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Old
01-10-2014, 06:27 AM
  #126
mitchy22
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CdH's game has been fairly simple since he has been up with us. He's concentrating on getting the puck out of his zone and up the ice. When you're not scoring, your +/- numbers reflect that. You don't get a "+" for clearing the zone and getting off the ice. You don't get a "+" for getting your team out of a difficult situation and then being on the bench during an offensive zone faceoff; it also holds back those player's offensive stats.

One of the things that has maddened me about our questionable coaching decisions is how rare it is for our best five players to be on the ice when we get a start in the offensive zone.

Since I was going simply off of my recollection, I figured I'd find a site with some stats. CdH gets the least amount of offensive zone starts as a percentage than all of our d-men with Hamonic having the second least percentage of offensive zone starts; those numbers back up what my mind has tracked all season. Mind you, this also has a lot to do with saving our best defenders for the defensive zone, but I think you hold back the team when you don't pick enough spots to ice your five best players in the offensive zone.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...1+62+64+65+66#

CdH has an offensive zone start time percentage of 44%. That's the lowest among our d-men.

Looking at the so-called advanced stats, you can also see how well Brian Strait has played for us since his return. I thought his occasional brain fart and average enough physical frame (for a d-man) were the things holding him back, but he hasn't shown the brain farts this season. (I hope I didn't just jinx him.) I have to remind myself that Strait hasn't exactly played a ton of NHL games, so it isn't outside the realm of possibility that he improves on his previous shortcomings. Regardless, Strait was still a better option than any of the guys playing instead of him when he was out; Strait's return and CdH jumping right into top minutes are a big part of why this team has started to put up points.

The sample size is iffy and there are other variables, but we let in 90 goals in 26 games before CdH arrived on the roster for a GAA of 3.45. (I'm going by games, not 60 minutes played. The goals also include shootout winners and losses, but I don't feel like spending that much time on the stats this morning. These numbers should be a very close approximation of on-ice play.) After CdH's arrival, we've let up 59 goals against in his 19 games played for a 3.11 GAA. The mental hiccups that have remained aside, the team has shown improved play overall in this time. CdH's arrival also greatly overlaps with Strait's return.

Pre-CdH GAA: 3.46
With CdH GAA: 3.11


(I'd welcome anyone going in and checking my math as I did this while I was still drinking my morning coffee. Checked my own math and was off by one goal which actually made the numbers better for CdH.)

Also, while I've been browsing stats this morning, I do have to give AMac credit for getting more shots to the net and the resulting offense that has come of it. However, Hickey is just as good at 5-on-5 offense and it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out AMac's shortcomings on the PP or at ES. If our current replacement options weren't so bad, it'd be good asset management to trade AMac at this point. I don't think he'll ever have a much better offensive season, and people seem to love looking at the blocked shot numbers even though our PK has been terrible and it's obvious that AMac spends a lot of time in the defensive zone. I'd also like AMac a lot more at 16 minutes/night instead of 25 minutes/night, but I've digressed enough.

Edit - I've bolded some of the stats in case people can't get through the rest of the wall of text.

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Mitch


Last edited by mitchy22: 01-10-2014 at 06:40 AM. Reason: some final edits
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01-10-2014, 07:10 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by mitchy22 View Post
CdH's game has been fairly simple since he has been up with us. He's concentrating on getting the puck out of his zone and up the ice. When you're not scoring, your +/- numbers reflect that. You don't get a "+" for clearing the zone and getting off the ice. You don't get a "+" for getting your team out of a difficult situation and then being on the bench during an offensive zone faceoff; it also holds back those player's offensive stats.

One of the things that has maddened me about our questionable coaching decisions is how rare it is for our best five players to be on the ice when we get a start in the offensive zone.

Since I was going simply off of my recollection, I figured I'd find a site with some stats. CdH gets the least amount of offensive zone starts as a percentage than all of our d-men with Hamonic having the second least percentage of offensive zone starts; those numbers back up what my mind has tracked all season. Mind you, this also has a lot to do with saving our best defenders for the defensive zone, but I think you hold back the team when you don't pick enough spots to ice your five best players in the offensive zone.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...1+62+64+65+66#

CdH has an offensive zone start time percentage of 44%. That's the lowest among our d-men.

Looking at the so-called advanced stats, you can also see how well Brian Strait has played for us since his return. I thought his occasional brain fart and average enough physical frame (for a d-man) were the things holding him back, but he hasn't shown the brain farts this season. (I hope I didn't just jinx him.) I have to remind myself that Strait hasn't exactly played a ton of NHL games, so it isn't outside the realm of possibility that he improves on his previous shortcomings. Regardless, Strait was still a better option than any of the guys playing instead of him when he was out; Strait's return and CdH jumping right into top minutes are a big part of why this team has started to put up points.

