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Blade cut too shallow?

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12-06-2013, 01:51 PM
  #1
ccarrigan
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Blade cut too shallow?

I've been playing ice hockey for about 2.5 years now and I've recently been working on finding the best cut for me. I'm 5'11" and about 245, and found that 1/2" was just too deep for me. I went to 5/8" and then to 3/4" and I still feel like I could go a bit shallower (my skates don't go out from under me, even on sharp cuts). However I've seen charts of what people use and rarely 1", but I'm pretty heavy. Is 1" too shallow?

I feel like I see a lot of people able to pivot and slide on their edges a lot smoother and further than I can and my stops are really sharp with no real glide.

Thanks!

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12-06-2013, 02:22 PM
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Jarick
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Have you tried FBV sharpening? It feels shallower when gliding but has smaller sharp edges for stops and turns. I really like it. Was at 11/16" before and now at 90/75 FBV.

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12-06-2013, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Have you tried FBV sharpening? It feels shallower when gliding but has smaller sharp edges for stops and turns. I really like it. Was at 11/16" before and now at 90/75 FBV.
I've seen it mentioned here but I don't think we have anyone here in Columbus that does it. Maybe our college rink does, but it's hard to get a cut in the summer there. Did you notice a big improvement?

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12-06-2013, 02:57 PM
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Jarick
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It's hard to remember how much, but I did notice an improvement. Other big thing was that I felt like the edges were easier to find and that my sharpenings lasted longer.

Otherwise, try 7/8". There's NHL'ers that use 1"+.

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12-06-2013, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccarrigan View Post
I've seen it mentioned here but I don't think we have anyone here in Columbus that does it. Maybe our college rink does, but it's hard to get a cut in the summer there. Did you notice a big improvement?
I am skating on the same 90/75 as Jarick and switched from a 5/8" personally. It is a very big improvement, or was for me. They glide significantly better while still giving you a crisp edge for turns if needed. The sharpening is also more durable, so you need a sharpening less often.

In case you do not find any place to sharpen your skates locally (which it looks like), I can wholeheartedly recommend http://www.noicingsports.com to get a mail-in sharpening. They do elite level work.

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12-06-2013, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
It's hard to remember how much, but I did notice an improvement. Other big thing was that I felt like the edges were easier to find and that my sharpenings lasted longer.

Otherwise, try 7/8". There's NHL'ers that use 1"+.
I might try 7/8", that's a good in between. I was trying not to mention NHL'ers because I'm certainly not one, so there's no comparison there.

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12-06-2013, 04:23 PM
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sanityplease
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Profile radius is a factor as well. Try getting your blades profiled to an 11'. If you're skating on something like a 9' now, it will make a big difference. Soft ice can also cause your blades to really dig.

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12-06-2013, 04:48 PM
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AIREAYE
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Profile radius is a factor as well. Try getting your blades profiled to an 11'. If you're skating on something like a 9' now, it will make a big difference. Soft ice can also cause your blades to really dig.
Great point and definite possibility, having a larger radius will provide more blade contact and thus more bite from having more steel and edges on the ice at any given time. Thus any ROH will feel 'sharper' the higher the radius of the steel gets and vice versa

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12-06-2013, 07:39 PM
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I was skating on a 3/8ths hollow and just by getting the the pivot point of my blade moved back ( unless they increased my radius as well, but I asked them but to change it) increased my blade contract enough that I'm liking skating with a 1/2" hollow.

If I were you, I wouldn't be afraid to try a 7/8ths, or even a 1", but I enjoy experimenting to see if there's something I'd like better.

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12-06-2013, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by AIREAYE View Post
Great point and definite possibility, having a larger radius will provide more blade contact and thus more bite from having more steel and edges on the ice at any given time. Thus any ROH will feel 'sharper' the higher the radius of the steel gets and vice versa
I never thought of that. I currently use CCM U+10s, does anyone know the radius they have standard? A quick search says maybe 10', so maybe a 9' would give me less of a dig in to the ice?

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12-06-2013, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccarrigan View Post
I've been playing ice hockey for about 2.5 years now and I've recently been working on finding the best cut for me. I'm 5'11" and about 245, and found that 1/2" was just too deep for me. I went to 5/8" and then to 3/4" and I still feel like I could go a bit shallower (my skates don't go out from under me, even on sharp cuts). However I've seen charts of what people use and rarely 1", but I'm pretty heavy. Is 1" too shallow?

I feel like I see a lot of people able to pivot and slide on their edges a lot smoother and further than I can and my stops are really sharp with no real glide.

Thanks!
To be straight with you, it just sounds like you having issues with edge control.

