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The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

What in hockey history does NOT heal all wounds?

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Old
12-11-2013, 03:01 PM
  #76
thom
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Papa Joe you have a point more money may have kept Dryden and Lemaire for a couple of more years.Though Lemaire Salary in Switzerland was mostly tax free and included free housing and car.Dryden said he would never play for another team but give him another 100 000-150 000 would have made decision tough he is a smart man

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Old
12-11-2013, 03:10 PM
  #77
Killion
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Bear View Post
how about Harold Snepsts' perfect pass to Mike Bossy in overtime of game one of the 82 SCF?

or future 50-goal scorer Rick Vaive being traded for ... *shudder* ... Tiger Williams?
... well, in all fairness to Williams, he did become a bit of a fan favorite & popular man about town. Eventual owner of the Vancouver VooDoo roller hockey team. But ya, thats likely one trade the Canucks would like back & maybe Williams as well. Loved Toronto & the fans liked him back. Was a bit of a surprise he was traded in fact as he also seemed to get along well with Ballard. Even gave him a Bear Skin Rug one year from one of his hunting trips.

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Old
12-11-2013, 05:31 PM
  #78
Big Phil
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Why hold grudges against coaches and, especially, certain players (Visentin) who tried their best but were beaten by better teams?
They didn't try their best though. They collapsed. The 2011 WJC stings the most. Dave Cameron didn't even have Nugent-Hopkins on the team. He didn't call a time out in the third period when the score was 3-2, but rather 3-3 once the cat was out of the bag. Visentin had arguably the worst period a goalie has ever had. The team played entitled in front of him in the 3rd period. This was after 2010 when Canada blew another Gold medal lead. But after winning gold 5 times in a row, losing eventually was inevitable. But 2011 when you have it in the bag and take your foot off the gas? Nope, that angers me.

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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
12.) The depreciation of winning.
You'll have to explain this one a bit better. Do you mean the lax attitude towards winning or the players not caring as much as they used to?

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Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
-- Ozzy's injury in 99, Ranford coming in, playing like crap and ruining a sure threepeat.
-- The league moving the Finals in 09 to allow banged up Wings no healing time whatsoever and stacking cards to give the Cup to Crosby.
The first one especially sticks out. Ranford went 2-2 in the playoffs when Osgood was out. He had a shutout. Colorado just simply came back. Osgood didn't play great either in the final two losses. I'm not sure anything was for "sure" in 1999. Colorado was always a Cup threat and Dallas would have been waiting in the semis regardless. That is far from a gimme. I'll agree Buffalo in the final was going to be beaten regardles though.

2009 is one Wings fans tend to dwell on. I think it's sour grapes. The Pens won a very tight series, they were the best team that year. They were hungrier. Not to mention, the Red Wings won those first two games of the series. It isn't as if the Penguins won them. If Detroit and Chicago went to 6 games, the finals would have started the following Saturday regardless. It was not set up for a Penguins win. If it were, the NHL did a poor job of trying to help Pittsburgh win.

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12-11-2013, 05:34 PM
  #79
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Finland beating us in the 1998 Olympic quarter-final. I was a young teenager who after that, and the 1995 WHC final as well come to think of it, will never take pleasure more than when we win against Finland. Edit: Or rather, will never hurt more then we lose against them. Winning a championship is of course better than to beat Finland in some less important game.
On the flip side, I'm still annoyed at the 2013 WHC semi finals...

Bring on 2014!

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12-11-2013, 05:58 PM
  #80
Canadiens1958
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Depreciation of Winning

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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post

You'll have to explain this one a bit better. Do you mean the lax attitude towards winning or the players not caring as much as they used to?
From the awarding of the loser point in regular season games - loss in OT or shootout, to the drift to individual stats vs team performance and the points in between.

