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Old
01-31-2014, 05:21 AM
  #751
OrrNumber4
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Oh I know. I'd just seriously consider letting Nemo go if Stalock proves he can be a meh starter.
Then when it comes down to it, and that "meh" starter fails you, you stay awake at night thinking about what might have been had you shelled out for a better goaltender.

Look at Philly, for example. Or Edmonton once Roloson went down in '06.

A general rule of thumb is that to win a Stanley Cup, you need two of the following: top-tier players down the middle, a Norris-level defenseman, and Vezina-quality goaltending.

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Old
01-31-2014, 06:17 AM
  #752
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Originally Posted by OrrNumber4 View Post
Then when it comes down to it, and that "meh" starter fails you, you stay awake at night thinking about what might have been had you shelled out for a better goaltender.

Look at Philly, for example. Or Edmonton once Roloson went down in '06.

A general rule of thumb is that to win a Stanley Cup, you need two of the following: top-tier players down the middle, a Norris-level defenseman, and Vezina-quality goaltending.
Or you could be extremely lucky and be like Washington who gets a new young stud to steal the reins every year.

I don't think DW is dumb enough to trade away Alex Smith(Niemi) because Colin Kaepernick(Stalock) went on a hot streak.

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01-31-2014, 08:08 AM
  #753
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Prefer to spend 7-7.5 on Miller and send Niemi to Edmonton/Calgary/Winnipeg (cruel, I know), then give Nemo 6-6.5.

Fine with turning over to a kid as well, but not convinced on Stalock.
"if" one of the big clubs in the West pick up Miller, they will be very very tough to beat come the playoffs. As if they weren't already, Miller will make whomever just so much the stronger it will be kinda scary.

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01-31-2014, 12:00 PM
  #754
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Not in favor of paying any goalie. I'm on record with my plan - trading Niemi after this season for a Bernier-type young goalie (preferably Reimer+) and pairing him with Stalock. Then using the cap savings to upgrade our blueline.

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01-31-2014, 12:07 PM
  #755
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I think we should have a good bit of cap space already, especially if we let Boyle go.

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01-31-2014, 12:53 PM
  #756
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I'd give Nemo Varlamov's contract. He has proven to be a #1, any 1-ish guy you guys are talking about will get around $4m. You really can't do much with $2m, I'd rather have security in net than a gamble.

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01-31-2014, 12:57 PM
  #757
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I'm worried about our defense, from game to game it seems tmac is mixing up the d pairings, he doesn't seem confident at all in our pairings the way he's scratching guys, I think we desperately need another #3 or 4

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Old
01-31-2014, 12:59 PM
  #758
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What's your guys' consensus on Kulikov?

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Old
01-31-2014, 01:06 PM
  #759
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Originally Posted by JayP812 View Post
I'd give Nemo Varlamov's contract. He has proven to be a #1, any 1-ish guy you guys are talking about will get around $4m. You really can't do much with $2m, I'd rather have security in net than a gamble.
You could sign him for 4.7M and still be at the same percentage of the CAP as his last contract when signed. Plus the CAP will probably be going up at a bit of a higher clip due to the new TV contract.

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01-31-2014, 01:31 PM
  #760
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Originally Posted by StalockSuperfan View Post
I think we should have a good bit of cap space already, especially if we let Boyle go.
The sharks still have this year and next year to figure out the goaltending.

By that time boyle will be retired or on another team. I do not see boyle on this team when niemi's contract comes up.

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Old
01-31-2014, 01:32 PM
  #761
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Originally Posted by Hertl My Pickles View Post
What's your guys' consensus on Kulikov?
Kind of like Demers last season, could go either way, with a bit more upside.

