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AV is The Bubblegum Man - can he chew it?

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Old
12-09-2013, 12:24 AM
  #1
BBKers
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AV is The Bubblegum Man - can he chew it?

Still seen too small of a sample size of AV to be 100% sure
Have heard a lot of negatives of his tenure in Vancouver from players there
Some really nasty things but they really mean nothing right now
And fans --- well there is plenty to say both ways
We all know the real problem lies further up the food chain as in Sather and ultimately Dolan but...
Is AV the right man to coach this team?
Does he have the right mentality?
Does he match the right lines?
How is his in game coaching?
How is his defensive system (considering our D the last years) being utilized?
Does he give up in games too easily?
Is he tough enough`?
Does he love the game?
What is "AV hockey" in his book if he were to describe it in less than 50 letters?
Is his system a possible winner here in NYC (especially with this team)?
If not, can he or will he change it?
Or is he a "my way or the highway" kinda guy?
Did he hire the right assistants?
Did he have any input on the players brought in?
Does he want bring in some new players to patch things up or do something more drastic to the roster?
What are his real feelings about the Home grown, "veteran" cores play (Callahan, Staal, Girardi, Lundqvist) so far?
What about the mercenaries (Nash & Richards) that are both making top $ in the league but neither are playing close to superstar status - both are making over 100.000 per point in an 82 game season which is extremely high in the league btw - can his coaching and/or system bring out more from these two to make their high cap investment more feasible?
Can he tell us whar flavour is best to chew at least?

BTW - Hated Torts so this is no "Let´s bring back The Psychopath thread" in any way. Just wondering if AV is the right guy for NYC and this team. Got an uncomfortable feeling he is not...

Go at it!

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Old
12-09-2013, 12:28 AM
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Puckface NYR*
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I'm sick of Pyatt.

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12-09-2013, 12:31 AM
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Even if AV winds up being the worst head coach in NYR history at some point you have to look at the guy hiring the coaches. How many coaches has Sather gone through in 13 years? 4 or 5? I'm not even including when he coached the team himself! There has been TWO constants with this team the last decade, the owner and the GM.

Bad coaching hirings, horrible free agent signings, bust draft picks during hugely important rebuilding years. Yeah it's got to be the new coaches fault!

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Old
12-09-2013, 12:32 AM
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Rust Heisenberg
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He's not the right guy.

Laviolette or Weight.

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12-09-2013, 12:32 AM
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Lester Patrick couldn't coach these guys.

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12-09-2013, 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
He's not the right guy.

Laviolette or Weight.
Lavi would have been awesome in NYC

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12-09-2013, 01:47 AM
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Barbara Underhill
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Surprised people still think it's a coaching problem...

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Old
12-09-2013, 01:59 AM
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You have to be fair and look at the roster that is constructed here. AV is a winning coach and has a successful system (as we've seen in all his years of success in Vancouver). Some of the players here are here because of how well suited they were to Tort's style of play (Callahan, Girardi etc have thrived) whereas some players have shined brighter under AV (Richards, McD, Zucc, Kreider for example). I think pulling the plug on a coach 31 games into his tenure is a bit rash, there have been games where the team has played extremely well and there are times where the team hasn't shown up. I'm sure some players are still learning the system and there will be more bumps in the road, so have a little patience. The team does have a bit of trouble forming an identity but we are still only 1/3 the way into the tenure of a new coach. Give him some time with management to build a roster that plays to the strengths of how he wants to play hockey.

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Old
12-09-2013, 02:25 AM
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Nac Mac Feegle
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Just get him to stop chewing that damned gum like a madman.

AV deserves at least a full season to get his system in place, and hopefully a trade or two to bring in a few guys who can align themselves a bit better with what he's implementing. He deserves that much, at the very least.

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12-09-2013, 02:32 AM
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I much prefer his style of hockey to Tort's and find it much more representative of teams who have consistent success. Of course, we don't have the personnel to really get the most out of that system. Going from Torts to AV is going from one side of the spectrum to the other.

Torts is great for getting the best out of less skilled guys but he kind of brings down skilled guys by making them play against their strength.

AV gets more out of his skilled guys but makes grind-it-out forwards and tough-nosed defenseman near useless.

In the end, I think AV is going to give you a top 5 team in the league if you can provide him the type of talent he needs. He'll struggle with a roster like our current one. But once he has the right team, we'll score more and be a fun team to watch... it's just going to take a few years of working the roster.

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12-09-2013, 02:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Callahan Auto View Post
I much prefer his style of hockey to Tort's and find it much more representative of teams who have consistent success. Of course, we don't have the personnel to really get the most out of that system. Going from Torts to AV is going from one side of the spectrum to the other.

Torts is great for getting the best out of less skilled guys but he kind of brings down skilled guys by making them play against their strength.

AV gets more out of his skilled guys but makes grind-it-out forwards and tough-nosed defenseman near useless.
I agree with this, but we still must get it done on the ice.

So far I think the jury is still out on AV. I think we are heading in the right direction in many areas. But its bumpy. Is it because the team is getting the wrong directions in some areas or other reasons? Hard to tell right now.

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12-09-2013, 03:11 AM
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A couple of trades made for HIS system will add some pieces to the puzzle. I completely agree with the post right above here. You don't have to be a NHL coach to see that the grinders will find it hard to adapt to a 'playing' (skilled) system. It's like asking Shaquille O'Neal to join the Harlem Globetrotters.

Even if it takes us a season or two to adapt.... So be it. We have to stop thinking that it is possible with a quick-fix and rush to success. It's impossible ....

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Old
12-09-2013, 03:11 AM
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It all comes down to one man: Señor Sather

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12-09-2013, 03:13 AM
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My personal opinion is that there are some guys who are good hockey players on our roster that just don't fit our team.

