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Old
01-08-2014, 04:51 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by scott99 View Post
He's played pretty well, but like Bill Parcells used to say, let's not get a bust of his likeness for the Hall of Fame just yet. He is -8, so that is worrisome. Even the whipping boy fo the year, Matt Donovan is -5. So I'm not gonna get too excited, BUT, I do like his calmness and his passing, as well as his skating. We shall see, nice to see the kid get his first assists on Monday and his first NHL goal last night.
de Haan also averages 3 full minutes more than what Donovan averaged/is averaging, and has consistently been playing top-pairing minutes along with Hamonic. I can only cringe trying to think of how Donovan would look getting the responsibilities that CdH has been given.

Aside from that, +/- is probably one of the most useless stats, especially when trying to determine how de Haan has played thus far.

To say that a kid who has stepped in as a rookie and become one of this team's top pairing defensemen in about 10 games has only been 'pretty good' is severely understating the impact he has made. It's even more impressive when you consider about 50% of this fanbase wrote the kid off prior to the season.

I'm guessing that because you were a part of that 50%, you are having a hard time giving him his due. I think I remember you being against the call-up due to his AHL stat sheet. Sometimes numbers don't tell the whole story, or in this case even half of it.

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01-08-2014, 05:53 PM
  #102
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Im really happy to see CdH playing well. But why didn't he start the year on LI? Did he need the extra month or 2 in the AHL to get his legs under him? Was it a coaching mistake? I am going to assume Donovan looked better then him in camp? I feel as if, had he been playing here for the first game of the year, we might be better defensively had he started from day 1. Just my opinion. It is just sad to notice that every now and again we see guys come up from BP, surprise us with their play and my speculation of the good play would be the guys coming up with no pressure since we don't want to show up and play any games in November. It seemed as though as Cdh started to pick up his play, the team started to not stink as much. I am not saying Cdh is the reason we started to play better, but who knows maybe the guys in the room started to wake up after slumbering through Nov and half of December.

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01-08-2014, 06:17 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Poliz24 View Post
Im really happy to see CdH playing well. But why didn't he start the year on LI? Did he need the extra month or 2 in the AHL to get his legs under him? Was it a coaching mistake? I am going to assume Donovan looked better then him in camp? I feel as if, had he been playing here for the first game of the year, we might be better defensively had he started from day 1. Just my opinion. It is just sad to notice that every now and again we see guys come up from BP, surprise us with their play and my speculation of the good play would be the guys coming up with no pressure since we don't want to show up and play any games in November. It seemed as though as Cdh started to pick up his play, the team started to not stink as much. I am not saying Cdh is the reason we started to play better, but who knows maybe the guys in the room started to wake up after slumbering through Nov and half of December.
I think is is a fair question. Personally, I chalk part of it up to the fact that some players that are not good in the AHL are good in the NHL and some players that are good in the AHL are not good in the NHL. It muddles the waters and makes it hard to see who is ready for the next step.

But also, this fanbase (and pretty much every fanbase) needs to give credit where credit is due. No one is theorizing that it is possible that CdH is playing so well BECAUSE he started the season in Bridgeport. It's always either: we brought this kid up way too early and he's not ready, or he looks good and we had him sitting in the minors/juniors when he was ready. If Reinhart makes the team and is amazing next year, fans will complain that he wasn't here this year. But it is easy to dish out that criticism in hindsight when we don't have the liberty to know if his success that year can be attributed to the year he got to play in juniors. There needs to be some middle ground for us armchair GMs.

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01-08-2014, 06:23 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Poliz24 View Post
Im really happy to see CdH playing well. But why didn't he start the year on LI? Did he need the extra month or 2 in the AHL to get his legs under him? Was it a coaching mistake? I am going to assume Donovan looked better then him in camp? I feel as if, had he been playing here for the first game of the year, we might be better defensively had he started from day 1. Just my opinion. It is just sad to notice that every now and again we see guys come up from BP, surprise us with their play and my speculation of the good play would be the guys coming up with no pressure since we don't want to show up and play any games in November. It seemed as though as Cdh started to pick up his play, the team started to not stink as much. I am not saying Cdh is the reason we started to play better, but who knows maybe the guys in the room started to wake up after slumbering through Nov and half of December.