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01-31-2014, 01:32 PM
  #762
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Originally Posted by JayP812 View Post
I'd give Nemo Varlamov's contract. He has proven to be a #1, any 1-ish guy you guys are talking about will get around $4m. You really can't do much with $2m, I'd rather have security in net than a gamble.
Doubt it

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You could sign him for 4.7M and still be at the same percentage of the CAP as his last contract when signed. Plus the CAP will probably be going up at a bit of a higher clip due to the new TV contract.
But he's not gonna take that. He has a Stanley Cup, Vezina nom. Easily worth $6M on the open market with the cap going up

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Old
01-31-2014, 01:48 PM
  #763
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But he's not gonna take that. He has a Stanley Cup, Vezina nom. Easily worth $6M on the open market with the cap going up
I'm just pointing out what the break even point would be. 6M is a 1.3M raise (About 2% of the CAP) for a guy who was a Vezina nom last year and a SC winner. That's not much with the projected increases coming to the CAP IMO and the Sharks still have plenty of time to decide whether or not it's the right direction to go.

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Old
01-31-2014, 01:55 PM
  #764
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
I'm just pointing out what the break even point would be. 6M is a 1.3M raise (About 2% of the CAP) for a guy who was a Vezina nom last year and a SC winner. That's not much with the projected increases coming to the CAP IMO and the Sharks still have plenty of time to decide whether or not it's the right direction to go.
I agree, he's going to get $6m. I wouldn't pay him that. He's a good value now, but he's not worth $6m. Sharks haven't done well with their goalie prospects since Strelow died though :\ Sharks should be on the look out for the next Bishop, Bernier, Scrivens, etc.

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Old
01-31-2014, 02:25 PM
  #765
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Originally Posted by Hertl My Pickles View Post
What's your guys' consensus on Kulikov?
living in FL, i get to watch him a lot. He has a lot of brain farts, but my God he is talented. I think Robinson would do wonders for Kulikov. He has all the right tools to be a top pairing D-man; just needs the right coaching.

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Old
01-31-2014, 04:06 PM
  #766
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Originally Posted by OrrNumber4 View Post
Then when it comes down to it, and that "meh" starter fails you, you stay awake at night thinking about what might have been had you shelled out for a better goaltender.

Look at Philly, for example. Or Edmonton once Roloson went down in '06.

A general rule of thumb is that to win a Stanley Cup, you need two of the following: top-tier players down the middle, a Norris-level defenseman, and Vezina-quality goaltending.
And yet, how often do star (highly-paid) goalies really mean much? How many Cups has Lundquist won? Luongo? Or Price. All are on "contenders" so it's not for lack of surrounding talent. Tim Thomas wasn't a star when he won. Neither was Niemi. Even guys like Fleury who are considered "stars" haven't been that big of a factor in their teams success in the Cup run. I think Fleury was maybe a significant factor in one of their runs on a positive side.

The point to me is that a "star" goalie is an un-needed luxury. You are much better off spending that money on greater depth (both offensive and defensive) and trying to have at least 2 "starter"-level goalies available so that if one struggles you can switch to the other, and hopefully keep both rested and sharp.

I think if Niemi wants more than $4 mil you let him go. Heck, I'd say if he wants more than $3.5 you let him go.

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Old
01-31-2014, 04:13 PM
  #767
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A Vezina winner (and the clear cut favorite during the Cup year) wasn't a star? What?
Wouldn't keep Niemi at 6 but I wouldnt even hesitate at 4...

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01-31-2014, 04:17 PM
  #768
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Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
And yet, how often do star (highly-paid) goalies really mean much? How many Cups has Lundquist won? Luongo? Or Price. All are on "contenders" so it's not for lack of surrounding talent. Tim Thomas wasn't a star when he won. Neither was Niemi. Even guys like Fleury who are considered "stars" haven't been that big of a factor in their teams success in the Cup run. I think Fleury was maybe a significant factor in one of their runs on a positive side.

The point to me is that a "star" goalie is an un-needed luxury. You are much better off spending that money on greater depth (both offensive and defensive) and trying to have at least 2 "starter"-level goalies available so that if one struggles you can switch to the other, and hopefully keep both rested and sharp.

I think if Niemi wants more than $4 mil you let him go. Heck, I'd say if he wants more than $3.5 you let him go.
I agree with this. I do think you need a hot goalie in the playoffs, not specifically an elite one.

