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Old
01-15-2014, 10:31 AM
  #226
Hiesenberg
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Campbell I think is 6'.
The science isn't perfect, ESPN had him at 5'11", some other site might have him 6'.

Honestly who cares, he's a smallish guy that's light but can score. Basically thats what we need in Ghost.

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01-15-2014, 12:26 PM
  #227
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Injuries like something chronic (ACL, Concussion, etc) or injuries like bad luck things still happen (broken bone or something).
He's had documented concussion and groin issues.

I seem to recall back issues, too, but a quick search found nothing.

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01-15-2014, 12:27 PM
  #228
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He's had documented concussion and groin issues.

I seem to recall back issues, too, but a quick search found nothing.
Yeesh. I still think that it might be worth it. Contract would be under $1 million and if he was traded for I can't imagine it would be for anything more than a late round pick. I'd still roll the dice.

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01-15-2014, 12:45 PM
  #229
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So not too many, though according to Wikipedia Spurgeon is 185 not 168 so he may not be that far off from the 190 mark. Either way, I think Ghost will need to play at least a year in the AHL before he even sniffs the NHL (unless he is like absolutely dominating or something). Should be interesting, but my expectations for Ghost are not very high at the moment. He has an uphill battle in front of him because of his size. Undersized guys have and can make an impact, but they are behind the eightball from the get-go. I'm sure he has a ton of skill, but I'll be skeptical of him because of his size until he proves me wrong.
You're blowing this out of proportion, DFF. Ghost is a really superior skater with huge skill level and elite hockey sense.

From the limited times I've seen him, he reminds me of Phil Housley, who was small and skinny but could really skate, but Karlsson is a good size comparator.

The skating makes up for the weight. The brains make up for the bulk. I don't have any question about whether he'll be an NHL regular at all, the only question is whether it's at the end of this season, next camp, or next spring after either graduation or a season as the Phantom Ghost.

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01-15-2014, 04:14 PM
  #230
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I wonder if Vinny would ever consider moving his NMC to go somewhere else?

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01-15-2014, 04:20 PM
  #231
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I wonder if Vinny would ever consider moving his NMC to go somewhere else?
He probably should. It would benefit the Flyer,s which shouldn't really be part of his decision, he needs to do what is best for himself. But if he wants to be a 1st or 2nd line center he probably needs to go somewhere else. We have so much depth a center and RW

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01-15-2014, 04:22 PM
  #232
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He probably should. It would benefit the Flyer,s which shouldn't really be part of his decision, he needs to do what is best for himself. But if he wants to be a 1st or 2nd line center he probably needs to go somewhere else. We have so much depth a center and RW
Yep, and a team like the Blues would probably love to try and get him. He seemed like a fit to begin the year, but with Schenns play at center it really leaves him in a tough spot. St Louis, Montreal, Vancouver I would think would be all over him if he was on the market.

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01-15-2014, 04:33 PM
  #233
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Yep, and a team like the Blues would probably love to try and get him. He seemed like a fit to begin the year, but with Schenns play at center it really leaves him in a tough spot. St Louis, Montreal, Vancouver I would think would be all over him if he was on the market.
I like Vinnie, and he has scored some clutch goals, but if we could move him for a quality prospect or a high pick, it would be worth considering.

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01-15-2014, 06:40 PM
  #234
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Flyers have a scout at the Toronto game tonight. Maybe the Flyers can steal Jake Gardiner for Grossmann..... Maybe a Gradiner+1st for Coburn??? Probably looking at Reimer lol

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01-16-2014, 07:43 AM
  #235
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You're blowing this out of proportion, DFF. Ghost is a really superior skater with huge skill level and elite hockey sense.

From the limited times I've seen him, he reminds me of Phil Housley, who was small and skinny but could really skate, but Karlsson is a good size comparator.

The skating makes up for the weight. The brains make up for the bulk. I don't have any question about whether he'll be an NHL regular at all, the only question is whether it's at the end of this season, next camp, or next spring after either graduation or a season as the Phantom Ghost.
Hopefully I am, but there is a reason that players his size are few and far between. I don't know if that list posted yesterday was exhaustive, but that's less than 15 players at his position at his size (actually bigger than he is now, just projected what he will likely wind up once he gets to the NHL). I'm not saying he'll never make it, I'm simply saying that I am skeptical as to whether or not he will. A guy his size playing well in the NCAA doesn't mean all that much, as the players he is playing against are smaller in stature and also less talented than the guys he'll be playing against in the NHL, or even the AHL for that matter.

I'll be rooting for him and obviously I hope he becomes a solid NHLer, but I think making a prediction based on his play in the NCAA, regardless of how good his vision, skating, or IQ looks to you, isn't only going to get your hopes up. If he plays in the AHL next year and he can handle the bigger bodies and better players there, then I think you can make a more likely prediction of his NHL abilities, but I think you are really downplaying just how small he is. He still has to put on 20+ pounds to even be the same size as the smallest defenders in the league.

