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Raise the Jolly Roger: Ugh, Milwaukee

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Old
12-11-2013, 03:56 PM
  #76
sniugneP
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My guess is they will use Hart as DH.

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12-11-2013, 04:05 PM
  #77
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http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/1...n-volquez.html

Pirates just signed Edison Volquez to a one year 5 million dollar deal.

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12-11-2013, 04:30 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Oxide View Post
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/1...n-volquez.html

Pirates just signed Edison Volquez to a one year 5 million dollar deal.

Not a bad deal. Pretty cheap and he's got electric stuff. Has control problems but K's and gets a lot of ground balls. If Searage can rectify his control issues some, he could be yet another bounce back player.

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12-11-2013, 04:33 PM
  #79
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Not a bad deal. Pretty cheap and he's got electric stuff. Has control problems but K's and gets a lot of ground balls. If Searage can rectify his control issues some, he could be yet another bounce back player.
1 year 5 million is cheap? For a guy with a sub 4.0 era and low walk count, maybe. But not for Volquez. He was way overpaid here, this is a horrible signing...

5.71 ERA and MAJOR control problems. There were much better options, I would have even like to see Cumpton get a chance over him, he hasn't been himself in 4 years now...

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12-11-2013, 05:04 PM
  #80
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You don't get an off-the-shelf sub 4.0 ERA free agent on a 1 year/$5 million deal anymore. Volquez would be a $15 million arm if that were the case, if not more.

Volquez's XFIP was more than a run and a half lower than his ERA last year, so it's safe to expect the ERA top drop. I don't expect miracles, the control issues have been there since day one for him (unlike Liriano)...but he fits the Buccos M.O. of lots of Ks and tons of groundball outs.


The Pirates were going to add a starter in this price range regardless of Burnett's situation, so it's only a mild surprise that it's Volquez.

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12-11-2013, 05:25 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by hartnellbitme View Post
1 year 5 million is cheap? For a guy with a sub 4.0 era and low walk count, maybe. But not for Volquez. He was way overpaid here, this is a horrible signing...

5.71 ERA and MAJOR control problems. There were much better options, I would have even like to see Cumpton get a chance over him, he hasn't been himself in 4 years now...
Yup. It is cheap. Why is why you should raise your kids to play baseball and not hockey.

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12-11-2013, 05:37 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
You don't get an off-the-shelf sub 4.0 ERA free agent on a 1 year/$5 million deal anymore. Volquez would be a $15 million arm if that were the case, if not more.

Volquez's XFIP was more than a run and a half lower than his ERA last year, so it's safe to expect the ERA top drop. I don't expect miracles, the control issues have been there since day one for him (unlike Liriano)...but he fits the Buccos M.O. of lots of Ks and tons of groundball outs.


The Pirates were going to add a starter in this price range regardless of Burnett's situation, so it's only a mild surprise that it's Volquez.

Bartolo Colon just signed a two year 20 million dollar deal, sure he is getting up there in age and has a lower shelf life, but I think the risk of paying Volquez 5 mil over one year far outweighs the benefits... I could definitely see him throwing in AAA by the middle of the season.


Last edited by hartnellbitme: 12-11-2013 at 05:53 PM. Reason: read contract wrong...
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12-11-2013, 05:44 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oxide View Post
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/1...n-volquez.html

Pirates just signed Edison Volquez to a one year 5 million dollar deal.
This looks like a poor man's Francisco Liriano signing. Very poor season last year (until he got to Los Angeles), deceiving ERA (as attributed to much lower xFIP) and very high K and GB%.

Seems like a medium-risk/high-reward signing (best case scenario: #3/#4 pitcher who can eat innings and provide nice depth for the starting rotation).

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12-11-2013, 05:45 PM
  #84
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The fact that a 40 year-old pitcher a year removed from a 50-game suspension for synthetic testosterone use can still get $20 million guaranteed is pretty damning evidence of how much pitching is worth.

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12-11-2013, 05:56 PM
  #85
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Any thoughts on Johan Santana? Knowing that he's good friends with Liriano may allow us to sign him for very cheap and he is definitely a low-risk, high-reward type of player.

