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curious thinking on a trade......

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Old
12-07-2013, 10:02 PM
  #26
BillyShoe1721
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Would take Nich over Yak any day of the week, hes bigger and faster and more committed to the game. + he's a Flyers fan.


Nichushkin is a good skater for his size, but in a straight line race Yakupov would smoke him.

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12-07-2013, 10:38 PM
  #27
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Yeah, they definitely don't have a reason to trade him.

Maybe for some bad-decent prospects.

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12-08-2013, 03:43 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by dilbert719 View Post
At which point, B. Schenn will also have established himself, and we'll have a better handle on what Luke is. It may very well still sound like an overpayment then.
Luke's ceiling is a Nick Grossmann clone and B. Schenn will be a streaky second line winger who is easily pushed off the puck and average at best at playing defense.

Nishuskin could become the next Malkin. Not guaranteed of course.

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12-08-2013, 03:59 AM
  #29
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With Nashville in a freefall now might be a good time to pry one of their defencemen out of them.
Reading their board they would be happy to give up a Weber for a good return!

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12-08-2013, 11:01 AM
  #30
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in all honesty id do brayden schenn and two seconds for him.....brayden schenn is way to inconsistent weak when has the puck and honestly was never very good idk why he has such a high celing he will never ever hit

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Old
12-08-2013, 11:28 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by dats81 View Post
Luke's ceiling is a Nick Grossmann clone and B. Schenn will be a streaky second line winger who is easily pushed off the puck and average at best at playing defense.

Nishuskin could become the next Malkin. Not guaranteed of course.
Luke has the better offensive game even if it hasn't been shown this year. Just look at their career numbers. Schenn has 30 more points in 30 less NHL games. That may not sound like a lot but if you consider Grosmmann's NHL total points at 57 points, 30 points is over a 50% increase.

Also I'm pretty sure B Schenn's streaky-ness will change with experience. People forget but he has the equivalence of less then 2 NHL seasons under his belt, substantially less actually. Also being a ~45 point winger (while getting 3rd line minutes) is a top line winger not second line if you go by the numbers. Even though I think he'll be closer to being a consistent 50+ pt player when all is said and done.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with your assessment of the proposed trade just that I don't agree with your assessment of the Schenns.

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Old
12-08-2013, 05:07 PM
  #32
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How about Gaborik?
Trade Hartnell/Simmonds and Mesz for Gabby. We get great goalscorer who wants out from Columbus, they get D-man and forward who could shine in new team.

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12-09-2013, 10:03 AM
  #33
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No need to give them an asset for an underperforming UFA.

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12-09-2013, 10:32 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Woolinthesea View Post
How about Gaborik?
Trade Hartnell/Simmonds and Mesz for Gabby. We get great goalscorer who wants out from Columbus, they get D-man and forward who could shine in new team.
If we are trading Simmonds, we can surely get something better than Gaborik.

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12-09-2013, 10:42 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
If we are trading Simmonds, we can surely get something better than Gaborik.
Gaborik is pretty good. He had a down year last year, but the guy can still play. I love Simmonds and I think he's being made a scapegoat unnecessarily this season (he's playing poorly, but I think he's not a lost cause as some seem to think), but if Simmonds could net Marian Gaborik and he fits under the cap, I would do that deal a million times in a row. He may not net the 40-50 goals he was once capable of (I know, I know he never hit 50 but he was in that range), but on this team I would put him at a lock for 30. If it is Simmonds + (and it would be), depending on who the + is I would think about it, but I would not blink at including Simmonds in a deal.

Injury concerns are the only thing that really scared me about him.

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Old
12-09-2013, 10:51 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Gaborik is pretty good. He had a down year last year, but the guy can still play. I love Simmonds and I think he's being made a scapegoat unnecessarily this season (he's playing poorly, but I think he's not a lost cause as some seem to think), but if Simmonds could net Marian Gaborik and he fits under the cap, I would do that deal a million times in a row. He may not net the 40-50 goals he was once capable of (I know, I know he never hit 50 but he was in that range), but on this team I would put him at a lock for 30. If it is Simmonds + (and it would be), depending on who the + is I would think about it, but I would not blink at including Simmonds in a deal.

Injury concerns are the only thing that really scared me about him.
Apparently to some the idea of Gaborik with G is "laughable" because he's a "perimeter" player

Guess we'll just have to wait for Shartnell to get his ***** together....

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12-09-2013, 11:23 AM
  #37
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No thanks on trading assets for Gaborik. He doesn't fit with the core of the team too.