Going up against the best players in the world, who also happen to be 4 inches taller and thirty pounds heavier, means you have to be that much better than they are. I'm not saying Ghost isn't that good, but based on his play against NCAA players who are much smaller and much less talented, I don't think you can fairly say that he WILL be an NHL regular.

If he had the size to back it up, that is a different story, but again, there are a reason that there are only a handful of defenders his size in the NHL, and an even smaller number that are really successful.

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01-16-2014, 07:59 AM
  #236
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Flyers have a scout at the Toronto game tonight. Maybe the Flyers can steal Jake Gardiner for Grossmann..... Maybe a Gradiner+1st for Coburn??? Probably looking at Reimer lol
We need skaters on D.

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01-16-2014, 08:13 AM
  #237
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We need skaters on D.
Gardiner's a great skater, so that would make sense.

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01-16-2014, 08:19 AM
  #238
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Gardiner's a great skater, so that would make sense.
I'm listening then. The team struggles so badly with actual skating ability on Defense. And it boggles my mind that Gus sits in the press box.

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01-16-2014, 08:32 AM
  #239
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I'm listening then. The team struggles so badly with actual skating ability on Defense. And it boggles my mind that Gus sits in the press box.
I'm not going to get into the whole debate about Gus/Mez, but I will say, I think Gus skating is a little overrated. He can move the puck, but he doesn't have blazing speed. He actually reminds me a lot of Kimmo with his skating.

A retooling of the defense needs to be the first priority on Homers list of offseason moves. We need to get younger and faster back there. Players like Grossmann, Schenn, and even Kimmo with his slowing speed have hurt us too many times. I wouldn't mind moving Grossmann/Schenn at the deadline for younger faster defenders if we could. Similar to what San Jose did last year, they unloaded all their slower guys to bring more speed to the lineup, and it actually made them better.

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01-16-2014, 09:09 AM
  #240
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I think if Schenn is given a full off-season to fully work on his skating, I think we'll be fine, in the same way that I think Couts should do the same. Mez and Timonen being gone, I think Gus should be brought in and if he really shows he's ready or at least willing, I could see the Flyers giving Morin a 9 game test run. For defense... not sure. I'd love Enstrom, but he would cost a bit. Downie and Grossmann for Enstrom? That'd be nice.

For me, I think letting Downie go, re-signing Raffl for 4th line duties (higher if someone is injured) and bringing up Laughton should be the right course of action for our forwards.

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01-16-2014, 09:11 AM
  #241
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I'm not going to get into the whole debate about Gus/Mez, but I will say, I think Gus skating is a little overrated. He can move the puck, but he doesn't have blazing speed. He actually reminds me a lot of Kimmo with his skating.

A retooling of the defense needs to be the first priority on Homers list of offseason moves. We need to get younger and faster back there. Players like Grossmann, Schenn, and even Kimmo with his slowing speed have hurt us too many times. I wouldn't mind moving Grossmann/Schenn at the deadline for younger faster defenders if we could. Similar to what San Jose did last year, they unloaded all their slower guys to bring more speed to the lineup, and it actually made them better.
When I'm constantly watching Schenn/Mesz get turned around and then chasing the puck carrier, I'm thinking Gus needs to be in.

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01-16-2014, 09:12 AM
  #242
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I think if Schenn is given a full off-season to fully work on his skating, I think we'll be fine, in the same way that I think Couts should do the same. Mez and Timonen being gone, I think Gus should be brought in and if he really shows he's ready or at least willing, I could see the Flyers giving Morin a 9 game test run. For defense... not sure. I'd love Enstrom, but he would cost a bit. Downie and Grossmann for Enstrom? That'd be nice.

For me, I think letting Downie go, re-signing Raffl for 4th line duties (higher if someone is injured) and bringing up Laughton should be the right course of action for our forwards.
One problem with people saying this is he has had 5 years now to improve his skating. It just hasn't happened. Gary Roberts ripped him before as well. Saying something along the line of "you can tell all he did was ride the bike in the summer, he is going to be playing slow and out of shape" when he was with Toronto(paraphrasing). He needs to work harder in the off season. Go with Couts and train with him. He needs to want to get better in that area, if he isn't willing, I am not opposed to moving him.

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01-16-2014, 09:13 AM
  #243
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One problem with people saying this is he has had 5 years now to improve his skating. It just hasn't happened. Gary Roberts ripped him before as well. Saying something along the line of "you can tell all he did was ride the bike in the summer, he is going to be playing slow and out of shape" when he was with Toronto(paraphrasing). He needs to work harder in the off season. Go with Couts and train with him. He needs to want to get better in that area, if he isn't willing, I am not opposed to moving him.
I'm sure Berube and possibly other teammates could get him motivated to actually ****ing do something.

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01-16-2014, 09:43 AM
  #244
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Flyers have a scout at the Toronto game tonight. Maybe the Flyers can steal Jake Gardiner for Grossmann..... Maybe a Gradiner+1st for Coburn??? Probably looking at Reimer lol
Every team in the league is trying to poach Gardiner. I doubt he's available for anything less than B.Schenn or Couturier. Not that I'd do it, but the Leafs will get LOTS of better offers than Grossmann or Coburn.