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12-11-2013, 06:15 PM
  #86
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I doubt Santana can be too effective again...that's two years out of three completely lost (21 mediocre starts in the middle year) for a guy who turns 35 before the season starts.

I think he'll ultimately go somewhere where he has a better chance of making the rotation, but I'd expect the Pirates to show interest until a certain price point. If we can get Santana on a $1 million + incentives deal then we absolutely should go for it because there's really nothing to lose there, but the market for pitching is so dire that I think someone will give him $4-5 million guaranteed and a guaranteed spot in the rotation.

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12-11-2013, 06:37 PM
  #87
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Volquez isn't bad for the back end of the rotation and if all else fails he can move to be the long guy in the pen. Not jumping for joy over the signing, but it's a decent move.

Just say "NO" to Johan

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12-11-2013, 07:12 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Gunnar Staal View Post
Pirates sign Morton to a three-year extension starting in 2015. $8 million for the first two seasons and $9.5 million for the last year.

If he can keep up his performance from the second half of last season (and there's a good chance he could), this is a great contract.
Fantastic move by the Pirates. Huntington is just so good, Morton will outperform this contract by a wide margin if he stays healthy.

It's the kind if move the A's have been making a lot in recent years.

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12-11-2013, 09:09 PM
  #89
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Christ, Trumbo netted Skaggs, a 2/3 type, in a 3 way deal so who knows what teams are willing to pay for a 1B.

Wilson might be a good asset to flip, but he is still dirt cheap and very good and not due for arbitration until 2015. I wouldn't move him unless I got a massive overpay especially from a team who thought he could be a starter since he is making the league minimum. He could be an eventual Grilli/Melancon successor if kept until his 2nd arb.
FWIW, a lot has been written here in Phoenix about how Skaggs has seemed to regress over the past couple of seasons. There were very high hopes for him not long ago, but many now think he's a bottom of the rotation guy, if that.

Skaggs could be the next Max Scherzer or the next Trevor Bauer, but there is no great sense of loss at this point. People are just curious to see if Trumbo will be the next Mark Reynolds or if the ballpark will help him develop into something more than that.

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12-11-2013, 09:47 PM
  #90
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Agree with everyone, happy to see Ground Chuck get some money. I've always believed.

I think the Volquez deal should put us out on any kind of reclamation situation. Maybe we would still gamble on Santana if Burnett retires, but I doubt it. Volquez does have serious control problems, but if Searage works some magic, he does have a decent upside. Either way it's not the worst depth move to have around--his K numbers are always pretty good, and so he could be useful as a depth option.

The 1B market has really turned to ****. It is not worth giving up anything significant to get Ike Davis or Mitch Moreland. Loney would be much better than anything else, and doesn't require losing assets. Now that the Mariners are signing all the 1Bs, he's in a position to sit and demand the 10 mil/year. The Brewers were prepared to give nearly that much to Hart, and a bad scenario would be missing out on him to a division rival that shouldn't be counted on to suck as bad next year. I think it's now pretty much a matter of being the highest bidder on Loney, which might have a connection with whether Burnett is coming back or not.

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12-11-2013, 10:06 PM
  #91
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Adam Rubin just chimed in to say that his sense is that the loser between Rays and Brewers will end up with Ike Davis, with whom the Mets are being reasonable in their trade demands. The Pirates are also in on Davis, but less interested, which I count as a good sign because he sucks.

His speculation is that Loney wants 3 years but won't get more than 2. If it's a two-year deal, I'm definitely happy to see the Pirates overspend to get him here. 3 years makes the whole thing less palatable, but he'd be as solid as any other option for 2 years.

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12-11-2013, 10:17 PM
  #92
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The Mariners really mucked up what was looking to be a very, very buyer friendly first base market.

I'm glad Griffey, ARod and The Big Unit left them...

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12-12-2013, 11:22 AM
  #93
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Pirates lose Wei-Chung Wang to the Brewers in the Rule 5 draft. He pitched in the GCL, but has a a chance to stick since he has mid 90s velo with a good CB from the left side probably as a reliever like Adcock with the Royals a few years ago.

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12-12-2013, 11:26 AM
  #94
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**** the Mariners! They have singlehandedly screwed up the 1B market, they now have 3 of them, and a 4th blocked due to draft pick compensation. What a terrible management team they have. Would hate to be a Mariners pitcher that's for sure, that team just does not value defense at all.