He was just coming off a major injury. I think the plan, if Donovan had worked out, would be to keep CDH in the AHL for a full year.

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01-08-2014, 06:36 PM
  #105
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I think is is a fair question. Personally, I chalk part of it up to the fact that some players that are not good in the AHL are good in the NHL and some players that are good in the AHL are not good in the NHL. It muddles the waters and makes it hard to see who is ready for the next step.

But also, this fanbase (and pretty much every fanbase) needs to give credit where credit is due. No one is theorizing that it is possible that CdH is playing so well BECAUSE he started the season in Bridgeport. It's always either: we brought this kid up way too early and he's not ready, or he looks good and we had him sitting in the minors/juniors when he was ready. If Reinhart makes the team and is amazing next year, fans will complain that he wasn't here this year. But it is easy to dish out that criticism in hindsight when we don't have the liberty to know if his success that year can be attributed to the year he got to play in juniors. There needs to be some middle ground for us armchair GMs.
I understand your point about him playing well due to him being ready and not coming up soon enough. Yet, I do think we don't have to be a GM to realize we sucked for all of November, he comes up at the end of NOV and all of a sudden things start to change SOMEWHAT, (I thought we were more competitive in DEC). I am not saying he is the reason things changed, but who knows. Who knows where we would be if his play became more consistent through him playing in october, maybe the loss of VIS wouldn't have been such a blow to us had he been playing and getting better everyday at the NHL level. Just a thought.

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01-08-2014, 06:56 PM
  #106
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I am rooting for his shoulder. The kid knows what he is doing out there and I fully trust him when he is on the ice. Very refreshing to see and Im relieved. Always been a de Haan fan. Ever since he was drafted he defended himself from critics about his lanky size. You could tell he heard it a lot and it bothered him. That chip on his shoulder made him who he is IMO. That is that poise we always talk about. The brain is the best weapon in your arsenal if you know how to use it. De Haan is a great example of that.

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01-08-2014, 10:36 PM
  #107
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I am rooting for his shoulder. The kid knows what he is doing out there and I fully trust him when he is on the ice. Very refreshing to see and Im relieved. Always been a de Haan fan. Ever since he was drafted he defended himself from critics about his lanky size. You could tell he heard it a lot and it bothered him. That chip on his shoulder made him who he is IMO. That is that poise we always talk about. The brain is the best weapon in your arsenal if you know how to use it. De Haan is a great example of that.
Agreed. He is a very intelligent and methodical individual. It's apparent in his interviews and the way he plays the game. He's definitely more physical than I thought he'd be, as I've seen him muscle opposing players off the puck. And he's so poised in his own end with the puck. A very, very pleasant surprise after I completely wrote him off because of his injury history. Hope everything continues to work out.

Now what will our defense look like next year? I'm interested in seeing whether we'll have both Reinhart and Pulock in the lineup to start the season if both impress in training camp. That is HIGHLY unlikely, but one thing is for sure: TC will be very competitive.

I still hope we sign a top-4 guy to drive home the point that no one, besides Hammer, is a lock.

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01-08-2014, 11:09 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
de Haan also averages 3 full minutes more than what Donovan averaged/is averaging, and has consistently been playing top-pairing minutes along with Hamonic. I can only cringe trying to think of how Donovan would look getting the responsibilities that CdH has been given.

Aside from that, +/- is probably one of the most useless stats, especially when trying to determine how de Haan has played thus far.

To say that a kid who has stepped in as a rookie and become one of this team's top pairing defensemen in about 10 games has only been 'pretty good' is severely understating the impact he has made. It's even more impressive when you consider about 50% of this fanbase wrote the kid off prior to the season.

I'm guessing that because you were a part of that 50%, you are having a hard time giving him his due. I think I remember you being against the call-up due to his AHL stat sheet. Sometimes numbers don't tell the whole story, or in this case even half of it.
Sure I was part of the 50%, without a doubt. BUT do you think I wanted him to fail and be a bust ? Hell no. I'm an Isle's fan first and foremost, and whoever can help us win I'm all for. I've never rooted for a prospect to fail, didn't love the pick at the time, let's not forget, he was drafted the same year as Tavares, JT is in his fifth year, this is the first year CDH has played in the NHL (fulltime), I just rather be more reserved before I label him a success. Like I said, he's been pretty good, been more good than bad. What more can you ask for.

