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Old
12-04-2013, 05:31 PM
  #26
SactoShark
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Originally Posted by stalockrox View Post
From what I understand Gilbert doesn't do well on his off side which is too bad.

If the Sharks wanted help for just this season Hainsey is someone I'd be interest in, however, it would still be very tough to fit him under the cap and I don't know that Carolina has any interest in moving him. If they were it's likely he'd just cost picks.
There was talk of Carolina moving Gleason, who I thought to be a core guy for them. So I figured it might be open season with them soon.

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12-04-2013, 05:48 PM
  #27
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I agree on the need for a Top-4 LD (see my recent "trade Boyle" thread that some people aggravated).

I don't want to move Demers, and the only current D-man I see DW moving is possibly Irwin.

On forward I doubt he moves anyone off the NHL roster. McCarthy is good enough to a bottom line replacement at any point and they have confidence in him. Plus he's cheap. I'd love to move Burish, but he's on LTIR and probably not coming back this year, so there is no need. I'm still not a fan of Kennedy, but I also don't see DW moving him. And I doubt Havlat will waive his NMC during the season (if at all).

That means prospects and picks. I'm fine moving any pick from next years draft, although if DW moves the 1st for another rental I would be seriously PO'd. But if it's for someone like Orlov or Kulikov, I'm fine with it. Prospect-wise I don't see Mueller or Nieto being on the table. I DO see Hamilton maybe being a highly-likely piece, along with Petrecki, Doherty, and some of the other AHL defensemen. I would hope Abeltshauser is not on that list, as just like with Braun, I have a suspicion that I think he's going to be surprisingly good.

I do think DW will make another move, but I honestly expect it will be one I won't like. He'll probably go for the expiring contract vet, and not get a long-term asset.

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Old
12-04-2013, 07:15 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by SactoShark View Post
How's Tom Gilbert doing these days? Don't know if he can play on the left side.

What about Ron Hainsey? I always see him get bagged on, but every time i see him play, he looks good.

Just thinking of low end options that won't cost assets or detriment the future.
Ron Hainsey has been fantastic with Carolina, I would definitely be here for a trade for Ron Hainsey. I like Gilbert too, but we don't need a righty.

I also would advocate using Freddie Hamilton as our primary trade piece. Reason is that I think he doesn't have a future at center on this team, since I see Thornton as our #3C in a Saku Koivu capacity with this team when he's 40ish. Actually, Thornton and Marleau I see as what the Ducks have with Koivu and Selanne right now. They have Getzlaf as their main guy (Couture), but those two are key depth players (maybe not so much this year, but last year sure), guys who can score from the third line. Hamilton is also a defensive #3C type, and our team ideally includes three scoring lines, so I don't really see how he has a place. He's highly regarded, so I think he'd have decent value.

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Old
12-04-2013, 07:17 PM
  #29
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Plus, he's relatively redundant with someone like Tierney in the system.

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Old
12-04-2013, 07:20 PM
  #30
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Plus, he's relatively redundant with someone like Tierney in the system.
Kuraly as well.

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Old
12-04-2013, 07:36 PM
  #31
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Sharks

Question for all .

This is a great regular season team. Trouble is the playoffs.
A total different game come playoff time.
Is this team built for the playoff run.
What is the difference from this years team than last years team?????

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12-04-2013, 07:40 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by McSorley33 View Post
Question for all .

This is a great regular season team. Trouble is the playoffs.
A total different game come playoff time.
Is this team built for the playoff run.
What is the difference from this years team than last years team?????
Here we go again.

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Old
12-04-2013, 07:54 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McSorley33 View Post
Question for all .

This is a great regular season team. Trouble is the playoffs.
A total different game come playoff time.
Is this team built for the playoff run.
What is the difference from this years team than last years team?????
We have legit forward depth this year.

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Old
12-04-2013, 07:56 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by McSorley33 View Post
Question for all .

