin enough to skate him on regular shift next to Boyle then I think the only position the team needs to upgrade is the 2nd pairing LD.

I think it would be a gigantic mistake to trade any of their top 9 forwards which means the only way to acquire that d-man is by moving one of Irwin, Stuart or Hannan and since Stuart supposedly (couldn't get it confirmed by capgeek) has either a full or modified NTC (and I don't see DW trading him) and Irwin & Hannan don't hold a lot of value I have a hard time seeing how DW could go about making a trade.

There are some prospects and any of the 2014 picks that I would be fine moving in a trade for a top 4 LD who is either signed long term or still in their RFA years but the Sharks have to look ahead when it comes to the cap and a roster player will very likely have to be moved to accommodate any trade. On top of that, the LD that I would be very interested in aren't going to be had for what I believe the Sharks are willing to offer in a trade.

Of course, injuries and how individuals are playing could all change between now and the TDL so it's kinda hard to say what the Sharks might need come March 5th.

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12-04-2013, 04:09 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stalockrox View Post
If the coaches don't trust Irwin enough to skate him on regular shift next to Boyle then I think the only position the team needs to upgrade is the 2nd pairing LD.

I think it would be a gigantic mistake to trade any of their top 9 forwards which means the only way to acquire that d-man is by moving one of Irwin, Stuart or Hannan and since Stuart supposedly (couldn't get it confirmed by capgeek) has either a full or modified NTC (and I don't see DW trading him) and Irwin & Hannan don't hold a lot of value I have a hard time seeing how DW could go about making a trade.

There are some prospects and any of the 2014 picks that I would be fine moving in a trade for a top 4 LD who is either signed long term or still in their RFA years but the Sharks have to look ahead when it comes to the cap and a roster player will very likely have to be moved to accommodate any trade. On top of that, the LD that I would be very interested in aren't going to be had for what I believe the Sharks are willing to offer in a trade.

Of course, injuries and how individuals are playing could all change between now and the TDL so it's kinda hard to say what the Sharks might need come March 5th.
There are a few guys that could be moved to clear some salary (Burish, Irwin) and but more than likely one 'good' player is going to have to go, my bet is Demers, but I wouldn't be shocked if it was Nieto or Wingels. It would be a DW type move.

Even if the Sharks move only futures they should be able to afford a pretty high quality player. The Sharks have a lot of good prospects that are getting a lot of press. Tierney, O'Regan, Mueller, etc. and even late 1sts are still valuable.

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Old
12-04-2013, 04:16 PM
  #17
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Difficult to see Stuart or Hannan included in anything other than a "blockbuster." They've got substantial playoff cred (135 games and 93 games). Demers and Irwin seem (to me) to be some of the "youth" DW is trying to "refresh" the roster with.

I really like how much DW is handcuffed: he doesn't have many serious prospects to throw away on bottom-6 UFAs; his team is playing well so he can't throw away core UFAs for picks; and he can't dispose of anyone that's playoff-ready for a mediocre team's "highly-touted" future prospect.

Suits me just fine. Focus on getting the current roster playoff-ready.

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12-04-2013, 04:25 PM
  #18
Hatrick Marleau
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Originally Posted by Linkster View Post
Difficult to see Stuart or Hannan included in anything other than a "blockbuster." They've got substantial playoff cred (135 games and 93 games). Demers and Irwin seem (to me) to be some of the "youth" DW is trying to "refresh" the roster with.

I really like how much DW is handcuffed: he doesn't have many serious prospects to throw away on bottom-6 UFAs; his team is playing well so he can't throw away core UFAs for picks; and he can't dispose of anyone that's playoff-ready for a mediocre team's "highly-touted" future prospect.

Suits me just fine. Focus on getting the current roster playoff-ready.
*DW then trades Jumbo, Patty, Boyle, and Couture*

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12-04-2013, 04:32 PM
  #19
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There are a few guys that could be moved to clear some salary (Burish, Irwin) and but more than likely one 'good' player is going to have to go, my bet is Demers, but I wouldn't be shocked if it was Nieto or Wingels. It would be a DW type move.

Even if the Sharks move only futures they should be able to afford a pretty high quality player. The Sharks have a lot of good prospects that are getting a lot of press. Tierney, O'Regan, Mueller, etc. and even late 1sts are still valuable.
As of today, without Burish and including Torres (minus McCarthy, Pelech and Brown) the Sharks have somewhere around $1.4mil in cap space and that's carrying only 12 healthy forwards, and 7 D (and rolling over whatever bonuses Hertl hits to next season and I doubt they want to do that).