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Old
01-31-2014, 04:21 PM
  #769
OrrNumber4
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Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
And yet, how often do star (highly-paid) goalies really mean much? How many Cups has Lundquist won? Luongo? Or Price. All are on "contenders" so it's not for lack of surrounding talent. Tim Thomas wasn't a star when he won. Neither was Niemi. Even guys like Fleury who are considered "stars" haven't been that big of a factor in their teams success in the Cup run. I think Fleury was maybe a significant factor in one of their runs on a positive side.

The point to me is that a "star" goalie is an un-needed luxury. You are much better off spending that money on greater depth (both offensive and defensive) and trying to have at least 2 "starter"-level goalies available so that if one struggles you can switch to the other, and hopefully keep both rested and sharp.

I think if Niemi wants more than $4 mil you let him go. Heck, I'd say if he wants more than $3.5 you let him go.
Niemi is one of the exceptions in recent memory (and his team had great center depth and that Norris quality defense (and then some)); plus, I wonder how much Chicago was able to get away with it was Michael-freaking Leighton on the other side. Niemi did not have a very strong finals.

Look, from what I can remember, in the last decade +, the weakest goaltenders to win the cup have been Niemi, Crawford, and Osgood...and all those teams had those other two things. If you go back and look at the list of SC finalists, I think you will see a similar, if not as strong, trend.

I think the best strategy is to have one star, playing 50-55 games, and one young goalie-with-potential playing 25-30 games, and then riding that goalie for the playoffs.

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Old
01-31-2014, 04:55 PM
  #770
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Originally Posted by OrrNumber4 View Post
Niemi is one of the exceptions in recent memory (and his team had great center depth and that Norris quality defense (and then some)); plus, I wonder how much Chicago was able to get away with it was Michael-freaking Leighton on the other side. Niemi did not have a very strong finals.

Look, from what I can remember, in the last decade +, the weakest goaltenders to win the cup have been Niemi, Crawford, and Osgood...and all those teams had those other two things. If you go back and look at the list of SC finalists, I think you will see a similar, if not as strong, trend.

I think the best strategy is to have one star, playing 50-55 games, and one young goalie-with-potential playing 25-30 games, and then riding that goalie for the playoffs.
Niemi didn't have a great playoffs. Yes he won a cup but the only series he was good was against the sharks. He was amazing. Anyone who watched that series knows even though sharks got swept it could have gone the other way. could have been a 6 game 7 games sharks win if not for Niemi

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01-31-2014, 05:07 PM
  #771
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
A Vezina winner (and the clear cut favorite during the Cup year) wasn't a star? What?
Wouldn't keep Niemi at 6 but I wouldnt even hesitate at 4...
Niemi was neither a "star" or a Vezina finalist when he won the Cup. He wasn't even the starter at season's open.

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Old
01-31-2014, 05:18 PM
  #772
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Niemi was neither a "star" or a Vezina finalist when he won the Cup. He wasn't even the starter at season's open.
I was talking about Thomas.

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01-31-2014, 05:20 PM
  #773
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Everyone keeps talking about aquiring a dman. Id much rather pick up a forward.

Vlasic, Demers, Braun and Boyle can anchor our defense fine if you ask me. Hannan has been good as well. Irwin/Stuart are a slight weakness but we have had far worse #6's.

Finishing on scoring opportunities seems to be our biggest problem. I say we get a tweener with a good shot.

Id like to see something like this:

Pavelski/Hertl-Thornton-Burns
Marleau-Couture-Hertl/Pavelski
Torres-Wingels-Tweener
Kearns-Desjardins-Kennedy/Brown/Hayes

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Old
01-31-2014, 05:24 PM
  #774
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I was talking about Thomas.
Damn straight he was. That was an amazing season for him especially coming off surgery for an injury severe enough to force him to change his style.

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01-31-2014, 05:53 PM
  #775
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What's your guys' consensus on Kulikov?
SJ doesn't have enough to trade for him.

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