This is a great regular season team. Trouble is the playoffs.
A total different game come playoff time.
Is this team built for the playoff run.
What is the difference from this years team than last years team?????
The Sharks were #6 seed last year and most had them losing to Vancouver but they swept them and pushed L.A. to 7 games without two top 9 forwards. Same ol' Sharks right?

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Old
12-04-2013, 07:59 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McSorley33 View Post
Question for all .

This is a great regular season team. Trouble is the playoffs.
A total different game come playoff time.
Is this team built for the playoff run.
What is the difference from this years team than last years team?????
Everyone knows I'm the biggest DW doubter around, but even I have to admit that this team is built for the playoffs. Especially once Torres is back.

The thing that has killed the Sharks in recent years (IMO) has been a lack of forward depth and 5 on 5 scoring. When Torres comes back and if they bring up Nieto for the playoffs (assuming he does well) they could roll 4 "scoring" lines:

Hertl - JT - Burns
Marleau - Couture - Torres/Havlat (assuming Havlat turns it around)
Nieto - Pavelski - Wingels/Havlat
Kennedy - Sheppard - Havlat/Wingels

with Desi, Brown, and McCarthy all available as experience NHL depth.

Niemi is fine in goal, although I would want to see Stalock get more games so that if Niemi gets injured in the playoffs the team knows if Stalock can do the job.

The only real weakness is on defense. Vlasic and Braun are a fantastic shut-down line. I think Demers may turn into another playoff stud this year, especially if he keeps playing with a bit of an edge to go with improving confidence and offense. Hannan is playing well and is cheap. Stuart has his good and bad nights (and I didn't want him to begin with), but he's generally a decent bottom-pairing guy.

The only really weak link is Irwin and that 2nd-line LD. I would love to see someone brought in who could slot in there with Demers and push to the bottom pairing (except for PP) where Boyle would face weaker competition. In my dreams that would be Abeltshauser sometime this season, but that's not likely.

But really, I only see one playoff weakness for this team and they have done better in the past with a weaker defense, so I'm not really stressing on that point honestly.

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Old
12-04-2013, 08:31 PM
  #36
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Can someone provide a scouting report on Gardiner?

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Old
12-04-2013, 10:54 PM
  #37
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Can someone provide a scouting report on Gardiner?
A very good skating LHD PMD. Good offensively and defensively but struggled for playing time last year because Carlyle didn't want to play him. When he did play he was good and arguably their best dmen in the playoffs last year. Now they seem to want to trade him. Kind of fell out of favor with Carlyle and they think Reilly can replace them and they have quite a few LHD Dmen. He also has struggled to put up points this year. I doubt they would trade him for futures which is what we would probably offer.

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Old
12-04-2013, 10:57 PM
  #38
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In b4 DW "acquires top 4 defenseman at the TDL" by trading Burns to himself and moving him back to D

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Old
12-04-2013, 11:52 PM
  #39
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In b4 DW "acquires top 4 defenseman at the TDL" by trading Burns to himself and moving him back to D

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Old
12-05-2013, 01:30 AM
  #40
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Gardiner really seems like the perfect fit. He's young enough to fit DW's "refresh, not rebuild" campaign. He's talented enough to help the roster short-term. He comes from a team in the other conference. His value isn't the highest right now. And the team trading him has a lot of d-men, and needs forward help.


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Old
12-05-2013, 01:43 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
I agree on the need for a Top-4 LD (see my recent "trade Boyle" thread that some people aggravated).

I don't want to move Demers, and the only current D-man I see DW moving is possibly Irwin.

On forward I doubt he moves anyone off the NHL roster. McCarthy is good enough to a bottom line replacement at any point and they have confidence in him. Plus he's cheap. I'd love to move Burish, but he's on LTIR and probably not coming back this year, so there is no need. I'm still not a fan of Kennedy, but I also don't see DW moving him. And I doubt Havlat will waive his NMC during the season (if at all).
McCarthy...well, I wouldn't feel safe with him in the playoffs.