Last edited by Big McLargehuge: 12-12-2013 at 11:34 AM. Reason: Fully ****ing censor, people.
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12-12-2013, 11:29 AM
  #95
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Looks like Barmes coming back, don't see anything on the terms yet.

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12-12-2013, 11:34 AM
  #96
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The Brewers thought 'outside of the box' in selecting Wei-Chung Wang in the Rule 5 Draft...I call it thinking 'durrrrrrrrrr derp derp derp' and then smacking themselves in the head with a flagon of ale.

That'll be an easy $25k profit for the Pirates, if nothing else. Wang is a 21 year-old pitcher who's pitched 47.1 innings in North America, all in the Gulf Coast League, and already had Tommy John Surgery. Does he have good stuff? Absolutely...but he's years away from being a viable candidate to make the Majors in any form and to make him fit they're destroying the value he has by making him a reliever instead of a starter. If you make the change this soon it's awfully hard for a guy to go back, especially because he's not at a level where he's even pitching 5 innings a start yet (47.1 innings in 12 games and 11 starts).

I'm sure we'll get some fans saying 'how do you not protect this kid?!'...but the Pirates would have essentially killed a 40-man roster spot for 3 or 4 years in the off-chance the kid works out. You don't put kids this low in the system on the 40-man roster.

On the flip side I'm absolutely shocked and happy that Zach Thornton went unclaimed...a 25 year-old with AAA experience, a good arm, good stats.

Oh yeah, and Nathan Adcock had a 6.67 ERA in AAA last year after the Royals tried to revert him back to starter after two years as a rarely-used soft innings reliever...and he was at least selected after a full-season at high A ball.



Clint Barmes is back in the fold, which isn't too surprising given the market for short stops and the fact we just needed a defensive back-up. Now that he'll be paid as such instead of an every-day starter makes his presence on the roster much easier to stomach.

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12-12-2013, 11:34 AM
  #97
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Looks like Barmes coming back, don't see anything on the terms yet.
If it's a 1yr/$2(ish)m I'll be happy with that. I would think his glove alone is worth that in the late innings through the season.

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12-12-2013, 11:54 AM
  #98
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Barmes deal is 1 yr and 2 mil according to Olney.

I'm ok with that contract as long as we have better bench bats than his.


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12-12-2013, 12:12 PM
  #99
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The Brewers thought 'outside of the box' in selecting Wei-Chung Wang in the Rule 5 Draft...I call it thinking 'durrrrrrrrrr derp derp derp' and then smacking themselves in the head with a flagon of ale.

That'll be an easy $25k profit for the Pirates, if nothing else. Wang is a 21 year-old pitcher who's pitched 47.1 innings in North America, all in the Gulf Coast League, and already had Tommy John Surgery. Does he have good stuff? Absolutely...but he's years away from being a viable candidate to make the Majors in any form and to make him fit they're destroying the value he has by making him a reliever instead of a starter. If you make the change this soon it's awfully hard for a guy to go back, especially because he's not at a level where he's even pitching 5 innings a start yet (47.1 innings in 12 games and 11 starts).

I'm sure we'll get some fans saying 'how do you not protect this kid?!'...but the Pirates would have essentially killed a 40-man roster spot for 3 or 4 years in the off-chance the kid works out. You don't put kids this low in the system on the 40-man roster.

On the flip side I'm absolutely shocked and happy that Zach Thornton went unclaimed...a 25 year-old with AAA experience, a good arm, good stats.

Oh yeah, and Nathan Adcock had a 6.67 ERA in AAA last year after the Royals tried to revert him back to starter after two years as a rarely-used soft innings reliever...and he was at least selected after a full-season at high A ball.



Clint Barmes is back in the fold, which isn't too surprising given the market for short stops and the fact we just needed a defensive back-up. Now that he'll be paid as such instead of an every-day starter makes his presence on the roster much easier to stomach.
I am sad to see anyone named 'wee wang' go.

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12-12-2013, 12:14 PM
  #100
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Pirates produce a lot of ground balls so 2M for a really good defensive SS is pretty good value even if he is a 0 at the plate.

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