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01-08-2014, 11:18 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by StumpNYI View Post
I am rooting for his shoulder. The kid knows what he is doing out there and I fully trust him when he is on the ice. Very refreshing to see and Im relieved. Always been a de Haan fan. Ever since he was drafted he defended himself from critics about his lanky size. You could tell he heard it a lot and it bothered him. That chip on his shoulder made him who he is IMO. That is that poise we always talk about. The brain is the best weapon in your arsenal if you know how to use it. De Haan is a great example of that.
That's the first thing I noticed about him when he started up here. He didn't shy away from contact. For all of Wishart's size he is a giant ***** compared to CdH. Huge props to Calvin for not protecting his shoulder. The kid has a healthy physical game. I wish some of the others would watch what he does and mimic it.

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01-08-2014, 11:35 PM
  #110
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CdH's shoulder injuries in the pro's weren't from hits. The last one, he was in a skirmish in front of the net and fell awkwardly. Everyone just assumed that he got hit hard and is made of glass.

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01-09-2014, 08:04 AM
  #111
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I think is is a fair question. Personally, I chalk part of it up to the fact that some players that are not good in the AHL are good in the NHL and some players that are good in the AHL are not good in the NHL. It muddles the waters and makes it hard to see who is ready for the next step.

But also, this fanbase (and pretty much every fanbase) needs to give credit where credit is due. No one is theorizing that it is possible that CdH is playing so well BECAUSE he started the season in Bridgeport. It's always either: we brought this kid up way too early and he's not ready, or he looks good and we had him sitting in the minors/juniors when he was ready. If Reinhart makes the team and is amazing next year, fans will complain that he wasn't here this year. But it is easy to dish out that criticism in hindsight when we don't have the liberty to know if his success that year can be attributed to the year he got to play in juniors. There needs to be some middle ground for us armchair GMs.
Exactly, The biggest difference between the AHL, or juniors for that matter, is the speed of the game. I don't mean how fast the players are skating but how fast the players decision process is. You have much less time and space so your thought process has to amp up dramatically. Most rookies are forced into so many mistakes because of the speed increase. Some players can make that jump right away, some take more time, and some can never make that adjustment.
That's why you have to be very careful about reading too much into a players preseason play. First of all the lineups are full of players that aren't going to be in the NHL yet, and second, the vets aren't going at full tilt. They are just out there trying to get into game shape without getting injured.
In Reinhart's situation I think they made the right move even though in hindsight it looks like we could have used him now. No one knew Donovan was going to flop or Strait and Vis were going to lose so much time. Our problem wasn't the fact that we had a horrible defense as much as we had horrible defensive depth and goaltending.

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01-09-2014, 10:46 AM
  #112
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Sure I was part of the 50%, without a doubt. BUT do you think I wanted him to fail and be a bust ? Hell no. I'm an Isle's fan first and foremost, and whoever can help us win I'm all for. I've never rooted for a prospect to fail, didn't love the pick at the time, let's not forget, he was drafted the same year as Tavares, JT is in his fifth year, this is the first year CDH has played in the NHL (fulltime), I just rather be more reserved before I label him a success. Like I said, he's been pretty good, been more good than bad. What more can you ask for.
Most young defensemen take longer to develop. Both physically and mentally. Remember how much Tavares got pushed around his first couple of seasons? You can somewhat get away with it a forward but absolutely cannot on defense. Also mistakes by a forward can be covered up for by the oter forwards, defense and the goalie, the defensemen makes a mistake and unless the goalie bails you out it's in the net. I like what I see from CDH and hope he continues to improve and become a top pairing Dman. Then, and maybe then, we will never have to hear all the critics on these boards chirp about all the picks that were spent to move up and get him.

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01-09-2014, 11:23 AM
  #113
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Calvin seemed so unlucky with his shoulder injuries. What is surprising is how strong his play has been.During all the rehab he has gone through appears to have a good effect on his strength. He always had skills, skating and the high IQ. A lot of us had written him off, he is like found money.