He's playing well right now. But the Sharks will have much better options when healthy. Even with Torres out and Nieto in the minors, McCarthy really shouldn't be playing when players like Sheppard or Desi sit. I understand playing McCarthy/Pelech/Brown in the RS, especially since McCarthy has the one-way deal. But in the playoffs, the best roster must be iced.

I would say that come playoff time, McCarthy would be below even Hamilton in players I'd play. I would bet that other NHL teams see it the same way. Considering his contract, I'd say he has negative value.

But, its the fourth line. So putting a microscope on it is unfair...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
I DO see Hamilton maybe being a highly-likely piece, along with Petrecki, Doherty, and some of the other AHL defensemen. I would hope Abeltshauser is not on that list, as just like with Braun, I have a suspicion that I think he's going to be surprisingly good.

I do think DW will make another move, but I honestly expect it will be one I won't like. He'll probably go for the expiring contract vet, and not get a long-term asset.
I know that you like Petrecki, but he has passed through waivers twice. His value is probably negligible. Doherty's value probably isn't that high...he's had a fairly awful AHL career. There are plenty of prospects with a better pedigree than his. NHL GMs don't value struggling prospects very much...especially those, even before any issues cropped up, probably only had decent upside at best.

I'd say that Hamilton's value is similar to Bonino's when the Sharks traded him. Maybe a little bit more. So, that again isn't very much.

Personally, I'd prefer hanging on to the pick and trading someone like Nieto or Tierney.

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Old
12-05-2013, 01:46 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McSorley33 View Post
Question for all .

This is a great regular season team. Trouble is the playoffs.
A total different game come playoff time.
Is this team built for the playoff run.
What is the difference from this years team than last years team?????
Speed of play - may be hampered by blueline.
Forward depth and lower line scoring.
Scoring from the blueline, it is spread out now.
5on5 scoring.

All of these are improved and are the type of things that winners in the past have done that the Sharks have not done.

Of all of the forwards with value, I think that Kennedy is the one who would be most likely of value and relatively superfluous (if Torres is healthy).

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Old
12-05-2013, 01:56 AM
  #43
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This is probably the best roster assembled since the 2009 (injuries), 2010 (Chicago), and 2006 (goaltending).

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Old
12-05-2013, 02:17 AM
  #44
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Gardiner really seems like the perfect fit. He's young enough to fit DW's "refresh, not rebuild" campaign. He's talented enough to help the roster short-term. He comes from a team in the other confidence. His value isn't the highest right now. And the team trading him has a lot of d-men, and needs forward help.
Yep, Gardiner is literally the perfect fit for this team right now. That's why I keep holding out hope he'll acquire him. Freddie Hamilton + 2014 first would be a decent start, but only if the Leafs keep losing.

I'd say Kulikov would also be the perfect fit as well, if he weren't Russian.

But Gardiner is young, mobile, cheap, a lefty, great offensively, solid defensively, and was absolutely phenomenal in the playoffs against the Bruins. He was unreal in that series, absolutely brilliant. He's my #1 target and he makes a lot of sense.

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12-05-2013, 08:58 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by OrrNumber4 View Post
McCarthy...well, I wouldn't feel safe with him in the playoffs.

He's playing well right now. But the Sharks will have much better options when healthy. Even with Torres out and Nieto in the minors, McCarthy really shouldn't be playing when players like Sheppard or Desi sit. I understand playing McCarthy/Pelech/Brown in the RS, especially since McCarthy has the one-way deal. But in the playoffs, the best roster must be iced.

I would say that come playoff time, McCarthy would be below even Hamilton in players I'd play. I would bet that other NHL teams see it the same way. Considering his contract, I'd say he has negative value.

But, its the fourth line. So putting a microscope on it is unfair...



I know that you like Petrecki, but he has passed through waivers twice. His value is probably negligible. Doherty's value probably isn't that high...he's had a fairly awful AHL career. There are plenty of prospects with a better pedigree than his. NHL GMs don't value struggling prospects very much...especially those, even before any issues cropped up, probably only had decent upside at best.

