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Old
12-05-2013, 10:05 AM
  #51
MrG
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
According to Melnyk if we signed Alfie for what he was asking we wouldn't have Ryan. Ryan is a better player than Alfredsson, and this team is better without him. The leadership speel means nothing. Alfredsson was not an exceptional leader.
Yes, he was.

He was a fantastic, calming influence on the young players, and was instrumental in the development of Karlsson, our best player.

He allowed Spezza to be a leader and not have the weight of the world on his shoulders, which IMO is where Spezza will always thrive.

There will always be some bitterness over how the divorce happened. But to say that Alfredsson is not and was not an exceptional leader is just wrong.

On-topic, Alfredsson's ship has sailed here. I don't think there's any way the organization would turn him away if he wanted to come back, but I just can't envision that ever happening.

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12-05-2013, 10:31 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
You mean they can get worse?
Because you know that based on what? Team results this year? OK...well I bet our struggles extend beyond a new leadership group on a learning curve. Like it or not these type of transitions take time and we've committed to Spezza et al. for the foreseeable future. They should be given a chance here.

They certainly won't grow by bringing in the Alfie crutch again.

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Winning >>> ''self-respect''

and I think you mean stubbornness, not self respect
I think we have a different definition of "winning". Groveling to your ex to take you back is rarely, if ever, considered winning when she's dumped you like a sack of rotten potatoes for the guy who can buy her a Ferrari. I meant self respect. Man up and move on.

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12-05-2013, 10:46 AM
  #53
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I doubt you'll see Alfie back in a Senators uniform again. Shame he had to go but that's just the way it happened. Think he sticks it out in Detroit for 1 more year.

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12-05-2013, 10:47 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Zap Rowsdower View Post
I think we have a different definition of "winning". Groveling to your ex to take you back is rarely, if ever, considered winning when she's dumped you like a sack of rotten potatoes for the guy who can buy her a Ferrari. I meant self respect. Man up and move on.
I think we're taking this ex analogy a little too far. Nobody seemed to take any issue with Corvo's return. It's just business; an emotionally-charged business sure, but business nonetheless. That said, I don't see Alfie coming back and I'm fine with that.

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12-05-2013, 10:58 AM
  #55
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I am not sure why we are still taking about Alfredsson. He left, and isn't going to play here again. So what if he is severely out performing our Captain who is 11 years his junior?

Honestly though; enough with the Alfredsson threads.

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12-05-2013, 11:07 AM
  #56
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It all depends how the rest of the season goes. If this continues on, the Sens can strip Spezza of the C and trade him for whatever they can get in the summer.

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Old
12-05-2013, 11:18 AM
  #57
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If the question is whether I would take Alfie back, the answer is definitely yes. If the question is whether there is a snowball's chance that he will come back, the answer is no.

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12-05-2013, 11:19 AM
  #58
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I think it's ridiculous when fans complain about the money ALfredsson was asking for when he had a verbal contract with Murray & Melnyk that would compensate his for taking the lowball contracts. How soon fans forget that Alfie played below market value for HIS WHOLE CAREER...you won't see another guy like that again...don't blame him for walking

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Old
12-05-2013, 11:22 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zap Rowsdower View Post
Because you know that based on what? Team results this year? OK...well I bet our struggles extend beyond a new leadership group on a learning curve. Like it or not these type of transitions take time and we've committed to Spezza et al. for the foreseeable future. They should be given a chance here.

They certainly won't grow by bringing in the Alfie crutch again.
based on team performance and their individual performances. Spezza, Phillips and Neil have been some of the worst performers on the team (Phillips has been better lately).

There's absolutely no harm in bringing Alfredsson back. How could it possibly hurt the team? All the guys respect him, probably. Awesome leadership, awesome pro, awesome player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zap Rowsdower View Post
I think we have a different definition of "winning". Groveling to your ex to take you back is rarely, if ever, considered winning when she's dumped you like a sack of rotten potatoes for the guy who can buy her a Ferrari. I meant self respect. Man up and move on.
Winning as in hockey games. Alfredsson is a good player and would help win games. Alfredsson is great for helping young players develop. See Karlsson, Turris, etc.

There's not a single way Ottawa loses if they get Alfredsson back into the organization.