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12-09-2013, 11:31 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingPhilly View Post
No thanks on trading assets for Gaborik. He doesn't fit with the core of the team too.
You don't think Gabo would fit in here? Why not? This team needs a scoring winger. Pretty desperately. I know he is ancient at a shocking 31 years old and had a bad year last year, but I don't see the issue with him fitting in. The only issue with Gaborik is his health and the fact that he is injury prone. Other than that, I think Gaborik could be the goal scorer that this team needs. That being said, I don't think that there is any chance that this trade ever gets done.

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12-09-2013, 11:34 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
You don't think Gabo would fit in here? Why not? This team needs a scoring winger. Pretty desperately. I know he is ancient at a shocking 31 years old and had a bad year last year, but I don't see the issue with him fitting in. The only issue with Gaborik is his health and the fact that he is injury prone. Other than that, I think Gaborik could be the goal scorer that this team needs. That being said, I don't think that there is any chance that this trade ever gets done.
What makes people think adding Gaborik would make this team a contender? He isn't gonna propel the Flyers into contender status and compete for a Cup. You trade away assets for him and won't really get anywhere. Then, by the time the Flyers are ready to compete in a few years, Gaborik would be even further into his decline. There is no good reason to expend resources to trade for Gaborik. Flyers should be getting players that are younger and fit into long terms plans.

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Old
12-09-2013, 11:38 AM
  #40
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Why not Dany all star Heatley. He would cost barely anything and has always done well with star linemates.

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Old
12-09-2013, 11:44 AM
  #41
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I wouldn't expend too many assets for Gaborik either but only b/c I agree this team needs more and Gaborik would be a UFA. If they got him for a stopgap while getting rid of a longer term contract like Hartnell's I would consider it however. Otherwise, I disagree that his talents wouldn't be a fit here. I think him and G would complement each other pretty well..better than those two anchors he is playing with now...

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12-09-2013, 12:31 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingPhilly View Post
What makes people think adding Gaborik would make this team a contender? He isn't gonna propel the Flyers into contender status and compete for a Cup. You trade away assets for him and won't really get anywhere. Then, by the time the Flyers are ready to compete in a few years, Gaborik would be even further into his decline. There is no good reason to expend resources to trade for Gaborik. Flyers should be getting players that are younger and fit into long terms plans.
I think you are misinterpreting what I am saying. I'm not saying let's trade Scott Laughton or Samuel Morin or other blue chip prospect for Marian Gaborik. I'm simply stating a) I would be more than happy to give up Simmonds in a deal for Gabo and b) that Gaborik would be an upgrade to the scoring of this team. He is 31, he's not finished yet. The Flyers have a handful of guys over 30 right now (one of which, Timonen, will likely retire after this year), adding one more isn't a bad thing, especially if that is a perennial 30 goal scorer. Everyone around here seems to think that younger automatically means better, which is not always the case. If Simmonds can get you Gabo, even if he is a shocking six years or so older, you do it.

I'm not advocating trading Simmonds. I like Simmonds. I would not be shopping him if I were GM. But if he could be used to get Gaborik, you do it. Wayne Simmonds, as much as I like him, is not the type of asset that will command a huge return.

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Old
12-09-2013, 12:37 PM
  #43
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Eh. I'd like to have Gaborik but I don't see how it can happen.

Trading anything significant with him going to UFA is really risky.

He's also 31, so we would trade ourselves into a situation where we would be giving a large cap hit for who knows how long to a guy who's set to get worse over time instead of better. We already have about 15 mil in cap space tied to forwards in that situation, I don't think we need more.

That's a move that should be made if the team is set to make a run to the Finals...not while they're in the Flyers' state. He could be over 35 and a shell of his former self by the time this team is ready to compete again, judging by the D situation.

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12-09-2013, 12:49 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Eh. I'd like to have Gaborik but I don't see how it can happen.

Trading anything significant with him going to UFA is really risky.

He's also 31, so we would trade ourselves into a situation where we would be giving a large cap hit for who knows how long to a guy who's set to get worse over time instead of better. We already have about 15 mil in cap space tied to forwards in that situation, I don't think we need more.

That's a move that should be made if the team is set to make a run to the Finals...not while they're in the Flyers' state. He could be over 35 and a shell of his former self by the time this team is ready to compete again, judging by the D situation.
He's a UFA at the end of the year (which I didn't realize) so at this point I would have to go back and say I likely would not trade Simmonds for him unless this team goes on a tear between now and the deadline. I thought he was signed longer-term. That being said, I wouldn't be too worried about his decline. You can't avoid players that are over 30 just because they are over 30. I wouldn't deal much for him as a rental, but if he were signed long term (or willing to do so once traded), I would still be interested. Again, I wouldn't trade everything we have for him, but if Simmonds was the starting point, I'd be all over it. Gabo will obviously decline as the years go on, but he's likely got 3-4 years of 30+ goal season potential left in him. That is not something to just gloss over because he is over 30.