I'd say that Hamilton's value is similar to Bonino's when the Sharks traded him. Maybe a little bit more. So, that again isn't very much.

Personally, I'd prefer hanging on to the pick and trading someone like Nieto or Tierney.
Tierney is someone I would hold on to. I've been reading on this board about Mirco's upside being Vlasic 2.0, which would make alot of people very happy. I think Tierney could be Pav's 2.0. He's developing a lot of all round skills, can be trusted in all situations. I for one have high hopes for Tierney.

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Old
12-05-2013, 09:06 AM
  #46
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Tierney is someone I would hold on to. I've been reading on this board about Mirco's upside being Vlasic 2.0, which would make alot of people very happy. I think Tierney could be Pav's 2.0. He's developing a lot of all round skills, can be trusted in all situations. I for one have high hopes for Tierney.
Having watched a lot of him I admit I'm a big Tierney fan but even if I wasn't, I'd prefer the org hang onto their better prospects (Tierney, Mueller, Nieto) and move their lesser prospects plus 2014 picks if they make a move, and that includes the 1st.

The org currently hold two 2nd round picks so if they included either of them for what might even turn out to be a rental, as long as it improves this team I wouldn't really care, I could very well be alone with this opinion though.

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Old
12-05-2013, 09:33 AM
  #47
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Having watched a lot of him I admit I'm a big Tierney fan but even if I wasn't, I'd prefer the org hang onto their better prospects (Tierney, Mueller, Nieto) and move their lesser prospects plus 2014 picks if they make a move, and that includes the 1st.

The org currently hold two 2nd round picks so if they included either of them for what might even turn out to be a rental, as long as it improves this team I wouldn't really care, I could very well be alone with this opinion though.
I would trade 5 1st round picks if it means we get a player that will allow us to steamroll our way to a cup this year

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12-05-2013, 10:17 AM
  #48
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Yep, Gardiner is literally the perfect fit for this team right now. That's why I keep holding out hope he'll acquire him. Freddie Hamilton + 2014 first would be a decent start, but only if the Leafs keep losing.

I'd say Kulikov would also be the perfect fit as well, if he weren't Russian.

But Gardiner is young, mobile, cheap, a lefty, great offensively, solid defensively, and was absolutely phenomenal in the playoffs against the Bruins. He was unreal in that series, absolutely brilliant. He's my #1 target and he makes a lot of sense.
Just as a hypothetical, if the Leafs demanded someone like Wingels would you do it, straight up? I have a feeling that is what it is going to take, and Wingels seems like a perfect fit for them.

Obviously Ideally I'd love to offer then something like Irwin, Hamilton and a 2nd, but I doubt they bite on that.

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Old
12-05-2013, 10:35 AM
  #49
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Just as a hypothetical, if the Leafs demanded someone like Wingels would you do it, straight up? I have a feeling that is what it is going to take, and Wingels seems like a perfect fit for them.

Obviously Ideally I'd love to offer then something like Irwin, Hamilton and a 2nd, but I doubt they bite on that.
I would have no problem adding a 1st, but I think you are probably right on Wingels being a player they would target.

That said, they have JVR, Kessel, Lupul, Kulemin, Raymond, and Clarkson. They need an upgrade at defense or center.

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12-05-2013, 11:14 AM
  #50
Hatrick Marleau
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Just as a hypothetical, if the Leafs demanded someone like Wingels would you do it, straight up? I have a feeling that is what it is going to take, and Wingels seems like a perfect fit for them.

Obviously Ideally I'd love to offer then something like Irwin, Hamilton and a 2nd, but I doubt they bite on that.
I'd be really tempted to do Wingels straight up but I'd rather not trade him. If this were the trade deadline we would have Torres back and Nieto/Hamilton waiting to be called up. We could also use a picks to trade for a Wingels replacement maybe a guy like Kulemin. Maybe even get Seto back. I just swayed myself to do Wingels straight up for Gardiner.


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