The sample size is iffy and there are other variables, but we let in 90 goals in 26 games before CdH arrived on the roster for a GAA of 3.45. (I'm going by games, not 60 minutes played. The goals also include shootout winners and losses, but I don't feel like spending that much time on the stats this morning. These numbers should be a very close approximation of on-ice play.) After CdH's arrival, we've let up 59 goals against in his 19 games played for a 3.11 GAA. The mental hiccups that have remained aside, the team has shown improved play overall in this time. CdH's arrival also greatly overlaps with Strait's return.

Pre-CdH GAA: 3.46
With CdH GAA: 3.11


(I'd welcome anyone going in and checking my math as I did this while I was still drinking my morning coffee. Checked my own math and was off by one goal which actually made the numbers better for CdH.)

Also, while I've been browsing stats this morning, I do have to give AMac credit for getting more shots to the net and the resulting offense that has come of it. However, Hickey is just as good at 5-on-5 offense and it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out AMac's shortcomings on the PP or at ES. If our current replacement options weren't so bad, it'd be good asset management to trade AMac at this point. I don't think he'll ever have a much better offensive season, and people seem to love looking at the blocked shot numbers even though our PK has been terrible and it's obvious that AMac spends a lot of time in the defensive zone. I'd also like AMac a lot more at 16 minutes/night instead of 25 minutes/night, but I've digressed enough.

Edit - I've bolded some of the stats in case people can't get through the rest of the wall of text.

,
Mitch
Fans on here don't give Strait the credit he deserves. He obviously doesn't have the upside of a DeHaan but he's getting bottom pairing money for the next three years so anything more than that is a gift and we got him without giving up anything. He's also looked much better since he came off IR which leads me to believe that the injury was bothering him to start the season. Just as Amac was for the past 3 seasons, a bargain, it's time to let him go if the money gets crazy.

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01-10-2014, 08:20 AM
  #128
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Fans on here don't give Strait the credit he deserves. He obviously doesn't have the upside of a DeHaan but he's getting bottom pairing money for the next three years so anything more than that is a gift and we got him without giving up anything. He's also looked much better since he came off IR which leads me to believe that the injury was bothering him to start the season. Just as Amac was for the past 3 seasons, a bargain, it's time to let him go if the money gets crazy.
I don't want either player on the top pairing, but I'd take Strait over AMac on the 2nd or 3rd pair at this point. Strait's issues for me were also coughing up the puck unnecessarily like AMac, but I don't recall any egregious errors from Strait this season. I also think Strait has played better under pressure, but we do have to consider the increased role that AMac has been forced into when assessing this. Strait plays more physical and is a better skater than AMac though AMac has the longer reach.

It's a small sample size though, so I'm not going to knight Brian Strait just yet, but he's part of the improved play of late. Strait is actually paid like a #7 and has shown he can play at least on the bottom pairing (or 2nd pairing) in the NHL. I'm all for keeping him even if more physically impressive rookies eventually push him into that #7 slot when we eventually have some help and a real payroll. For now, Strait has been quite solid in his 16 minutes/night and could even stay there if nobody else pushes him off in the future.

With Vis injured and Donovan, Ness, and Carkner being so underwhelming, I'd be hard pressed to trade AMac until the deadline. If Vis returns and we're not in the playoff hunt, or if some team offers us a first rounder and we're anywhere on the outside looking in, then I think you move AMac. If we're on the inside looking up, then I don't move AMac with the injury history we've had; it sends a bad message, and our prospect pool is rather deep as it is. Also, and I don't think this gets mentioned enough, the 1st rounders in the Vanek trade gets deferred if it's a top-10 pick. We have some built-in protection for the upcoming draft if the team slips.

Even if it's getting ahead of ourselves, and we thankfully have some time before the deadline, I think you closely monitor offers for AMac along with Visnovsky's health and thoughts on his NHL future.

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Mitch

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01-10-2014, 01:14 PM
  #129
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http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey...pect-1.6769295


DENVER - "Entering training camp, it was easy to forget that not too long ago, Calvin de Haan was at the head of the class when it came to Islanders defense prospects.

Garth Snow moved up the draft board twice in 2009 to select de Haan 12th overall. The big catch that day in Montreal was John Tavares at No. 1, of course, but de Haan, who played with Tavares for Oshawa in the Ontario League, was the sort of unflashy, rock-solid defenseman who could become a steady lineup presence for years."