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12-11-2013, 06:01 PM
  #81
Big Phil
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
From the awarding of the loser point in regular season games - loss in OT or shootout, to the drift to individual stats vs team performance and the points in between.
Agree, I never liked the loser point, or the shootout. I think the latter is more a product of fantasy hockey and such. The real fans still know the value of Jonathan Toews and his overall game compared to a potential 100 point man. I am pretty sure Toews wouldn't trade either of his Cups for a 100 point year. Or a Hart Trophy.

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12-11-2013, 06:20 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
From the awarding of the loser point in regular season games - loss in OT or shootout, to the drift to individual stats vs team performance and the points in between.
Ya Im one who rails against the Shootout altogether. A10 minute 4on4 with the clock running Id be good with and if it ends in a tie so be it, though even at that, why bother, whats wrong with a tie game?... and yes, personal stats over team performance a scourge to be certain. Performance based Contracts absolutely but many odiously transcend the collective, of team first.

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Old
12-11-2013, 06:35 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
What STILL bothers you? For me, here's a baker's dozen:

1. Linden being traded away from Vancouver
2. Makarov not being inducted
3. Bourque leaving Boston for Colorado (Boston becoming a top contender in the East THAT very season Bourque was in CO)
4. the Alexandre Burrows finger bite ... a low point of my life as a 'Nucks fan ((Henrik on his butt from Thomas' push ranks up there).
5. the nongoal by the Stars in Hasek's crease to decide the Stanley Cup
6. the Oilers drafting Yakupov when they needed blueline help
7. the Predators not re-signing Suter somehow (the Preds were bearable to watch with Weber and Suter there together)
8. Gretzky not given a chance in the shootout
9. the last two lockouts
10. Suter's cheapshot crosscheck to the head of Kariya by the crease
11. CBC firing Dave Hodge for expressing his frustration on air at having the network cut away from a live hockey game for some other programming.
12. Forsberg's career hampered by injury
13. Axelsson never getting the Selke consideration he was due
For the bolded, they drafted the BPA, that's what you do when you're picking first. Otherwise everyone else would be giving them **** for not taking Yakupov

And everyone knew Suter wasn't gonna stay so I don't know why that bothers you.

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Old
12-11-2013, 06:46 PM
  #84
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For me it was when Orr left the Bruins. How Eagleson played him and how naive Orr was. It was brutal.

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BOSTON STRONG !!!
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Old
12-11-2013, 07:57 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
From the awarding of the loser point in regular season games - loss in OT or shootout, to the drift to individual stats vs team performance and the points in between.
... plus the draft, which is how I interpreted your message first.

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12-11-2013, 08:05 PM
  #86
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1. 2012 ecf (although its the RANGERS own fault. Should have taken Ottawa in 4 in round 1)
2. 2010 olympic final
3.2002 olympic final
4. Messier leaving in 97
5. Not signing Sakic in 97
6. Games 2 and 5 in the 2007 ecf. RANGERS should have beat Buffalo
7. Sitting back with a 1-0 lead at philly in 2010 and ultimately missing the playoffs
8. Anything Dave Checketts or Jim Dolan have ever done
9.And last but not least trading Brian Leetch in 2004

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Old
12-11-2013, 08:43 PM
  #87
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In no particular order:

1. Winnipeg Jets moving
2. Quebec Nordiques moving
3. Hartford Whalers moving

Bring 'em all back!

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Old
12-11-2013, 08:55 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
11) That the WHA shamelessly picked, signed & employed underage juniors, forcing the National Hockey League to follow suit after that reckless move following the Linesman suit in lowering the age of eligibility in the NHL Draft.


yes, & immediately afterward we were plagued with pimply-faced teenagers like Wayne Gretzky, Paul Coffey, Mark Messier, Ray Bourque, Denis Savard, Dale Hawerchuk, Ron Francis, etc

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12-11-2013, 09:52 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
Yzerman puck to the face in the '04 WCF. I think it was Ville Nieminen from the Flames who slap shot it very wide. Unusually wide, all while the Flames were desperate.
Big turning point, as it was a 0-0 Game 5 in a tied series. But afterward the Wings players had that glassy look in their eyes, the one that you usually see in fish that have been dead for quite some time. They never scored another goal that season. Curtis Joseph played the best game of his Red Wings tenure in that Game 6, finally giving Detroit great goaltending under pressure, and still lost for lack of offensive support.

