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MLB Discussion Thread Part III: Jeter announces retirement after 2014

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12-09-2013, 02:54 PM
  #226
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so... This is how great the mgmt is in Seattle...?? And then you read this*amazing passage from Evan Grant in theDallas Morning News:By mid-day Friday, Seattle had heard that some team bid nine years and $225 million for Robinson Cano, so the Mariners upped their bid to $240 million and 10 years before apparently realizing the initial bid had come from themselves, too.

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12-09-2013, 02:55 PM
  #227
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Is it though? While i don't think Robbie is the guy to put that kind of money into, they've been spurned the last couple FA years by big hitters. They wanted to make a splash and knew they'd have to pay to do so. they just signed a new 2 billion dollar TV deal.

I don't know that it's the greatest move for the long run, but it certainly put them on the map and in the eyes of baseball fans, many of whom nearly forgot they exist.

It's never a bad thing to see teams reinvest in top notch players. It's the teams like the Astros and for years the Pirates that cut salary so low just to make a buck that I have a problem with.

The Astros were on par with minor league teams last season. They had a payroll of 21 million. Yet they were rewarded with the highest profit of any major league team.


Seeing teams that make no effort to reinvest in their on field product is disgusting and quite frankly should have their teams taken from them. 21 million! The NHL Salary floor is 44 million! Think about that for a second.
I'm not questioning Seattle's decision to spend their money. I'm questioning how they decided to spend it. That's great, they got a $2 billion tv deal signed for, but bringing in a player who clearly does not want to be there for the organizational incentive is an issue. Cano is there for the dollar bills, not the city of Seattle or the Mariners. Yes, many players are lured to cities through money, but there are players that make choices around the city and the organization. Though it was only a $3 million different, Beltran took less to play for the Yankees over the team he started with in KC. Seattle is going to make Cano the face of their franchise even though it will be disgruntled face. They chose a player who had been a career yankee when they could've looked at some of the other names out there such as a Nelson Cruz and Omar Infante to build the team up more. But even with those guys I still don't see the answer for that organization.

For Cano it was a mistake for him. He took a 10 year $240 million contract from seattle. He could've taken a 7 year/$185 million deal from the yankees. Yes a lot less. But if you look at Beltran, he just signed off on $15 million for the next 3 years. If in 7 years Cano is still producing let's say he gets a similar deal, or possibly more with contracts continually rising. $45 million more for those 3 additional years. $230 million vs $240 million. He chose Seattle over $10 million dollars. Yes I know that money is guaranteed. Cano could've continued to produce in NY, won more world series and earned that 2nd contract, but he chose the money. He let Jay-Z make his mark, it was all about the money. Cano lost his chances at staying in NY once he signed on with Jay-Z. He wanted the publicity too otherwise why not just stay with Boras? And that is why I am ok with him being gone. Cano's focus is on the outside ******** more than the game itself and the on field play.


Last edited by RGY: 12-09-2013 at 03:02 PM.
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12-09-2013, 03:01 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
so... This is how great the mgmt is in Seattle...?? And then you read this*amazing passage from Evan Grant in theDallas Morning News:By mid-day Friday, Seattle had heard that some team bid nine years and $225 million for Robinson Cano, so the Mariners upped their bid to $240 million and 10 years before apparently realizing the initial bid had come from themselves, too.
Again, they are a joke. They got fleeced. So knowing that, it should've only been around $40 million difference. And again going by what I was stating in my last post, if Cano were to keep producing 7 years from now he could've signed a similar deal to Beltran. 3 years, $15 million/year. $45 million. He could've signed for more than the contract Seattle offered at 10 year, $225 million.

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12-09-2013, 03:29 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
I'm not questioning Seattle's decision to spend their money. I'm questioning how they decided to spend it. That's great, they got a $2 billion tv deal signed for, but bringing in a player who clearly does not want to be there for the organizational incentive is an issue. Cano is there for the dollar bills, not the city of Seattle or the Mariners. Yes, many players are lured to cities through money, but there are players that make choices around the city and the organization. Though it was only a $3 million different, Beltran took less to play for the Yankees over the team he started with in KC. Seattle is going to make Cano the face of their franchise even though it will be disgruntled face. They chose a player who had been a career yankee when they could've looked at some of the other names out there such as a Nelson Cruz and Omar Infante to build the team up more. But even with those guys I still don't see the answer for that organization.