Since I don't see Havlat waiving his NMC, nor do I see DW asking him to, I don't think DW will, or should be trading any of the forward depth for help on D.

I also seriously doubt the org would include Mueller in a trade and I think it would take a lot to get them to include Nieto.

Irwin could be moved as part of a deal which would open up some cap space but like a few others, based on the make up of their roster and the cap situation, unless injuries hit I get the feeling that the Sharks may just stand pat (for a change) this season.

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12-04-2013, 04:36 PM
  #20
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I don't see DW adding much this year. Maybe a depth dman at the deadline like Mike Weaver or someone of that ilk.
I'd rather have no move then have this be the only move

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12-04-2013, 04:47 PM
  #21
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If we send down Pelech and McCarthy, take Torres off LTIR, and Burish remains on LTIR for the year, the sharks can have a roster costing: 64.3+1.85, or 66.15 correct?

That means, the Sharks can trade Irwin and acquire a top 4 d-man making a salary of 1.7 or less, if they want to stay with a 13 man roster.

Do I have that correct?

So in order to get Giordano at 2.1 mill (if Calgary was even willing), we'd need to either send Brown down, keep Torres on LTIR, or trade another piece from the team (replacing Sheppard with McCarthy would be enough I believe).

I don't think Stuart can be traded, plus it is sketchy. Boyle should not be available during a cup run, and among forwards making over 1m, all but Kennedy and Torres are critical to the team's success.

Of course Kennedy, Torres, or another forward on LTIR from TDL to playoffs is an option as well.

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12-04-2013, 04:51 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by stalockrox View Post
As of today, without Burish and including Torres (minus McCarthy, Pelech and Brown) the Sharks have somewhere around $1.4mil in cap space and that's carrying only 12 healthy forwards, and 7 D (and rolling over whatever bonuses Hertl hits to next season and I doubt they want to do that).

Since I don't see Havlat waiving his NMC, nor do I see DW asking him to, I don't think DW will, or should be trading any of the forward depth for help on D.

I also seriously doubt the org would include Mueller in a trade and I think it would take a lot to get them to include Nieto.

Irwin could be moved as part of a deal which would open up some cap space but like a few others, based on the make up of their roster and the cap situation, unless injuries hit I get the feeling that the Sharks may just stand pat (for a change) this season.
It's possible, but I'm pretty confident if the Sharks don't solve their defensive issue the offense from the defense is going to take a nosedive and our blueline is not going to get the job done against a team like Chicago. Maybe they role the dice and hope they don't get matched up against Chicago.

The frustrating thing is the Sharks are one player away from having a nearly perfect roster. They have to see that too. I have a tough time imagining DW not at least trying to fill that hole.

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Old
12-04-2013, 05:06 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt trick View Post
If we send down Pelech and McCarthy, take Torres off LTIR, and Burish remains on LTIR for the year, the sharks can have a roster costing: 64.3+1.85, or 66.15 correct?

That means, the Sharks can trade Irwin and acquire a top 4 d-man making a salary of 1.7 or less, if they want to stay with a 13 man roster.

Do I have that correct?

So in order to get Giordano at 2.1 mill (if Calgary was even willing), we'd need to either send Brown down, keep Torres on LTIR, or trade another piece from the team (replacing Sheppard with McCarthy would be enough I believe).

I don't think Stuart can be traded, plus it is sketchy. Boyle should not be available during a cup run, and among forwards making over 1m, all but Kennedy and Torres are critical to the team's success.

Of course Kennedy, Torres, or another forward on LTIR from TDL to playoffs is an option as well.
It works if you play the LTIR game until the playoffs (when the cap doesn't matter) assuming Torres stays out until someone else gets hurt. Or you trade Havlat/Kennedy, or Calgary retains half of Gio's salary for this season and we trade Demers.

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12-04-2013, 05:19 PM
  #24
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How's Tom Gilbert doing these days? Don't know if he can play on the left side.

What about Ron Hainsey? I always see him get bagged on, but every time i see him play, he looks good.

Just thinking of low end options that won't cost assets or detriment the future.

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12-04-2013, 05:29 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SactoShark View Post
How's Tom Gilbert doing these days? Don't know if he can play on the left side.

What about Ron Hainsey? I always see him get bagged on, but every time i see him play, he looks good.

Just thinking of low end options that won't cost assets or detriment the future.
From what I understand Gilbert doesn't do well on his off side which is too bad.

If the Sharks wanted help for just this season Hainsey is someone I'd be interest in, however, it would still be very tough to fit him under the cap and I don't know that Carolina has any interest in moving him. If they were it's likely he'd just cost picks.

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