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Old
12-05-2013, 11:24 AM
  #60
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Old
12-05-2013, 11:50 AM
  #61
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I'd welcome Alfie back with open arms, but it's never going to happen. I'm sure Detroit is treating him with the respect he deserves and that's probably part of why he's even considering another season. I'll never fault Alfie for the decision he made. Not again anyway.
I feel like he was basically pushed into leaving. The whole "Well if we pay you fairly, the team will suck. So you can either play for very cheap ($5.5m total for the two seasons), as you have your entire career, or make the team suck. You choose.." I mean really, that's basically how things went down. It's pathetic. Melnyk is a POS in my books and I can't wait for the day I never have to see his ugly mug again. /rant

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Old
12-05-2013, 02:45 PM
  #62
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People need to stop pointing to the current team's record as a way of validating Alfredsson's contributions. There is no doubt that he would make us a better team if you were to add him to this roster. However, he's not some magical cure-all for Cowen going fully stupid, Anderson regressing, and Karlsson and Spezza not being 100% from their injuries.

Alfie was also a part of some really bad teams in the last few years. His mere existence didn't make those squads playoff-caliber.

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Old
12-05-2013, 03:00 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by ChocolateLeclaire View Post
People need to stop pointing to the current team's record as a way of validating Alfredsson's contributions. There is no doubt that he would make us a better team if you were to add him to this roster. However, he's not some magical cure-all for Cowen going fully stupid, Anderson regressing, and Karlsson and Spezza not being 100% from their injuries.

Alfie was also a part of some really bad teams in the last few years. His mere existence didn't make those squads playoff-caliber.
This.

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Old
12-05-2013, 03:07 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
based on team performance and their individual performances. Spezza, Phillips and Neil have been some of the worst performers on the team (Phillips has been better lately).
You act as if their performance overall this year is historically normative and completely unrelated to any broader team issues.

In one way or another these guys have been among our most consistent performers leading up to this year in their respective roles.

But sure, they're all washed up now and should be gutted after the first couple months as the core leaders. Alfie went through the same **** from this fanbase as Spezza is now and ended up acquitting himself quite well during his tenure.

Excuse me but I'd like to give it time for now.

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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Winning as in hockey games. Alfredsson is a good player and would help win games. Alfredsson is great for helping young players develop. See Karlsson, Turris, etc.

There's not a single way Ottawa loses if they get Alfredsson back into the organization.
We have a lot of players who are good and can help us win games. They've yet to start playing as a team but the last two years weren't a mirage.

Spezza, in your eyes I'm sure, has done sweet piss all to help the young players on this team develop. May I suggest that that might not necessarily be true. According to MacLean earlier in the year Zack Smith, for one, would disagree.

I think the "man-god" himself might have disagreed with you on that last point too. He might probably still be here now if he didn't.


Last edited by Quo: 12-05-2013 at 03:16 PM.
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Old
12-05-2013, 04:00 PM
  #65
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Try this hat on then, if Ottawa had Alfie we would be a better team have a better record and better attendance = more money. With Alfie we would be winning, we would have leadership and an identity which we do not have and the team.
No, one person does not make a defensive squad play better. Alfredsson was only a leader in work ethic, not leadership. There is better leadership out there than Alfredsson, unfortunately, not on the Senators roster.

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12-05-2013, 04:03 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by MrG View Post
He was a fantastic, calming influence on the young players
He was?

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and was instrumental in the development of Karlsson, our best player.
No, that was Gonchar.

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He allowed Spezza to be a leader and not have the weight of the world on his shoulders, which IMO is where Spezza will always thrive.
What?

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Old
12-05-2013, 04:19 PM
  #67
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No, that was Gonchar.
Gonchar might have helped Karlsson with defensive related aspects, but I don't know that Karlsson becomes who he is without Alfredsson.

Quote:
Alfredsson served Karlsson "good life lessons" starting when the young defenceman lived with him in Ottawa. But the as Karlsson developed into a Norris Trophy-winner, he returned the favour in a major way.
Quote:
Back when he first moved to North America and into Alfredsson's house, there was no familiarity to lean on.