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12-06-2013, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by CarpeNoctem View Post
To be straight with you, it just sounds like you having issues with edge control.
I'd like to agree. I just feel like I've been playing for a while, and my turns and stops seem fine except they seem to cut in too much. But I'm not sure how to differentiate?

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12-06-2013, 11:57 PM
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I apologize if this sounds bad but at 5'11 245 lbs, it's probably hard to really get the good knee bend necessary for proper deep edge work. Have you had someone evaluate your edging technique?

Outer edge technique done properly on a 7/8ths hollow requires you to bend those knees a ton.

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12-07-2013, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AIREAYE View Post
Great point and definite possibility, having a larger radius will provide more blade contact and thus more bite from having more steel and edges on the ice at any given time. Thus any ROH will feel 'sharper' the higher the radius of the steel gets and vice versa
A larger radius will provide more blade contact...therefore less pressure per contact area...therefore less bite

Put another way a smaller radius will dig deeper into the ice

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12-07-2013, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Crosbyfan View Post
A larger radius will provide more blade contact...therefore less pressure per contact area...therefore less bite

Put another way a smaller radius will dig deeper into the ice
Are you talking about profile radius? Or hollow radius? It seems like you're talking about profile radius, but wouldn't a 9' radius have less ice contact and therefore dig in less?

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12-07-2013, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpeNoctem View Post
I apologize if this sounds bad but at 5'11 245 lbs, it's probably hard to really get the good knee bend necessary for proper deep edge work. Have you had someone evaluate your edging technique?

Outer edge technique done properly on a 7/8ths hollow requires you to bend those knees a ton.
I have good knee bend. I'm not 245 of complete fat, ha!

For instance, in this video of outside edge stops, my skates dig in too much for those. He doesn't have super knee bend, it looks more like a combo of proper radius and strength.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3ygHmjMgCA

(EDIT: this also happens on the inside edges, video was just the first example i found)


Last edited by ccarrigan: 12-07-2013 at 02:13 PM.
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12-07-2013, 04:31 PM
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I think you're just putting too much pressure on the wrong part of your foot/blade. Happens if I haven't skated in a while to me too.

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12-09-2013, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccarrigan View Post
Are you talking about profile radius? Or hollow radius? It seems like you're talking about profile radius, but wouldn't a 9' radius have less ice contact and therefore dig in less?
With a longer profile radius, there is more steel on the ice and therefore the weight is distributed across a longer distance and therefore puts less pressure on the ice, therefore causing it to cut in less.

A shorter radius, puts more pressure on the steel in contact with the ice and will therefore cut in more.

That is why snow shoes allow someone to walk on top of the snow and regular boots sink right in. The larger area of the snow shoe puts less pressure per square inch on the snow and sits on top of it.

To the OP, just try a shallower hollow and see if you like it. Messier skated on an inch ROH and was pretty good. As long as you have enough edge to play your game, there is no disadvantage to go shallower.

I generally recommend to people experimenting to just keep going shallower in small steps until you dont feel you have enough bite, then go back sharper one setting. That is what is optimal for you.

Good luck.

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12-09-2013, 09:44 AM
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AIREAYE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosbyfan View Post
A larger radius will provide more blade contact...therefore less pressure per contact area...therefore less bite

Put another way a smaller radius will dig deeper into the ice
Yeah you're right, I mixed it up.

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12-09-2013, 10:05 AM
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Yeah, I would definitely try the 7/8" hollow. Worst case scenario, it's too shallow and you don't get enough bit and then drop down to 5/8" or 13/16" or something.

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12-09-2013, 10:06 AM
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OP. You stated that you've been trying different ROH's. A blade will tend to get more 'rockered' after many sharpenings & depending on the sharpener technician (I re-profile once or twice a year). Your skates might have started out as a rough factory 10' profile, but could now be an 8' or less. A low profile radius # digs more than a high one. I'd definitely get a profile job done. IMHO, an 11' w/ neutral pitch & a 5/8" ROH would be a good starting point.

Another possibility is that the sharpener isn't actually giving you a 5/8" or 3/4" cut. Watch to see if they are dressing the wheel properly.

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12-09-2013, 10:12 AM
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It's worth trying a different profile (especially blade radius) if you haven't before and you aren't happy with your edges...but for me I was a complete disaster when i went from 9' to 11'. BUT it's not too difficult to go back if you don't like it, just wastes a bit of steel.

FWIW, I'm almost on my fourth year with my original steel on my Grafs and that's including a couple profilings. Granted I only get them sharpened every couple months, but hey. Most guys I know seem to get a few years out of the steel playing once a week.

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12-09-2013, 11:42 AM
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Awesome, thanks everyone, I'm going to try a 7/8" cut and maybe try noicing for a profile.

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