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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
The first one especially sticks out. Ranford went 2-2 in the playoffs when Osgood was out. He had a shutout. Colorado just simply came back. Osgood didn't play great either in the final two losses. I'm not sure anything was for "sure" in 1999. Colorado was always a Cup threat and Dallas would have been waiting in the semis regardless. That is far from a gimme. I'll agree Buffalo in the final was going to be beaten regardles though.
To give a bit more context, Ranford was good to great in the first two games, with the Wings taking both on the road and what looked like a stranglehold going home (prompting gentlemanly Denver pundits to write gems like this one even after the Avs took Game 3 ). He was then so bad in Games 3 and 4 that they dragged a still-hurting Osgood back in for the deciding games.

Steve Yzerman, however, attributed the loss to them not being able to beat Roy. They definitely had their chances, but after Yzerman got crossbar in Game 3, the turning point of that series, everything went Colorado's way. He expressed a lot of frustration about not being able to stem the tide despite throwing everything they had at Roy.

Also, Osgood was never very good against Colorado in those days, though, so it's hard to be confident he would've closed them out if he'd remained healthy all along.

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Old
12-11-2013, 10:00 PM
  #90
Killion
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Bear View Post


yes, & immediately afterward we were plagued with pimply-faced teenagers like Wayne Gretzky, Paul Coffey, Mark Messier, Ray Bourque, Denis Savard, Dale Hawerchuk, Ron Francis, etc
... yep. All of whom shouldve played Junior until the age of 20.

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12-11-2013, 10:03 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... yep. All of whom shouldve played Junior until the age of 20.
That would've sucked and the league, and the players affected, are much better off for it.

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Old
12-11-2013, 10:13 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
The first one especially sticks out. Ranford went 2-2 in the playoffs when Osgood was out. He had a shutout. Colorado just simply came back. Osgood didn't play great either in the final two losses. I'm not sure anything was for "sure" in 1999. Colorado was always a Cup threat and Dallas would have been waiting in the semis regardless. That is far from a gimme. I'll agree Buffalo in the final was going to be beaten regardles though.
There's no way a three peat was a sure thing even with a healthy Osgood but you clearly don't remember this series. Ranford was very good in the first two games but completely fell apart in game 3 and 4, getting pulled for Norm Maracle. Osgood shouldn't have even played in game 5 due to injury but they started him anyways cause he was still the best option, playing at less than 100%. With Roy standing on his head at the other end Detroit didn't have a chance with their goaltending situation that year.

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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
2009 is one Wings fans tend to dwell on. I think it's sour grapes. The Pens won a very tight series, they were the best team that year. They were hungrier. Not to mention, the Red Wings won those first two games of the series. It isn't as if the Penguins won them. If Detroit and Chicago went to 6 games, the finals would have started the following Saturday regardless. It was not set up for a Penguins win. If it were, the NHL did a poor job of trying to help Pittsburgh win.
It's not just sour grapes, it's been documented that during the GM meetings earlier in the year that they agreed both finalists would be in town (Detroit in this case) for a few days before the Finals started to build it up. Babcock mentioned this in an interview before the series started. The NHL changed all of that last minute, apparently due to NBC's demands, and not only did they start the series two days after the WCF but with back to back games. Check out the last 10 or so finals series and you will see '09 started the quickest after the conference finals - and I believe it is the only one starting with back to back games. Now, you can say the Wings won the first two games but I watched that team all year and even then they looked gassed and gritted out those games. It appeared to completely drain Zetterberg for the rest of the series. The team went into that series with a team of walking wounded players and no Datsyuk. The schedule change completely helped the Pens, who were very healthy going in, and most people knew it.

You continue to ignore, and fail to mention, that Datsyuk (Hart finalist that year) missed the first 4 games with an injury and when he came back he was far from 100%. At the same time I've seen you make excuses for the Pens in '08 stating if Malkin played his best they would have won. Think about that...