For Cano it was a mistake for him. He took a 10 year $240 million contract from seattle. He could've taken a 7 year/$185 million deal from the yankees. Yes a lot less. But if you look at Beltran, he just signed off on $15 million for the next 3 years. If in 7 years Cano is still producing let's say he gets a similar deal, or possibly more with contracts continually rising. $45 million more for those 3 additional years. $230 million vs $240 million. He chose Seattle over $10 million dollars. Yes I know that money is guaranteed. Cano could've continued to produce in NY, won more world series and earned that 2nd contract, but he chose the money. He let Jay-Z make his mark, it was all about the money. Cano lost his chances at staying in NY once he signed on with Jay-Z. He wanted the publicity too otherwise why not just stay with Boras? And that is why I am ok with him being gone. Cano's focus is on the outside ******** more than the game itself and the on field play.
I'm not going to get into a pissing match, but anyone in their right mind would take 240 guarenteed over 185. I'm a yankees fan but you are just not looking at this objectively, at all. Baseball is a business, along with every other sport. Money talks. And fact is, we're not talking about 1 million, 2 million dollars, We're takling about 65 MILLION. Your "assumption" about a Beltran like contract at the end is just that, an "assumption" Cano, like you and I, has absolutely no clue what is going to happen at the end of his career. He could slump off and be worth 1 million dollars.

Beltran is an anomoly, even for great, HOF level players. He is still hitting 30+ home runs in his late 30's. No player should bet on that being the case, especially when you have a fat 10 year, 240 million staring you in the face.

Again, if this was you, everyone and their moms would be telling you to sign with Seattle. Everyone made the right move in my opinion here. Yankees let him go, Cano took a massive payday that was not in the realm of anyone else's offer and Seattle gets a new face of their franchise.

EDIT: And just FYI, this is why people hate Yankees fans. For some reason, so many of them have this stigma that a player should and can't ever leave. We're so used to being the ones to poach players that its nearly impossible to comprehend it the other way around. I applaud Cano for getting that kind of money. I didn't think it was going to happen. 65 million dollars is something you jump at.

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12-09-2013, 03:55 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Breakawayy View Post
I'm not going to get into a pissing match, but anyone in their right mind would take 240 guarenteed over 185. I'm a yankees fan but you are just not looking at this objectively, at all. Baseball is a business, along with every other sport. Money talks. And fact is, we're not talking about 1 million, 2 million dollars, We're takling about 65 MILLION. Your "assumption" about a Beltran like contract at the end is just that, an "assumption" Cano, like you and I, has absolutely no clue what is going to happen at the end of his career. He could slump off and be worth 1 million dollars.

Beltran is an anomoly, even for great, HOF level players. He is still hitting 30+ home runs in his late 30's. No player should bet on that being the case, especially when you have a fat 10 year, 240 million staring you in the face.

Again, if this was you, everyone and their moms would be telling you to sign with Seattle. Everyone made the right move in my opinion here. Yankees let him go, Cano took a massive payday that was not in the realm of anyone else's offer and Seattle gets a new face of their franchise.

EDIT: And just FYI, this is why people hate Yankees fans. For some reason, so many of them have this stigma that a player should and can't ever leave. We're so used to being the ones to poach players that its nearly impossible to comprehend it the other way around. I applaud Cano for getting that kind of money. I didn't think it was going to happen. 65 million dollars is something you jump at.
Lefty bat in Yankee Stadium...I think its safe to assume he would've continued to hit 25+ HR with the Yankees for years to come. He took the guaranteed money, I get it. But he didn't have to. He could've taken the money from the yankees. The Yankees said no more than $175. However, you are naive if you think 185 or 195 would've stopped them. So stop with this $65 million difference BS. The difference is guaranteed money. Again, I get it. Cano took the money and publicity from Jay-Z to play in a uncompetitive market in seattle. That is the bottom line. That's what he showed to baseball, not just the yankees.