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01-10-2014, 03:30 PM
  #130
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I loved the de Haan pick when it wad made. I know a lot of people weren't thrilled. Then players like Kulikov started to show promise early while Calvin struggled with injury- next thing you know fans turned on Calvin.

I feel like all of a sudden the trend for smaller puck moving defenders had passed and fans thought Snow missed on Calvin. However, as we are seeing Calvin is much more than a small puck mover. The kid is SOUND in his own zone and offers so much. Glad fans are coming around and seeing that.

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01-11-2014, 08:28 AM
  #131
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CdH with another strong game against the Avs. Team high 7 hits and handling 20+ minutes very well with no PP time. The 'de-monic' pairing is looking better and better.

Saw de-monic on LHH, awesome nickname for them.

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01-11-2014, 08:46 AM
  #132
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im liking him more and more every time i see him play.

de haan and hamonic are the de-monic duo so far......

( now de haan will slip on a banana peel and break an ankle or something stupid.......im the kiss of death man....... once i start liking you, HA...your career is over.....thats why ill always hate tavares....)

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01-11-2014, 09:02 AM
  #133
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What is impressive about CdH is that he has missed most of his development time.
In his final ELC season, Calvin has played a grand total of 79 pro games in the 3 years, including 20 in the NHL. He has impressed me a lot lately as he has continued to grow and develop, learn from his mistakes and watching (meetings???).
At first his just mediocre but steadier play made him look excellent when compared to what Ness, AMac, and Carkner were offering. Now it is past just being better than garbage, he is actually very effective and just getting better, now even contributing a few points as well. CdH may be a real gem for us.

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01-11-2014, 09:02 AM
  #134
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im liking him more and more every time i see him play.

de haan and hamonic are the de-monic duo so far......

( now de haan will slip on a banana peel and break an ankle or something stupid.......im the kiss of death man....... once i start liking you, HA...your career is over.....thats why ill always hate tavares....)
Were you in love with dipietro?

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01-11-2014, 09:19 AM
  #135
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It's his mission to make sure the puck gets out if the defensive zone. I love that about him. No BS he just makes sure the puck gets away from out goalie and finds its way up ice. So impressed with Calvin. I really hope he countinues to get better and develope into more of what we have seen from him.

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01-11-2014, 10:06 AM
  #136
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CdH with another strong game against the Avs. Team high 7 hits and handling 20+ minutes very well with no PP time. The 'de-monic' pairing is looking better and better.

Saw de-monic on LHH, awesome nickname for them.
Love it! Love the pairing, too. Hammer has played so much better since he was paired with de Haan. Less puck moving responsibility for Travis means a focus on the defensive game that he excels at.

The jersey collector in me is getting excited. Too bad I am already having Cizikas stitched onto my SS jersey. I still love Casey, but de Haan is quickly becoming my 3rd favorite player on the team. A jersey purchase may have to happen this year. Will wait to see if he switches to #24 next season.

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01-11-2014, 10:41 AM
  #137
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What is impressive about CdH is that he has missed most of his development time.
In his final ELC season, Calvin has played a grand total of 79 pro games in the 3 years, including 20 in the NHL. He has impressed me a lot lately as he has continued to grow and develop, learn from his mistakes and watching (meetings???).
At first his just mediocre but steadier play made him look excellent when compared to what Ness, AMac, and Carkner were offering. Now it is past just being better than garbage, he is actually very effective and just getting better, now even contributing a few points as well. CdH may be a real gem for us.
I want to be cautious too, but his ability to adjust and learn from mistakes is just so impressive. Take away the injuries and CdH was always a high end prospect. He made MDZ expendable in Oshawa in his rookie season, made Team Canada WJC TWICE after being drafted, was the Captain of Oshawa in his final OHL season. That's an impressive Junior resume for any d-man. He's showing he is legit.

Long live DE-MONIC!

Interesting reading the CdH Prospect thread: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...ht=calvin+haan

Interesting interview from a while back, hello again Calvin de Haan...



Last edited by PWJunior: 01-11-2014 at 11:17 AM. Reason: added content
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01-11-2014, 11:26 AM
  #138
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What is impressive about CdH is that he has missed most of his development time.
In his final ELC season, Calvin has played a grand total of 79 pro games in the 3 years, including 20 in the NHL. He has impressed me a lot lately as he has continued to grow and develop, learn from his mistakes and watching (meetings???).
At first his just mediocre but steadier play made him look excellent when compared to what Ness, AMac, and Carkner were offering. Now it is past just being better than garbage, he is actually very effective and just getting better, now even contributing a few points as well. CdH may be a real gem for us.
The answer for that is simple, he was NHL ready long before the injury bug took hold. It's why he damn near made the team as a 19 year old.

