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Would You Make a Run at Miller?

View Poll Results: Would You Deal for Ryan Miller?
Yes, Make the Move 26 40.63%
No, Lets stick with hiller/fasth 29 45.31%
On the fence at the moment 9 14.06%
Voters: 64. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-21-2013, 12:24 AM
  #1
muckbin15
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Would You Make a Run at Miller?

Lets suppose we can either deal hiller to get him or deal hiller separately, and the price wasnt too crazy. Would you be opposed to it because of his "rental" status. I think this team could be an immediate contender with an upgrade in goal. When healthy, this team is going to be great even without stellar goaltending that miller could give us. Thoughts?

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11-21-2013, 12:27 AM
  #2
AngelDuck
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I'm going to say neither of the options IMO.

I would not pay for a rental like Miller (even though he's awesome), and I also wouldn't stick with the Hiller/Fasth combo. I would give Andersen his chance. He's 24, and has dominated the AHL already and played well in his NHL tryout. He's proven he can handle an NHL workload at this point, and Hiller/Fasth are not good enough to keep him down for the rest of the season IMO.

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11-21-2013, 12:29 AM
  #3
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"No, let's stick with Hiller/Fasth."

That's a bit of a loaded answer.

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11-21-2013, 12:32 AM
  #4
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I would think "No, but go with Andersen/Fasth" might be a popular choice that's missing from the poll.

I wouldn't mind going after Miller. Not at the reported cost though.

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11-21-2013, 12:35 AM
  #5
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I don't think Andersen is some miracle worker, but I hope that they pick their guy soon.

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11-21-2013, 12:35 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelDuck View Post
I'm going to say neither of the options IMO.

I would not pay for a rental like Miller (even though he's awesome), and I also wouldn't stick with the Hiller/Fasth combo. I would give Andersen his chance. He's 24, and has dominated the AHL already and played well in his NHL tryout. He's proven he can handle an NHL workload at this point, and Hiller/Fasth are not good enough to keep him down for the rest of the season IMO.


This.

Miller would be too expensive in terms of picks, and players...especially for a "rental". We have competent goalies in our own system, and they need to get used. Andersen's start should've put a fire under Hiller's ass, instead he looks complacent...like he knows he's #1, and the net is his. Sadly, every player has a "shelf life", and if they are not helping the team win, they need to accept that someone else can. It shouldn't be a personal issue. It should be whatever is best to help the team win.

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11-21-2013, 12:44 AM
  #7
muckbin15
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I actually had a fasth/andersen typed in beside the hiller/fasth option but i think its really hard to make that move when andersen has only played ~6 games. Fasth had his hot start last year as well and slowed down. As good as I think andersen is I dont think he is our answer just yet. I have no proof of that whatsoever but something is telling me that giving him the reins might come back to bite us.

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11-21-2013, 12:46 AM
  #8
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i agree with the other post...i put on the fence, but its because i wouldnt give up much more than hiller, and i would just assume trade hiller for something else.

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11-21-2013, 01:16 AM
  #9
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I think there should be a fourth option that reads, "Yes, I'm Milan Lucic."

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11-21-2013, 01:17 AM
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Eddie Shack
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This issue does not lend itself easily to a black and white answer. If I knew Fasth would remain healthy I'd be willing to go with Fasth/Andersen. But anybody who thinks Andersen has "proven he can handle an NHL workload at this point" isn't thinking clearly. An NHL workload is an 82 game season including multiple trips across country without wearing down or being exposed after getting known around the league. He hasn't proven that but I'd be willing to have him learn it in a backup role.

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11-21-2013, 01:20 AM
  #11
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I'll take it, I guess. There is no shot a Stanley Cup will be won with Hiller in net.

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11-21-2013, 01:20 AM
  #12
Lord Flashheart
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Nope.

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11-21-2013, 01:42 AM
  #13
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Since what I want to do isn't on there I just said no, even though I don't want Hiller/Fasth either. I want Andersen/Fasth.