Beltran's contract is not an anomaly. His HR total might be, but contract no.

I would've fought for the $200 million and stayed with a competitive team whether it be the yankees, the rangers, the dodgers, or whomever needed a 2B. And yes I know the dodgers were not interested, it is the point I'm making. How much money is enough? $40 million extra is necessary? What about happiness? What about being content with your life? I guess we will find out in the years to come. I hope he enjoys losing in Seattle and out of the spotlight of NY, which we all know he loved.

And FYI, I don't give two ***** if people hate yankees fans for one...and two, I'm not upset he left. I will argue on a discussion board the extent in which i disagree with the decision he made. $65 million is something you jump at? No sir, he jumped at 240 million at as opposed to 175-200 million. Don't act as if the yankees offered him pennies.

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12-09-2013, 04:23 PM
  #231
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Lefty bat in Yankee Stadium...I think its safe to assume he would've continued to hit 25+ HR with the Yankees for years to come. He took the guaranteed money, I get it. But he didn't have to. He could've taken the money from the yankees. The Yankees said no more than $175. However, you are naive if you think 185 or 195 would've stopped them. So stop with this $65 million difference BS. The difference is guaranteed money. Again, I get it. Cano took the money and publicity from Jay-Z to play in a uncompetitive market in seattle. That is the bottom line. That's what he showed to baseball, not just the yankees.

Beltran's contract is not an anomaly. His HR total might be, but contract no.

I would've fought for the $200 million and stayed with a competitive team whether it be the yankees, the rangers, the dodgers, or whomever needed a 2B. And yes I know the dodgers were not interested, it is the point I'm making. How much money is enough? $40 million extra is necessary? What about happiness? What about being content with your life? I guess we will find out in the years to come. I hope he enjoys losing in Seattle and out of the spotlight of NY, which we all know he loved.

And FYI, I don't give two ***** if people hate yankees fans for one...and two, I'm not upset he left. I will argue on a discussion board the extent in which i disagree with the decision he made. $65 million is something you jump at? No sir, he jumped at 240 million at as opposed to 175-200 million. Don't act as if the yankees offered him pennies.
You are not being objective at all. And unfortunately, it's impossible to discuss anything with people who won't be.

He is not guarenteed to be hitting 25+ home runs late into his career. Hell, he barely does that now and he's in his prime.

65 million more is somethign you jump out. YOu can say he got an offer from the yankees that was hefty and you're right, in the minds of you and i, it is an obscene amount of money. Even if the Yankees offered him 200 (which they didn't, but assumign they would) he's still getting 32.5% more. That is a FORTUNE.

Almost anyone on the planet would leave their current job for a 30% pay increase. And if we're talking the actualy offer (175) then that's nearly a 40% pay increase. You may be serious about taking that money to play for a team you "want" to (i have my doubts) but nearly every other human on earth wouldn't. You can't fault Cano for that.

Remember, playing for the Yanks wasn't some boyhood dream for Cano. It's not like he grew up in New York a diehard yankees fan. He may have known who the yankees were but it's completely different from my and your viewpoint.

I would too, take less money to play in NY (not 65 million less), but i grew up going to games, indulged in the history, with players posters plastered along my wall. Guys i idolized were yankees. My dad did too. I was raised baseball. I lived eat and breathed it in my adolescence. Still, i would leave in a heartbeat for that life changing sum.

It may be hard to understand, but making 240 million, is a different lifestyle completely then 175 million.

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12-09-2013, 04:49 PM
  #232
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You are not being objective at all. And unfortunately, it's impossible to discuss anything with people who won't be.

He is not guarenteed to be hitting 25+ home runs late into his career. Hell, he barely does that now and he's in his prime.

65 million more is somethign you jump out. YOu can say he got an offer from the yankees that was hefty and you're right, in the minds of you and i, it is an obscene amount of money. Even if the Yankees offered him 200 (which they didn't, but assumign they would) he's still getting 32.5% more. That is a FORTUNE.

Almost anyone on the planet would leave their current job for a 30% pay increase. And if we're talking the actualy offer (175) then that's nearly a 40% pay increase. You may be serious about taking that money to play for a team you "want" to (i have my doubts) but nearly every other human on earth wouldn't. You can't fault Cano for that.