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12-09-2013, 12:58 PM
  #45
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You can avoid players over 30 just because they're over 30 if they're going to command a high, long-term cap hit for their decline years. This is where it's ideal to have a constant stream of talent coming in via prospects, so your team doesn't have to resort to keeping lots of those guys or signing lots of them.

Edit: We already have Lecavalier and Hartnell. Add Gaborik to the mix and the team is starting to look like something Sather would build.

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12-09-2013, 01:31 PM
  #46
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We already have the likes of Streit and Lecavalier with long-term deals in their twilight years and neither one of those contracts is looking impressive right now. I'd rather not go for a third player like that at least not with that type of contract.

Signing your own player to a deal like that is one thing because you get to negotiate with him before everyone else does and thus there's no bidding war going on really. Plus as long as there's no hostility between the player and the franchise it's likely that both parties would like the player to re-sign there.

In free agency almost every player comes at an overpaid premium, especially star players. So even just because of that factor signing free agents to big deals can be very risky, but if you also make it so that the player is heading towards the latter half of their careers or on a downward trend (like Lecavalier or Streit) it just becomes that much more risky.

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12-09-2013, 01:38 PM
  #47
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I think Winnipeg and the Flyers would make good trading partners. Both teams are talented on paper but mediocre and inconsistent on the ice. A shake up could be beneficial for both teams.

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12-09-2013, 02:36 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by FreshPerspective View Post
I wouldn't expend too many assets for Gaborik either but only b/c I agree this team needs more and Gaborik would be a UFA. If they got him for a stopgap while getting rid of a longer term contract like Hartnell's I would consider it however. Otherwise, I disagree that his talents wouldn't be a fit here. I think him and G would complement each other pretty well..better than those two anchors he is playing with now...
If that is the trade then I have no issues with it. I was referring more to the Simmonds for Gaborik idea. I never said his talents wouldn't fit. I said his age doesn't fit in with the core already in place. If you can sign Gaborik for free then sure, but trading Simmonds? No thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I think you are misinterpreting what I am saying. I'm not saying let's trade Scott Laughton or Samuel Morin or other blue chip prospect for Marian Gaborik. I'm simply stating a) I would be more than happy to give up Simmonds in a deal for Gabo and b) that Gaborik would be an upgrade to the scoring of this team. He is 31, he's not finished yet. The Flyers have a handful of guys over 30 right now (one of which, Timonen, will likely retire after this year), adding one more isn't a bad thing, especially if that is a perennial 30 goal scorer. Everyone around here seems to think that younger automatically means better, which is not always the case. If Simmonds can get you Gabo, even if he is a shocking six years or so older, you do it.

I'm not advocating trading Simmonds. I like Simmonds. I would not be shopping him if I were GM. But if he could be used to get Gaborik, you do it. Wayne Simmonds, as much as I like him, is not the type of asset that will command a huge return.
No, I think you are not understanding what I am saying. I am saying I don't want to trade younger roster players for older players, never anything about prospects. If the trade is Hartnell, then sure. Simmonds fits better with the core than Gaborik and Hartnell in terms of age.

I never said younger is better. I said the Flyers should look to acquire younger players, as in younger than Gaborik. It isn't like swapping Simmonds for Gaborik is gonna make this team a lot better than they are currently, so what is the point in that trade? I disagree in Simmonds not having a lot of value.

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Old
12-09-2013, 02:54 PM
  #49
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Brayden Schenn is in his 3rd year and still hasn't taken that step towards being a consistent player. He also really hasn't had a stretch where he was noticeably dominant, though he had a good first 20 games or so last year. I don't think there are teams out there who view Schenn as a missing link, or a piece to build around and as a result that is going to make his value less than what we fans would like to believe.

The only thing you're going to swap Schenn for is a similar player, packaging him for Evander Kane or Max Pacioretty would be nice, but there is little reason for the Habs or Jets to settle for that type of package compared to what other teams would likely offer.

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Old
12-09-2013, 03:05 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
Brayden Schenn is in his 3rd year
Maybe he'll never be that good, but he's still very young so I'm not keen on trading him unless it's for an overpayment. Some players don't break out till their mid 20s.

B Schenn - 62 points in his first 139 games

D Sedin - 66 points in first 154 games

H Sedin - 65 points in his first 164 games

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