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11-21-2013, 01:47 AM
  #14
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I wouldn't "take a run" at him. But I would certainly ask what they want, and probably leave an offer of what I felt comfortable.

However, I don't think that upgrade in net takes us as far as you believe to "immediate contention", at least not in the narrow definition that's usually used on the term.

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11-21-2013, 04:03 AM
  #15
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I'm starting to think this could actually be a good move. Hiller + 2nd or even 1st for Miller. Miller has been better behind a bad team than Hiller has been behind a good team, Miller would probably be even better in Anaheim. Sabres would probably have to keep some of the salary.

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11-21-2013, 04:10 AM
  #16
mightyquack
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On the fence, I don't think it would be good for Anaheim long term however short it would be an improvement.

My issue is I assume he'll want at least a 5 year deal come FA, which effectively blocks Andersen and Gibson from becoming legit NHL starting goaltenders in Anaheim for at least 5 years (unless Miller's play really goes down, then Anaheim is stuck with a very expensive back up goaltender a la Jiggy before his trade).

I'm on board with trading one of our current NHL netminders to get Andersen some more NHL experience, though if it's Hiller, I'm still 100% weary of Fasth's injury history, but Andersen needs to get some more NHL experience. That would be better for Anaheim long term for me.

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11-21-2013, 04:26 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyquack View Post
On the fence, I don't think it would be good for Anaheim long term however short it would be an improvement.

My issue is I assume he'll want at least a 5 year deal come FA, which effectively blocks Andersen and Gibson from becoming legit NHL starting goaltenders in Anaheim for at least 5 years (unless Miller's play really goes down, then Anaheim is stuck with a very expensive back up goaltender a la Jiggy before his trade).

I'm on board with trading one of our current NHL netminders to get Andersen some more NHL experience, though if it's Hiller, I'm still 100% weary of Fasth's injury history, but Andersen needs to get some more NHL experience. That would be better for Anaheim long term for me.
I'm with you on both accounts.

I wouldn't mind trading Hiller and one of our firsts for Miller in general, but I don't like spending that price for a guy with little hope of keeping him beyond the season. And there, I see the same issues. Miller can rightfully ask for 5 years and an NTC at $6M on the market. I don't see us giving him four with an NTC, even at a lower cost. If Miller wanted to be here (I don't doubt it...) badly (have to doubt it) and would be confident that he was going to have big years here and then still sign his last big retirement contract after signing for a two-year / $10M here, then that's a bit of a dream-scenario. (Fasth would have to be gone as well, though, cost-wise.) But that's a huge stretch and very unlikely to work for Miller. He'd be risking $15M+. His agent would try to have him kidnapped and brainwashed before he could sign such a deal.

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Old
11-21-2013, 05:19 AM
  #18
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1. Dump Hiller
2. Recall Andersen

Or if Hiller still not dumped and we're making the playoffs by the deadline

1. Dump Hiller
2. Ask Timmy if he wants to win another stanley cup
3. give them what they want
4. win
(Andersen as the backup regardless if he plays another NHL game until that)
not sure in which point cap becomes a problem tho

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11-21-2013, 06:14 AM
  #19
GermanRocket7
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Just some mind playing here:

What if we were to deal Hiller AND Andersen AND a 3rd/4th for Miller AND a First/Second?

Buffalo lacks goaltending depth and Enroth most likely will never be more than a journeyman backup on most teams. They get a veteran with a chance to become good again and a definite possibility of re-signing as well as a young goaltender looking to become a viable 1a/1b goaltender within two or three years - pretty much exactly when one would axe Hiller for good.

We, meanwhile, deal away one of our 1a/1b goalies (no loss there immediately) and a promosing prospect with yet another, even better prospect still in the pipeline and get back a great update in net that MIGHT turn out to be re-signable long-term and can be backed up by our other 1a/1b goaltender in Viktor Fasth.