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01-16-2014, 09:45 AM
  #245
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Hopefully I am, but there is a reason that players his size are few and far between. I don't know if that list posted yesterday was exhaustive, but that's less than 15 players at his position at his size (actually bigger than he is now, just projected what he will likely wind up once he gets to the NHL). I'm not saying he'll never make it, I'm simply saying that I am skeptical as to whether or not he will. A guy his size playing well in the NCAA doesn't mean all that much, as the players he is playing against are smaller in stature and also less talented than the guys he'll be playing against in the NHL, or even the AHL for that matter.

I'll be rooting for him and obviously I hope he becomes a solid NHLer, but I think making a prediction based on his play in the NCAA, regardless of how good his vision, skating, or IQ looks to you, isn't only going to get your hopes up. If he plays in the AHL next year and he can handle the bigger bodies and better players there, then I think you can make a more likely prediction of his NHL abilities, but I think you are really downplaying just how small he is. He still has to put on 20+ pounds to even be the same size as the smallest defenders in the league.

Going up against the best players in the world, who also happen to be 4 inches taller and thirty pounds heavier, means you have to be that much better than they are. I'm not saying Ghost isn't that good, but based on his play against NCAA players who are much smaller and much less talented, I don't think you can fairly say that he WILL be an NHL regular.

If he had the size to back it up, that is a different story, but again, there are a reason that there are only a handful of defenders his size in the NHL, and an even smaller number that are really successful.
All fair points, we'll see if he can continue to improve his game and put on some weight as he gets older. If it takes a couple more years, i.e. his Sr. year at Union and a year in the AHL after that, that's OK with me.

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01-16-2014, 09:46 AM
  #246
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Every team in the league is trying to poach Gardiner. I doubt he's available for anything less than B.Schenn or Couturier. Not that I'd do it, but the Leafs will get LOTS of better offers than Grossmann or Coburn.
Or they can hold onto him and ruin him like everybody up in Toronto thinks they are doing already.

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01-16-2014, 09:47 AM
  #247
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Every team in the league is trying to poach Gardiner. I doubt he's available for anything less than B.Schenn or Couturier. Not that I'd do it, but the Leafs will get LOTS of better offers than Grossmann or Coburn.
Although I think a lot of people overrate him, Coburn for Gardiner+pick seems like a fair deal. I was just spit balling, I don't even know if I would make that move. Gardiner has trouble playing up to speed sometimes though. His hockey IQ isn't a bright spot to me. I have seen him delay the puck many times, and it forces him to force passes and turn the puck over. He also is pretty soft, but is still developing. He plays the puck around the board soft far too often, it was the direct result of a goal the other night. We would kill him for it here, he would hem the Flyers in our own zone with some of his plays.

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01-16-2014, 09:57 AM
  #248
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He probably should. It would benefit the Flyer,s which shouldn't really be part of his decision, he needs to do what is best for himself. But if he wants to be a 1st or 2nd line center he probably needs to go somewhere else. We have so much depth a center and RW
I guess the whole logjam at center situation was discussed with Vinny back and forth before he actually signed with the Flyers. He knew that he would have to play center for at least part of the season until line combinations and roster moves are sorted out.

Flyers have too many centers but gaping holes on defense. Something will have to give to make it work. Of all our centers, Lecavalier would probably be the hardest to move in a trade based on age and contract - no matter what his personal preferences would be.

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01-16-2014, 10:17 AM
  #249
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Every team in the league is trying to poach Gardiner. I doubt he's available for anything less than B.Schenn or Couturier. Not that I'd do it, but the Leafs will get LOTS of better offers than Grossmann or Coburn.
Agree, he still is second on their team in ice time behind Phaneuf with about 22 minutes per game.

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01-16-2014, 02:11 PM
  #250
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I guess the whole logjam at center situation was discussed with Vinny back and forth before he actually signed with the Flyers. He knew that he would have to play center for at least part of the season until line combinations and roster moves are sorted out.

Flyers have too many centers but gaping holes on defense. Something will have to give to make it work. Of all our centers, Lecavalier would probably be the hardest to move in a trade based on age and contract - no matter what his personal preferences would be.
I think Vinny will move into RW duties full time for us if he sticks/stays - and I can't see him being moved. I think Downie doesn't come back either.

I'd be fine with (not now, next season) switching lines up. OR grabbing an elite LW via FA

Schenn/XXXX - Roo - Vora
Hartnell - Vinny - Simmonds
XXX/Raffl - Coots - Read
Raffl/Rinaldo - VV/Laughton - Hall

lineup2:

XXX - Roo - Vora
Hartnell - Schenn - Simmonds
Read - Coots - Vinny
Raffl - VV - Hall

I realize Schenn is better suited to play C, but I can't see the Flyers moving him for nothing and I can't see other teams giving up a 1st pairing RHD that can move the puck, which is what we all want.

Would it be concerning for the Flyers to ONLY ship out ONE Schenn?

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