Remember, playing for the Yanks wasn't some boyhood dream for Cano. It's not like he grew up in New York a diehard yankees fan. He may have known who the yankees were but it's completely different from my and your viewpoint.

I would too, take less money to play in NY (not 65 million less), but i grew up going to games, indulged in the history, with players posters plastered along my wall. Guys i idolized were yankees. My dad did too. I was raised baseball. I lived eat and breathed it in my adolescence. Still, i would leave in a heartbeat for that life changing sum.

It may be hard to understand, but making 240 million, is a different lifestyle completely then 175 million.
Cano has averaged 28 homeruns and 102 RBI's over the last 5 seasons. He has played in at least 159 games over the last 7 seasons. I am going to make the assumption, that in yankees stadium he could continue to produce at that rate.

I have understood from the beginning of the discussion that it was a lot of money on the table. I understand how you are looking at it with the pay increases. Cano could've made that money back with production and in endorsements in NY over time. His teammates believed he would be back and that he definitely wanted to be a yankee. Mariano was on the radio a few days ago before cano signed. He said Cano wanted to be a yankee. In the end, he took the money. I don't agree with it and its not because I grew up a yankees fan. I still think it wasn't the best decision on his part.

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12-10-2013, 06:37 AM
  #233
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The Yankees are watching their spending now

Joel Sherman mentioned this on MLB Network last night and also wrote about it

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What does that mean now? Well, for example, the Yankees like the very available Cubs starter Jeff Samardzija. Chicago, in particular, is looking for pitching prospects. But when speaking of the entire Yankees farm, one member of the Cubs organization said, “The Yankees have no upper-level talent.”

This bodes poorly for the Yanks. There is fragility with Ellsbury, Beltran and Soriano based on past history and/or age. They would like to have some high-end youngsters better than Zoilo Almonte percolating below. Mainly, though, the Yankees are pushing up on Hal Steinbrenner’s offseason budget.

Thus, they need low-cost options for holes at second, the rotation, late-inning relief and further left-side-of-the-infield insurance. And the trade market is a place to find that. Therefore, the need to have chips. Gardner has allure in the market — the Giants, for example, are intrigued, though feel the chances of a deal are not great. Gardner’s value is hurt because he is just a year from free agency plus some influential Yankees decision-makers are resistant to dealing him.
http://nypost.com/2013/12/09/yankees...-trade-market/

The Yankees don't have much lower-level talent either.

They don't have prospects to trade to fill their holes. They can't spend anymore big money.

The Cubs have added so many good young position players in their minor league system under the direction of Boy Wonder and Jed Hoyer.

Huge issues at 2B,SS and 3B. Tex is returning from wrist/hand surgery. How many games will Jeter play in 2014?

Robertson will be their closer. He wasn't very good in 2012. Soriano replaced him as the closer. Who else is in the bullpen? The Yankees inquired about Joe Nathan and he got $10M per. Robertson is projected to receive a $5.5M arbitration award/settlement. Add $4M for Gardner. $2.8M for Nova.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/1...k-yankees.html

The Yankees will need AROD's suspension to be upheld if they want to be under $189M and fill out the roster. Chances are AROD's suspension will be reduced from 211.

No plan.

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12-10-2013, 07:51 AM
  #234
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I hope Arod plays, that will be a pretty good lineup

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12-10-2013, 07:51 AM
  #235
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Cano has averaged 28 homeruns and 102 RBI's over the last 5 seasons. He has played in at least 159 games over the last 7 seasons. I am going to make the assumption, that in yankees stadium he could continue to produce at that rate.

I have understood from the beginning of the discussion that it was a lot of money on the table. I understand how you are looking at it with the pay increases. Cano could've made that money back with production and in endorsements in NY over time. His teammates believed he would be back and that he definitely wanted to be a yankee. Mariano was on the radio a few days ago before cano signed. He said Cano wanted to be a yankee. In the end, he took the money. I don't agree with it and its not because I grew up a yankees fan. I still think it wasn't the best decision on his part.
Quote:
Cano, who agreed to a deal last week with the Mariners for $240 million over 10 years, besting the Yankees’ seven-year, $175 million offer, will actually earn roughly $107 million more on his new contract instead of staying with the only team he has ever known.
Due to taxes, he will earn over 100 million more then the yankees offer.

