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Vanek

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Old
12-10-2013, 03:10 PM
  #1
kingdoughty
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Vanek

Ok so I know there are still people in denial, but that trade sucked. I used to love the islanders and the Tavares moulson connection was a big reason why. They were a team on the rise, and they completely screwed up with that trade.

I know Islanders are prob just gonna hold onto Vanek so they don't look like a bunch of amateurs, but just hypothetically, what would Vanek bring in return for them at the deadline?

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Old
12-10-2013, 03:19 PM
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SlickM32
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1st
top prospect
mid level guy
conditional pick if he resigns
throw in

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Old
12-11-2013, 12:48 AM
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jess22
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He will probably sign with Minnesota wild

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Old
12-11-2013, 12:54 AM
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He will probably sign with Minnesota wild
How much more money do they have?

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12-11-2013, 03:08 AM
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Honour Over Glory
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He will probably sign with Minnesota wild
He's someone I hope Shero personally contacts in the summer, if Orpik and Niskanen are gone next year and the cap does go up to 71m or so, getting Vanek signed at around 5m/yr would be awesome and a disgustingly awesome top 6 is finally set. Even better if Shero can use his compliance buyout on Dupuis and walks away from that altogether.

Just the idea of it...oh yes...

Kunitz, Crosby, Vanek
Bennett, Malkin, Neal

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Old
12-11-2013, 04:15 AM
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Tunapants
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
He's someone I hope Shero personally contacts in the summer, if Orpik and Niskanen are gone next year and the cap does go up to 71m or so, getting Vanek signed at around 5m/yr would be awesome and a disgustingly awesome top 6 is finally set. Even better if Shero can use his compliance buyout on Dupuis and walks away from that altogether.

Just the idea of it...oh yes...

Kunitz, Crosby, Vanek
Bennett, Malkin, Neal
He isnt signing for 5m, a lot more then that.

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Old
12-11-2013, 05:32 AM
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Vatican Roulette
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Personally, I think the market has been set on Vanek.

A first
A 2nd
Roster player

Considering Moulson was also a UFA, and the pick might differ, some over variation might be accurate as well.

I also don't see the Ilses trading him.

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Old
12-11-2013, 05:39 AM
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mightyquack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
He's someone I hope Shero personally contacts in the summer, if Orpik and Niskanen are gone next year and the cap does go up to 71m or so, getting Vanek signed at around 5m/yr would be awesome and a disgustingly awesome top 6 is finally set. Even better if Shero can use his compliance buyout on Dupuis and walks away from that altogether.

Just the idea of it...oh yes...

Kunitz, Crosby, Vanek
Bennett, Malkin, Neal
Given Clarkson just signed for 5.25m, I'm going to assume Vanek at 5m is a rather large longshot.

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Old
12-11-2013, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by mightyquack View Post
Given Clarkson just signed for 5.25m, I'm going to assume Vanek at 5m is a rather large longshot.
Also considering the cap is going up, and that was a longterm contract, he should sign for significantly more

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12-11-2013, 06:06 AM
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Vatican Roulette
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I wouldn't be surprised if a team offered Vanek 8.5x7.

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Old
12-11-2013, 07:09 AM
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I wouldn't be surprised if a team offered Vanek 8.5x7.
That's exactly what I think he gets.

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Old
12-11-2013, 07:55 AM
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Dan-o16
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For the 3rd time, there's no point trading Vanek until the deadline nears. Nobody is going to offer what NYI needs for him (legit top-4 D-man under club controls), and his value won't decrease as time goes on.

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12-11-2013, 08:00 AM
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I wouldn't be surprised if a team offered Vanek 8.5x7.
i think its going to be 8.5 x 8 if he resigns with whatever team has him at the end of the season or 9x7 for a new team. He is going to absolutely get (over)paid.

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Old
12-11-2013, 08:28 AM
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i think its going to be 8.5 x 8 if he resigns with whatever team has him at the end of the season or 9x7 for a new team. He is going to absolutely get (over)paid.
There is something called inflation....

Players that are "overpaid" are typically making less % of the cap then their previous deals, which is actually better for the club. The cap goes up so do salaries. A 9M cap hit on a 71m cap is 12%, a 7.142 cap hit in '07 was 14% of the cap... Overpaid needs to be relative to the spending structure of the league. It isnt 07 anymore...