Defense-wise, Staal and Girardi are great lockdown defenders but they're finished products and I don't think you'll see them completely adapt to this system. We need defenders that can pass and skate, those aren't where Staal and Girardi excel. McDonagh, on the other hand, looks like he's going to benefit tremendously from this new system. He might go from a great defenseman to elite defenseman. Stralman fits as well and should be a quality 2nd pairing RHD at the very least. MDZ and Moore can go either way but the difference between them and Staal/Girardi is that they're young and will be given time to grow into being the type of defenseman this system requires.

As far as our forwards, a lot of guys could work out. Stepan, Kreider, Nash, and Zukes have done well. Richards looks good on the wing in this type of team but he'll probably be bought out because of his contract. Hagelin should fit because of his speed and Brassard might as a good 3rd center if we can give him some scorers to play with. Callahan, Boyle, and (to a lesser extent) D. Moore and Dorsett are good hockey players but I don't like them on this type of team. Pyatt and Pouliot serve no purpose.

If you move Girardi, Callahan, Boyle, and Staal, you can bring back at least two quality pieces to help this team in the future (top 4 RHD and top 6 center, hopefully). You can fill out the rest of the roster with young guys and let them grow into this type of style of player.

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Old
12-09-2013, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Callahan Auto View Post
My personal opinion is that there are some guys who are good hockey players on our roster that just don't fit our team.

Defense-wise, Staal and Girardi are great lockdown defenders but they're finished products and I don't think you'll see them completely adapt to this system. We need defenders that can pass and skate, those aren't where Staal and Girardi excel. McDonagh, on the other hand, looks like he's going to benefit tremendously from this new system. He might go from a great defenseman to elite defenseman. Stralman fits as well and should be a quality 2nd pairing RHD at the very least. MDZ and Moore can go either way but the difference between them and Staal/Girardi is that they're young and will be given time to grow into being the type of defenseman this system requires.

As far as our forwards, a lot of guys could work out. Stepan, Kreider, Nash, and Zukes have done well. Richards looks good on the wing in this type of team but he'll probably be bought out because of his contract. Hagelin should fit because of his speed and Brassard might as a good 3rd center if we can give him some scorers to play with. Callahan, Boyle, and (to a lesser extent) D. Moore and Dorsett are good hockey players but I don't like them on this type of team. Pyatt and Pouliot serve no purpose.

If you move Girardi, Callahan, Boyle, and Staal, you can bring back at least two quality pieces to help this team in the future (top 4 RHD and top 6 center, hopefully). You can fill out the rest of the roster with young guys and let them grow into this type of style of player.
You make it seem like every NHL team's defensive core is made up entirely of guys that are amazing skaters. You also make it seem like Staal and Girardi are slugs when they're not. They're not the fastest but they're not the slowest. They're average skaters which every team in the NHL has at defense. You NEED a couple of those solid shut-down guys. I think Girardi has been great this season. It's Staal who has been surprisingly bad.

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12-09-2013, 06:13 AM
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Surprised people still think it's a coaching problem...
agreed.

There's a gaping hole in the chest cavity and a significant lack of talent in the bottom 6 as well as no offensive defenceman

but it's AV for sure.

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Old
12-09-2013, 07:10 AM
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JHS
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AC coaches what's put on the bench for him- not by him. You, me, anyone really, clearly can't win with this group as currently constructed. Actually, Torts could win, and did win be he got the boot for loosing the team( apparently).

It's funny that the team still looks "lost."

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12-09-2013, 07:30 AM
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AV has ripped the team in the media. He isn't a soft coach. People are in love with Tortorella over one season. The other seasons look like this one. Fight for playoff spot. Get a lower seed.

The players held a meeting after the game last night. AV wasn't impressed. All these players do is talk.

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12-09-2013, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
agreed.

There's a gaping hole in the chest cavity and a significant lack of talent in the bottom 6 as well as no offensive defenceman

but it's AV for sure.
Lets be honest, our bottom 6 is more talented than its been in a few years.

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12-09-2013, 07:48 AM
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AV has ripped the team in the media. He isn't a soft coach. People are in love with Tortorella over one season. The other seasons look like this one.
In the standings, maybe. But his teams usually didn't look as disinterested as this team has at times this season. And his teams were never as mentally fragile as this one is.

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12-09-2013, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
Surprised people still think it's a coaching problem...
Yup. Didn't think it was a coaching problem with Torts and I still don't with AV. Our team just isn't very good.

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12-09-2013, 08:09 AM
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In the standings, maybe. But his teams usually didn't look as disinterested as this team has at times this season. And his teams were never as mentally fragile as this one is.
Bingo.

Worst of all, this team got a license to loaf from their GM in the summer. "Just go out there and have fun" like this is a friggin tee-ball team. I think Sather seriously misjudged the team's ability to police themselves and put AV in a tough position.

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12-09-2013, 09:20 AM
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This team has no sack. Has nothing to do with AV. I actually like his style, just not the players playing it.

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12-09-2013, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Bingo.

Worst of all, this team got a license to loaf from their GM in the summer. "Just go out there and have fun" like this is a friggin tee-ball team. I think Sather seriously misjudged the team's ability to police themselves and put AV in a tough position.
The GM also sent the message that the inmates run the asylum this summer.

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Old
12-09-2013, 09:45 AM
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Lets be honest, our bottom 6 is more talented than its been in a few years.
No. It's not. This team has no bottom 6.

Brassard is so bad Richards had to move back to center.

Boyle and Moore have not been good lately at all.

Pyatt and Pouilot are terrible.

Hagelin keeps getting demoted and is less and less effective.

Dorsett is probably the only good bottom 6 player that they have.

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