How is that not the best decision? Cano can want to be a Yankee as much as he wants. 100 million dollars more? It shouldn't have even been a thought. Unless we're talking Bill Gates type money, having 100 million extra is a massive, life changing difference.

And endorsments? Are you seriously using that? Baseball players make the least of any professional sport when it comes to endorsements. This has been going on for a while too, so I don't really get how you're of that mindset, still.

Quote:
In fact, Derek Jerek is the only marketing star in the United States among current major league players, and he’s nearing the end of his career. Jeter hauls in $9 million a year in endorsements for Nike, Gatorade, Ford, Movado and Avon.

After Jeter, nobody comes close. Last year, Mauer made $4 million from Head & Shoulders, Nike, Gatorade and Rawlings. Alex Rodriguez added $2 million to his coffers with work for Nike, Rawlings, Topps and the coconut water company Vita Coco — though continuing those endorsements seems unlikely with the current news. Ryan Braun also made $2 million doing commercials for AirTran Airways and Nike but he may have been hurt by the leaked report that he tested positive for PEDs before an arbitrator ruled the test invalid.

After that, it’s a steep drop-off. Justin Verlander brought home about $800,000 last year from 2K Sports, Chevrolet, Reebok, Fathead and Fastball Flakes. Sabathia was right behind at $750,00 for lending his face to Pepsi, Electronic Arts and Nike, in addition to his work with Subway.
Are you going to sit here and tell me that, regardless of NY, Cano is anywhere near Jeter, or even the marketability of the other Americans on that list. Cano's english is not very good, he does not have the charisma other players have and he's not even mentioned in this article while he's one of the top players in the MLB...on the YANKEES!

But, for ***** and giggles, even if he WAS to haul in 9 million dollars a year (which is laughable to consider) it STILL wouldn't make up the money that he's missing out on in New York.

Yankees fans have this stigma that great yankees players have these obscene endorsement deals, fact is, they don't. Derek Jeter is one of a kind and his deals are a pity compared to major athletes like Lebron, Tiger, Messi, etc. Even A-Rod was a million times more marketable then Cano prior to this Biogenesis scandal.

107 million dollars. You're right, Cano may have wanted to stay in NY, but he would haev been an absolute MORON to pass up that kind of money.

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12-10-2013, 09:00 AM
  #236
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8:18am:*Jon Heyman of CBS Sports also hears that both Philadelphia aces are in play, but the Phillies won't eat any of the remaining money on either contract (Twitter link).

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12-10-2013, 09:50 AM
  #237
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LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. -- If the Yankees are going to make one more big buzz move, it will likely be for Masahiro Tanaka. That is, if Tanaka is posted.*There are MLB officials who think Tanaka's team, the Rakuten Golden Eagles, will post him even if they are dissatisfied with the $20 million maximum posting fee, while there are others who think they won't and will instead keep him for one or two more years.*Well, everything could become a little clearer as Rakuten's president Yozo Tachibana is going to arrive here at the Swan & Dolphin Hotel,*according to Yahoo Sports.*If Tanaka is posted, the Yankees will be big players for him and, with the $189 million goal looking less and less likely, they may just blow everyone else away.*

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12-10-2013, 09:52 AM
  #238
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Due to taxes, he will earn over 100 million more then the yankees offer.

How is that not the best decision? Cano can want to be a Yankee as much as he wants. 100 million dollars more? It shouldn't have even been a thought. Unless we're talking Bill Gates type money, having 100 million extra is a massive, life changing difference.

And endorsments? Are you seriously using that? Baseball players make the least of any professional sport when it comes to endorsements. This has been going on for a while too, so I don't really get how you're of that mindset, still.



Are you going to sit here and tell me that, regardless of NY, Cano is anywhere near Jeter, or even the marketability of the other Americans on that list. Cano's english is not very good, he does not have the charisma other players have and he's not even mentioned in this article while he's one of the top players in the MLB...on the YANKEES!