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Old
12-11-2013, 08:34 AM
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Kaibur
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
For the 3rd time, there's no point trading Vanek until the deadline nears. Nobody is going to offer what NYI needs for him (legit top-4 D-man under club controls), and his value won't decrease as time goes on.
He could get hurt, walk in free agency, and the Isles would be left holding the bag.

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Old
12-11-2013, 08:45 AM
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Dan-o16
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He could get hurt, walk in free agency, and the Isles would be left holding the bag.
Nobody makes moves just because somebody could get hurt. In any case, Vanek is about as durable as they come.

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12-11-2013, 09:03 AM
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Kaibur
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Nobody makes moves just because somebody could get hurt. In any case, Vanek is about as durable as they come.
You said his value won't decrease with time. I'm saying that there is definitely a way that his value will decrease to 0 between now and the deadline. Are you saying that's not a possibility?

If the Isles think they're out of it and don't think they can get Vanek to sign, they can wait until the deadline to hope for an increase in value. But there is definitely a risk to that strategy. I suppose the question is about the relation of the increased value to the potential risk. Personally, I don't see it as a good ratio. I guess you do.

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12-11-2013, 09:28 AM
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tony d
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Can't see Vanek getting 8.5 million per year. More than likely he gets 7 million per year over 7 yrs.

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Old
12-11-2013, 09:31 AM
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Dan-o16
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Originally Posted by Kaibur View Post
You said his value won't decrease with time. I'm saying that there is definitely a way that his value will decrease to 0 between now and the deadline. Are you saying that's not a possibility?

If the Isles think they're out of it and don't think they can get Vanek to sign, they can wait until the deadline to hope for an increase in value. But there is definitely a risk to that strategy. I suppose the question is about the relation of the increased value to the potential risk. Personally, I don't see it as a good ratio. I guess you do.
I think the risk of injury < the possibility that NYI resigns Vanek.

The only relevant factor is the possibility that NYI resigns Vanek. There's no reason to believe that NYI thinks there is no chance of that.

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12-11-2013, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
I think the risk of injury < the possibility that NYI resigns Vanek.

The only relevant factor is the possibility that NYI resigns Vanek. There's no reason to believe that NYI thinks there is no chance of that.
Agreed. The reason the Isles paid that high price for Vanek was for a chance to see if he could fit and sign him before he hits free agency. If they're still evaluating that, even though they're out of the playoff picture at present, for the long term health of the club, they shouldn't move him yet.

But if either side decides it's not going to happen, they should move quickly for all parties involved.

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12-11-2013, 09:51 AM
  #21
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In principle, should the Islanders have a right to expect to recoup their costs on Vanek - ie. to get what they paid (and then some)?

Or should they be dealing him with the expectation that they got some value from having him for the balance of the season (assuming he's moved at the deadline) and that the asset they'll be moving will have depreciated some?

I suppose even if it is the latter, trade deadline inflation might come into play.. but I would expect that they can hope to recoup the picks but probably not the roster player unless a team needs to unload salary (ie. they're not going to get a poor man's equivalent to Vanek back the way Buffalo did).

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Old
12-11-2013, 09:55 AM
  #22
Dan-o16
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But if either side decides it's not going to happen, they should move quickly for all parties involved.
I'm not clear on this. Can NYI/Vanek negotiate right now, or do they need to wait till the new year?

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Old
12-11-2013, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
I'm not clear on this. Can NYI/Vanek negotiate right now, or do they need to wait till the new year?
I could be wrong, but I thought the time restriction was on one year deals.

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Old
12-11-2013, 10:02 AM
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Kaibur
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I could be wrong, but I thought the time restriction was on one year deals.
I thought so too. I just figured they hadn't opened negotiations until they evaluated whether they thought it was a good long term investment worth the big money he'll garner.

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Old
12-11-2013, 10:05 AM
  #25
Ghost of Dale Hunter
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Originally Posted by mightyquack View Post
Given Clarkson just signed for 5.25m, I'm going to assume Vanek at 5m is a rather large longshot.
He is in the last year of 7yrs at 7m per. I doubt he will take any less than 7.

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