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01-11-2014, 11:46 AM
  #139
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The answer for that is simple, he was NHL ready long before the injury bug took hold. It's why he damn near made the team as a 19 year old.
His body definitely wasn't NHL ready until now. The talent and intelligence was always there though.

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01-11-2014, 01:48 PM
  #140
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His body definitely wasn't NHL ready until now. The talent and intelligence was always there though.
Pleasantly surprised how strong Calvin has played. Maybe he sneaked in some workouts with JT.

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01-11-2014, 02:03 PM
  #141
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His body definitely wasn't NHL ready until now. The talent and intelligence was always there though.
He's currently about 20lbs heavier than his rookie year in the OHL. Maybe 5-10lbs heavier than he was his first rookie camp. His size was never the problem anyway though.

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01-11-2014, 03:57 PM
  #142
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The kid has been playing very well.

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01-11-2014, 06:46 PM
  #143
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Absolutely love what I've seen from him so far...seems to make the smart play almost every single time. As time passes, I think we will see his offensive ability become a more prominent aspect of his game. I never had any doubt in his ability...only thing that worries me is his ability to stay healthy. If he can, he's a top 4 guy for sure.

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01-11-2014, 07:26 PM
  #144
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Absolutely love what I've seen from him so far...seems to make the smart play almost every single time. As time passes, I think we will see his offensive ability become a more prominent aspect of his game. I never had any doubt in his ability...only thing that worries me is his ability to stay healthy. If he can, he's a top 4 guy for sure.
I look at it as making the better play most times. How often have we watched our better defense men just dump the puck when a second of looking around would have shown a passing lane, vs just turning the puck over on the safe clear? He consistently takes that extra look, which translates directly into keeping the puck longer, more zone entries, etc.

What is kind of sad is that Donovan gets blwn up when you compare the two. Talk about an unlucky act to follow.

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01-11-2014, 08:26 PM
  #145
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I look at it as making the better play most times. How often have we watched our better defense men just dump the puck when a second of looking around would have shown a passing lane, vs just turning the puck over on the safe clear? He consistently takes that extra look, which translates directly into keeping the puck longer, more zone entries, etc.

What is kind of sad is that Donovan gets blwn up when you compare the two. Talk about an unlucky act to follow.
Donovan just isn't that good right now. Way too many mistakes, he has zero confidence, and it's clear (to me) that his game is not translating well to the NHL. We are getting spoiled with young defenseman maturing and stepping in for us (Macdonald, Hamonic, and now DeHaan).

Donovan is going to find himself on the outside looking in, and early on, Donovan looks a bit Campoli like.

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01-11-2014, 08:36 PM
  #146
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I want to be cautious too, but his ability to adjust and learn from mistakes is just so impressive. Take away the injuries and CdH was always a high end prospect. He made MDZ expendable in Oshawa in his rookie season, made Team Canada WJC TWICE after being drafted, was the Captain of Oshawa in his final OHL season. That's an impressive Junior resume for any d-man. He's showing he is legit.

Long live DE-MONIC!

Interesting reading the CdH Prospect thread: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...ht=calvin+haan

Interesting interview from a while back, hello again Calvin de Haan...


Lol...did John Tavares ever ask for you to get him coffee? In juniors...lol

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01-11-2014, 08:44 PM
  #147
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Donovan just isn't that good right now. Way too many mistakes, he has zero confidence, and it's clear (to me) that his game is not translating well to the NHL. We are getting spoiled with young defenseman maturing and stepping in for us (Macdonald, Hamonic, and now DeHaan).

Donovan is going to find himself on the outside looking in, and early on, Donovan looks a bit Campoli like.
I agree with you on Donovan and made the same Campoli comparison in another thread. Dehaan on the other hand looks like so smooth out there. Kid has hockey smarts somthing Donovan does not have.

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01-11-2014, 09:08 PM
  #148
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I agree with you on Donovan and made the same Campoli comparison in another thread. Dehaan on the other hand looks like so smooth out there. Kid has hockey smarts somthing Donovan does not have.
i would not say that Donovan does not have the smarts. he's had it everywhere but in the NHL. it is obvious that he is panicking, and making poor choices, but i don't think this is his nature. he just needs time and confidence, IMO.

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01-11-2014, 09:23 PM
  #149
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He reminds me of Kimmo Timonen.

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01-12-2014, 12:56 AM
  #150
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CdH with another strong game against the Avs. Team high 7 hits and handling 20+ minutes very well with no PP time. The 'de-monic' pairing is looking better and better.

Saw de-monic on LHH, awesome nickname for them.
deMONIC!

love it

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