But, for ***** and giggles, even if he WAS to haul in 9 million dollars a year (which is laughable to consider) it STILL wouldn't make up the money that he's missing out on in New York.

Yankees fans have this stigma that great yankees players have these obscene endorsement deals, fact is, they don't. Derek Jeter is one of a kind and his deals are a pity compared to major athletes like Lebron, Tiger, Messi, etc. Even A-Rod was a million times more marketable then Cano prior to this Biogenesis scandal.

107 million dollars. You're right, Cano may have wanted to stay in NY, but he would haev been an absolute MORON to pass up that kind of money.


Cano showed everybody that he was money hungry. 100 mil or whatever amount, he is playing ball to get paid, he doesnt care about winning. He is horrendously overpaid

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12-10-2013, 09:55 AM
  #239
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while I didn't want to go 10 years, u can say that since Cano is 32, his contract is actually his worth when u compare it to the 7/153 ellsbury got.. Cano is a significantly better player

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12-11-2013, 08:49 AM
  #240
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The*#Yankees*would like to grab#indians*Masterson in a 3-team trade involving CF Gardner if they can pull it off. 8:27am*- 11 Dec 13

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12-11-2013, 09:26 AM
  #241
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The*#Yankees*would like to grab#indians*Masterson in a 3-team trade involving CF Gardner if they can pull it off. 8:27am*- 11 Dec 13
This has already been shot down as bunk

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12-11-2013, 04:23 PM
  #242
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NY Mets sign Bartolo Colon

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12-11-2013, 04:41 PM
  #243
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NY Mets sign Bartolo Colon
2 years 20 million. Great.

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12-11-2013, 04:50 PM
  #244
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How about if Noah pitches lights out in spring training and makes the team..Long shot sure but what a staff then ad Harvey the next year..Build with young cheap pitching is a great blue print to follow

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12-11-2013, 04:57 PM
  #245
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How about if Noah pitches lights out in spring training and makes the team..Long shot sure but what a staff then ad Harvey the next year..Build with young cheap pitching is a great blue print to follow
My friends are saying that a lot of outlets are now picking up on the Mets interest in Price.

Imagine '15 rotation of

Harvey
Price
Wheeler
Syndergaard
Colon/Gee/Mejia

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12-11-2013, 05:01 PM
  #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
My friends are saying that a lot of outlets are now picking up on the Mets interest in Price.

Imagine '15 rotation of

Harvey
Price
Wheeler
Syndergaard
Colon/Gee/Mejia
I doubt they're players for Price, and even if they are they can't get him without Wheeler or Syndergaard. The Montero, Flores, and Familia package can only get them so much.

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12-11-2013, 05:08 PM
  #247
Rust Heisenberg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRSchrute217 View Post
I doubt they're players for Price, and even if they are they can't get him without Wheeler or Syndergaard. The Montero, Flores, and Familia package can only get them so much.
They can conceivably get him with Niese Montero/D'Arnuad and Ike...

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Old
12-11-2013, 06:14 PM
  #248
surf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
They can conceivably get him with Niese Montero/D'Arnuad and Ike...

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Old
12-11-2013, 08:07 PM
  #249
offdacrossbar
with the 10th pick..
 
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colon a met ?

love it. hes a horse. solid era. pitcher friendly citi field will help. his sub 4.0 era last 3 seasons in the al tells me he can be the innings eater we need and take the ball every 5 days. hell be a good leader to out young staff.

good 2 yr bridge contract until harv returns.

now move ike for some bullpen help, keep the murph if possible unless we can trade/sign a quality ss.

ABT- anyone but tejada

well done sandy

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Old
12-11-2013, 08:11 PM
  #250
Zil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
They can conceivably get him with Niese Montero/D'Arnuad and Ike...
Why would we want to do that? Price only has two years of team control and we wouldn't even be able to pair him with Matt Harvey in the first one. We have tons of pitching talent. We desperately need bats. If I'm making a major deal, then it's for a hitter. Plus, dealing d'Arnaud is counterproductive. He's one of the only major league ready young position players we have.

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