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01-09-2014, 01:20 PM
  #114
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CdH's shoulder injuries in the pro's weren't from hits. The last one, he was in a skirmish in front of the net and fell awkwardly. Everyone just assumed that he got hit hard and is made of glass.
After Martinek and Ricky laying expectations out what do you expect from a fan base regarding serial injury? That said, let's not jinx the kid. I could go a year without the flu, but the day after mentioning that I will get the flu. You know what I mean?

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01-09-2014, 01:39 PM
  #115
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Sure I was part of the 50%, without a doubt. BUT do you think I wanted him to fail and be a bust ? Hell no. I'm an Isle's fan first and foremost, and whoever can help us win I'm all for. I've never rooted for a prospect to fail, didn't love the pick at the time, let's not forget, he was drafted the same year as Tavares, JT is in his fifth year, this is the first year CDH has played in the NHL (fulltime), I just rather be more reserved before I label him a success. Like I said, he's been pretty good, been more good than bad. What more can you ask for.
I don't think you are/were rooting for him to fail, I just think you are procrastinating on that big dish of crow that's been served.

As far as the development time, I'm not sure how that matters. It's not like he just couldn't play well enough to warrant a callup. Matt Donovan, who you seem to be higher on that CdH, is a year older, has never been injured(as far as I know), and still hasn't been able to crack the lineup. 4th round pick vs 1st round pick, so obviously the two are different, but going into this season most people had Donovan rated as the better prospect.

Maybe on the grand scale, CdH has only been 'pretty good'. In context though, a 22 year old kid who was essentially written off by half the fan base, and the other half put his chances at playing in the NHL this year at 0%, has come in and become 1/2 of our top-pairing. That is incredible. To not be completely impressed with the way he's played thus far is crazy, especially considering how desperate we all were another reliable D. Not to mention another building block on defense. In CdH we've gotten both.

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01-09-2014, 05:05 PM
  #116
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Im really happy to see CdH playing well. But why didn't he start the year on LI?
Conditioning. 100%

I remember tweeting with Bridgeport's "beat writer" asking why Cal sat out a practice or a game (can't remember which) and he told me it was because of lower body/conditioning/fatigue etc.

Skating is an important, if not the most important asset Cal has to his game and he missed an entire year of games due to his shoulder injury while Donovan was playing top minutes in Bridgeport every night for the past two years.

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01-09-2014, 06:38 PM
  #117
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I don't think you are/were rooting for him to fail, I just think you are procrastinating on that big dish of crow that's been served.

As far as the development time, I'm not sure how that matters. It's not like he just couldn't play well enough to warrant a callup. Matt Donovan, who you seem to be higher on that CdH, is a year older, has never been injured(as far as I know), and still hasn't been able to crack the lineup. 4th round pick vs 1st round pick, so obviously the two are different, but going into this season most people had Donovan rated as the better prospect.

Maybe on the grand scale, CdH has only been 'pretty good'. In context though, a 22 year old kid who was essentially written off by half the fan base, and the other half put his chances at playing in the NHL this year at 0%, has come in and become 1/2 of our top-pairing. That is incredible. To not be completely impressed with the way he's played thus far is crazy, especially considering how desperate we all were another reliable D. Not to mention another building block on defense. In CdH we've gotten both.
Never said I wasn't impressed, and I said he played pretty well. Not gonna say he's been great or awesome, because in reality he hasn't. He's been pretty good and impressive. No crow eating here, you guys act like he's the next coming of Kenny Jonsson. I'm saying, let's wait and see. He's a rookie defenseman who seems very pretty heady out there. Seems very calm, YET, I've seen some glaring mistakes and I see a -8 defenseman. I know +/- isn't everything, but it does matter, it does mean something. If I see him on the allrookie team at the end of the year, then I'll have my portion of crow parmigiana.

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01-09-2014, 06:50 PM
  #118
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Conditioning. 100%

I remember tweeting with Bridgeport's "beat writer" asking why Cal sat out a practice or a game (can't remember which) and he told me it was because of lower body/conditioning/fatigue etc.

Skating is an important, if not the most important asset Cal has to his game and he missed an entire year of games due to his shoulder injury while Donovan was playing top minutes in Bridgeport every night for the past two years.
We really cannot call CdH Cal. This post had me confused as heck for a second.