"I didn't really know him back then," Karlsson said. "All I can remember from my first few months there is that he's a very generous man, and he's very humble about everything."
Quote:
Turning It up to 11: Alfie as Mentor
By Lisa Wallace
As a fresh-faced rookie, Erik Karlsson knew little about life in the NHL, but Senators captain and fellow Swede Daniel Alfredsson was more than willing to offer friendship, advice, and even a place to live during Karlssonís first season with the team. Eleven things the captain taught the Senatorsí next Swedish superstar:
1. He always made sure I got to the rink on time and would wake me up if I was sleeping in!
2. Heíll always be honest with you ó even if itís not really what you hope or want to hear.
3. He always told me, if youíre not comfortable with something then you donít have to do it. People shouldnít expect certain things from you just because of who you are, but make sure always to be respectful.
4. He helped me see how important it is to make smart decisions to make sure you can play a long time in this league.
5. Fashion is about much more than just comfort. Alfie cares about his hair and clothes a lot more than people probably think.
6. He loves U2 to the point that his dog is named Bono, but heís willing to listen to different types of music with me, so we sort of meet in the middle on that.
7. There were no real rules when I lived with the Alfredssons, but entertaining the kids was always appreciated.
8. I did have to change diapers but thankfully never had to deal with any really bad ones.
9. I grew up with Alfieís kids, so now when I call, I sometimes choose to talk to the kids instead of him. Heís a great dad.
10. Being around him and his family helped me grow and mature and realize whatís really important in life.
11. When I met Alfie, I thought I was a long time away from becoming a husband, but seeing him and the family made my girlfriend and me realize thatís what we wanted. Now Iím 22, married, and have a dog.
- See more at: http://www.ottawamagazine.com/profil....kAJ2c1cn.dpuf
You think that without Alfie to teach Karlsson what's up, that he develops nearly as well as he did? Remember when Emery would be late for practice? Do you remember what a ****show the media made it out to be?

I obviously don't know either player, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that Alfie had a huge impact on Karlsson. I may be a bit more critical of Alfie after his departure, but I'm grateful for the lessons he imparted on our franchise defenseman.

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Old
12-05-2013, 04:53 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Zap Rowsdower View Post
He's talking about Alfie's supposed agreement to get paid extra in recompense for the $1M dollar season. Rightly or wrongly, Alfie and Barry priced themselves out of our stratosphere. Yet Melnyk was willing to bend, sacrifice getting a Ryan type player for Alfie to come back. Alfie did not bother negotiating. Alfie left.
Ding, ding, ding!!

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Originally Posted by ChocolateLeclaire View Post
People need to stop pointing to the current team's record as a way of validating Alfredsson's contributions. There is no doubt that he would make us a better team if you were to add him to this roster. However, he's not some magical cure-all for Cowen going fully stupid, Anderson regressing, and Karlsson and Spezza not being 100% from their injuries.

Alfie was also a part of some really bad teams in the last few years. His mere existence didn't make those squads playoff-caliber.
He would make Karlsson responsible for his game though. I have never seen Karlsson so disinterested and with Alfredsson gone, he looks like he can do whatever without anyone on the team holding him accountable. Alfredsson was a father figure to Karlsson and it showed on the ice last year. Just look how he talks and views him on a personal level.

When your best player is in check, everyone else falls in line. Alfredsson's leadership may have not been that much of a big impact early on his career but 2007 onwards he is the vital piece to holding this team together.

Last year, Pageau praised Alfredsson endlessly for his mentoring and easing him into the NHL. It was Alfredsson that took him under his wing and made him play his game. Also, how many times last year did we see horrible hockey until Alfredsson stepped on the ice and calmed things down in our favour. Such a valuable momentum swing that not many people can tell unless they closely observe.

Shall I mention his clutch plays in the playoffs under pressure when everyone was panicking?

I honestly believe that a huge part of MacLean winning the Jack Adams was cause of Alfredsson. MacLean himself said that he would sit back and watch Alfredsson take control of the group.

If Alfredsson retired, I can guarantee you this team plays differently, sure it's just theoretical to say something like that now but when your heart and soul, leader is on another team.... you feel abandoned which is exactly how Ottawa is playing right now. Notice how the only guys producing well are the newers players that did not rely on Alfredsson's mentorship and weren't as impacted by his departure.