You say the Pens were the hungrier team but it was really amazing that Detroit even took that series to 7 games considering how beat up they were going in. If both teams went in healthy I think it would have been a repeat of '08. Injuries happen but don't pretend the teams were on even ground and the Pens were simply better and hungrier. The Pens were very fortunate the Red Wings were so beat up after the WCF and the NHL did them a big favour with the weird schedule.

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Old
12-11-2013, 10:20 PM
  #93
Killion
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That would've sucked and the league, and the players affected, are much better off for it.
Yes, Im aware Im likely in the minority on that topic, however, for every Francis or Messier there are tens of dozens of busts, players with huge potential who simply cant handle it and who arrive as completely unfinished works. They develop bad habits, lose their confidence or whatever, gone by 22, 23. Im paying $50 or $500 for a ticket, staring at the TV, I dont wanna watch "works in progress". I want to watch professionals who's tool boxes arent 1/2 empty. The NHL isnt supposed to be a "development league" but on any given night, impossible to watch it and not come to that conclusion.

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12-11-2013, 11:10 PM
  #94
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The vast majority of players don't start right away in the NHL and of the players who would start at 20 aren't always going to have full toolboxes either. I do not think the NHL as a "development league" has any merit. The bust rate in the NHL is not high at all, whether you're comparing it to the other sports or to the past years of the NHL.

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Old
12-11-2013, 11:29 PM
  #95
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1. The North Stars moving

2. Bryan Marchment taking out Mike Modano's knee 30 games in to the 1997-98 season. Modano was leading the league in scoring on a 1st place Dallas team and as far as skaters, none were better. Coulda been is "THAT season". F you Marchment.

3. Mike Modano never hitting the 100 point mark in a season. Now I get to hear how "He never really had THAT season." Because a few measly points separates the great from the not-so-great

4. Losing to the Penguins 8-0 in game 6

5. Mike Modano being turned away by the Stars, then signing with the Wings.

6. Trading James Neal for Alex Goligoski

I'm sure there's more. Those are the biggies.


Last edited by tjcurrie: 12-11-2013 at 11:37 PM.
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Old
12-11-2013, 11:34 PM
  #96
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Age of Majority

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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... yep. All of whom shouldve played Junior until the age of 20.
NHL lowering the age to 18 was inevitable after Canadian provinces lowered the age of majority to 18 or 19 circa 1972.

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Old
12-11-2013, 11:43 PM
  #97
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Not in order:

1. Everything Rejean Houle, from his hiring to the Roy trade to his terrible drafting and everything else, except for the 1998 draft. He set the franchise back a decade.

2. Justin Williams high stick on Saku Koivu. It cost Montreal the game and the series.

3. Chara on Pacioretty.

4. Blowing a lead in the final game of the 2006-07 season to the Toronto Maple Leafs and missing the playoffs. The only redemption is that Toronto missed the playoffs too.

5. Letting Saku Koivu go and making a terrible trade to acquire Scott Gomez as his replacement.

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Old
12-11-2013, 11:43 PM
  #98
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what's the story here?
On Gordie Howe---Howe had initially retired because of bad wrists. However, when he felt that he had so little importance to the organization in retirement, he decided to have the wrist surgery and resume playing in the WHA with the Houston Aeros, which had signed his sons Mark and Marty.

And speaking of the WHA, how the Hall of Fame treated players who started out as stars in the WHA (as Mark Howe did, playing as a forward) and the NHL's treatment of WHA defectors at the time (see Hull, Bobby).

Another example may be the damage Graham James left behind in the junior ranks...and the Swift Current bus crash.


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Old
12-12-2013, 01:11 AM
  #99
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-Suter never getting what he deserved for his hits on Gretzky and Kariya.

-Gretzky on the bench for Nagano.

-McSorley's illegal stick. Nothing personal against Marty though.

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12-12-2013, 01:39 AM
  #100
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I'll never get over Bobby Clarke changing his first name to Bob.

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