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01-09-2014, 10:09 PM
  #119
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We really cannot call CdH Cal. This post had me confused as heck for a second.
We well are in the Calvin de Haan thread.

But yes, I will refer to him as CdH from now on.

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01-09-2014, 10:17 PM
  #120
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We well are in the Calvin de Haan thread.

But yes, I will refer to him as CdH from now on.
Haha. I think it was the second paragraph for me, because Clutterbuck had fatigue whike skating in our system and a lower body injury. I'm also an idiot.

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01-09-2014, 10:22 PM
  #121
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Haha. I think it was the second paragraph for me, because Clutterbuck had fatigue whike skating in our system and a lower body injury. I'm also an idiot.
No harm done.

CdH looks a hell of a lotter cooler too.

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01-09-2014, 11:38 PM
  #122
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CdH, I like it. I've always been a CDH guy myself.

Looking back, the Isles made a pretty good decision in drafting him. His skillset compares favorably to Dan Hamhuis IMO and if he can come anywhere near that, I'll be psyched.

It's always best to be cautious with the praise, but he looks legit. His skating is just so smooth and he's so smart and composed out there. He doesn't repeat mistakes and doesn't seem to get rattled either. His level of physical play has been really surprising and he's got a good stick. Because of his hockey sense, I don't see him falling apart. He stays healthy, he's a long time top-4 for us with Hamonic.

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01-09-2014, 11:42 PM
  #123
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Most young defensemen take longer to develop. Both physically and mentally. Remember how much Tavares got pushed around his first couple of seasons? You can somewhat get away with it a forward but absolutely cannot on defense. Also mistakes by a forward can be covered up for by the oter forwards, defense and the goalie, the defensemen makes a mistake and unless the goalie bails you out it's in the net. I like what I see from CDH and hope he continues to improve and become a top pairing Dman. Then, and maybe then, we will never have to hear all the critics on these boards chirp about all the picks that were spent to move up and get him.
Came to post this.

Remember: the 5 best forward on a team is a top-6 player, but a bottom-pairing defensemen. The 7th best forward on a team is a third-liner, the 7th best defensemen on a team is out of the NHL.

It almost always takes longer for defensemen to develop for many reason. They need to grow into their adult bodies (these are 18 year old kids they're drafting mind you), they need to cut down on mistakes-mistakes from D are much more costly than from forwards.

I'm hard on Snow's drafting, and hard on prospects (I think most of the time posters on here just want prospects to play because they're young), but Calvin's been pretty good so far. Not amazing, not a 1st pairing on most teams, BUT he's done well.

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01-10-2014, 12:14 AM
  #124
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Never said I wasn't impressed, and I said he played pretty well. Not gonna say he's been great or awesome, because in reality he hasn't. He's been pretty good and impressive. No crow eating here, you guys act like he's the next coming of Kenny Jonsson. I'm saying, let's wait and see. He's a rookie defenseman who seems very pretty heady out there. Seems very calm, YET, I've seen some glaring mistakes and I see a -8 defenseman. I know +/- isn't everything, but it does matter, it does mean something. If I see him on the allrookie team at the end of the year, then I'll have my portion of crow parmigiana.
Shea Weber is a -12 or something like that. You look too deep into numbers and not enough on what happens on the ice. Get on the CdH bandwagon, Scott. Plenty of room!

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01-10-2014, 06:19 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Poliz24 View Post
Im really happy to see CdH playing well. But why didn't he start the year on LI? Did he need the extra month or 2 in the AHL to get his legs under him? Was it a coaching mistake? I am going to assume Donovan looked better then him in camp? I feel as if, had he been playing here for the first game of the year, we might be better defensively had he started from day 1. Just my opinion. It is just sad to notice that every now and again we see guys come up from BP, surprise us with their play and my speculation of the good play would be the guys coming up with no pressure since we don't want to show up and play any games in November. It seemed as though as Cdh started to pick up his play, the team started to not stink as much. I am not saying Cdh is the reason we started to play better, but who knows maybe the guys in the room started to wake up after slumbering through Nov and half of December.
De Haan started off slowly in the ahl. Wasn't good at the start of the season. He was a big part of the turnaround bridgeport experienced in december(?). He had some great shifts shorthanded in 5 vs 3 situations.

He earned his promotion, like donovan did. He just made more out of it.

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