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Old
12-05-2013, 05:41 PM
  #69
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I wish I could slot Alfie in at RW somewhere in the top six. And if we don't have any better players there for next year, I'm going to be wishing the same thing next season.

Ryan is better, MacArthur has been better (much to my surprise and proving me wrong on my position earlier in the season), but everyone says we need more there. And if no one steps up, I hope someone steps in. If he wears #11 - cool.

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12-05-2013, 05:48 PM
  #70
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I think people need to get over the whole deifying of Alfredsson thing. It was old and tired years ago and even worse now that he's not part of the team.

OP title should be changed imo to just say Alfie/Alfredsson might stick around...

On topic though, I wouldn't mind seeing him back if we can't find another top 6 winger but I don't think it happens.

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Old
12-05-2013, 06:01 PM
  #71
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I love Alfie but it is time to move people! I hope Alfie does well in his career and perhaps a job with Ottawa is in the works after he hangs up the blades!

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12-05-2013, 06:04 PM
  #72
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God? More like Judas.

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Old
12-05-2013, 06:16 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Zap Rowsdower View Post
He's talking about Alfie's supposed agreement to get paid extra in recompense for the $1M dollar season. Rightly or wrongly, Alfie and Barry priced themselves out of our stratosphere. Yet Melnyk was willing to bend, sacrifice getting a Ryan type player for Alfie to come back. Alfie did not bother negotiating. Alfie left.
How you arrived at that conclusion from the Melnyk interview is quite amazing.

IMO the Sens budgeted $3.5M for Alfie, exactly what they orginally offered him. When he didn't jump to sign at that number Melnyk then told Murray he had a blank cheque to sign Alfie, but there would be no Ryan.

When Alfie signed in Detroit they signed MacArthur using the $3.5M money.

The simple fact is Melnyk wasn't going to pay Alfie his market value AND trade for Ryan, it was always one or the other.

Alfie asking for $6M to get $5M isn't pricing himself out of the stratosphere, it is his market value.

The more I hear from Melynk the less I am looking forward to 2015 when the Senators have to re-sign Spezza, Ryan, Zibanejad, Anderson, Neil, Condra,and Methot.

Unless his local revenues go through the roof, there is likely to be a number of players on the bus Alfie took out of town.

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Old
12-05-2013, 06:20 PM
  #74
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I wish I could slot Alfie in at RW somewhere in the top six. And if we don't have any better players there for next year, I'm going to be wishing the same thing next season.

Ryan is better, MacArthur has been better (much to my surprise and proving me wrong on my position earlier in the season), but everyone says we need more there. And if no one steps up, I hope someone steps in. If he wears #11 - cool.
Mac was been playing the left side with Turris and Ryan, so there is a spot in the top six on the RW.

However I seriously doubt Alfie comes back to Ottawa to play next season unless it is for family reasons.

He has mentioned his kids really miss Ottawa and if Detroit doesn't make a serious playoff run then I think anything is possible.

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Old
12-05-2013, 07:10 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
How you arrived at that conclusion from the Melnyk interview is quite amazing.

IMO the Sens budgeted $3.5M for Alfie, exactly what they orginally offered him. When he didn't jump to sign at that number Melnyk then told Murray he had a blank cheque to sign Alfie, but there would be no Ryan.

When Alfie signed in Detroit they signed MacArthur using the $3.5M money.

The simple fact is Melnyk wasn't going to pay Alfie his market value AND trade for Ryan, it was always one or the other.

Alfie asking for $6M to get $5M isn't pricing himself out of the stratosphere, it is his market value.
What's amazing is that you think I'm saying anything substantially different.

I never said that he wouldn't be worth the money or that he was wrong to ask for what he asked for. I was ambiguous there for a reason. There's no way to know what was said during negotiations and how.

In any case, once the counteroffer was made it was still up to Alfie to acknowledge the renewed offer. That he didn't. Not even a call back. He has his reasons I'm sure. That's fine, he's earned the benefit of some doubt during his time here. The right to do whatever he feels best for his family and himself. But the offer was there for the taking and he made the decision to step away.

No, Ryan would not have happened; we've both acknowledged that much.

So what are you arguing here exactly?

Everyone knows that we're on a budget, that's nothing new. We'll see if it continues to be an issue moving forward.

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