Fasth can take over that job for one more season after this and then Gibson will become the backup for Miller. If Miller leaves after this season, we have Fasth/Gibson as a tandem, which may be rushed a bit, but we also have three (!) first round picks in the upcoming draft (given we're getting back their first, which is more likely to be second, though).

As stated, just some mindplaying here. However, I think this makes sense to an extent, as it would probably help both sides long-term. It might even work out financially that way, too. I'd guess Miller would be willing to re-sign here, especially if we show to be contenders in the future, and he might take some sort of discount for that. Read: 4 years, 5.25M per.

With Teemu retiring, Koivu probably retiring as well and shedding Hiller's salary, we lose more salary than we have to pay on top for re-signing our RFAs and UFAs we want to keep. Additionally, it doesn't seem overly unlikely we might buy out Souray or Allen in the summer and the cap WILL go up for next season as well.

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11-21-2013, 06:36 AM
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I'm not seeing how that helps Anaheim at all to be honest.

Sounds like terrible asset management, especially if Miller walks, and Buffalo is never trading away a top 5 pick for a package of Hiller/Andersen when they are trading Miller as well. They'd be looking to add draft picks, not subtract them.

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11-21-2013, 06:37 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanRocket7 View Post
Just some mind playing here:

What if we were to deal Hiller AND Andersen AND a 3rd/4th for Miller AND a First/Second?
I don't think there would be any interest from the Sabres. They are rebuilding. Trading their first is probably out of the question. But even with it being a 2nd, I don't think it's good value for them. Most Ducks fans think Hiller is worth a 2nd (plus maybe something small), which would put Andersen equal to Miller, since a 3rd/4th is pretty much neglectible. Even with Miller being a UFA, I don't think that works value-wise. I think the Sabres would rather get real value and good picks/prospects for Miller by himself, continue to stack up the pipeline this year like they did in the last draft (two first rounders and five picks in the first two rounds), then look what Matt Hacket does along with Enroth and maybe try their luck with an UFA goalie. Between what they did last year with Pomminville and the draft and this year's Vanek-trade, it looks pretty safe to say that they're rebuilding the old-fashioned way, which means they'll hold on to their picks and only look to add to that.

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Originally Posted by GermanRocket7 View Post
Fasth can take over that [EDIT: backup] job for one more season after this and then Gibson will become the backup for Miller.
Yeah, no chance of that working. We're already paying a lot for our goaltending duo. If we were able to trade for and then re-sign Miller (and there's no way we'd be getting him for <$5M per), Fasth would pretty much have to go. With some big deals already and the yearly salary of Getzlaf/Perry rising, there's no chance we'd be able to afford $8M+ between our goalies. Not that it's a huge issue. An okay backup usually is not too tough to find in free agency. It wouldn't be too important given that Gibson could come in in case he'd actually be needed, in that scenario.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanRocket7 View Post
As stated, just some mindplaying here. However, I think this makes sense to an extent, as it would probably help both sides long-term.
I don't think the Sabres would agree. Their pick could be a franchise cornerstone, and those odds are a lot better than the ones they get with Andersen. Basically, they expect to trade Miller to get at least one additional 1st rounder on their own, not trade the early one they do have away. For a rebuilding team, that's almost always a non-starter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanRocket7 View Post
It might even work out financially that way, too. I'd guess Miller would be willing to re-sign here, especially if we show to be contenders in the future, and he might take some sort of discount for that. Read: 4 years, 5.25M per.
As most big time UFAs, and especially if he's already taking a discount to be in one certain place, he'd rightfully ask for an NTC, and then a four-year deal (taking Miller almost to age 38) could get us into a bit of trouble. It's not impossible, since those would be cheap years from Gibson, and Miller waiving his NTC would become more likely the less he's still needed, so there's some risk control at work. But a lot has to come together for that to work out that way. But I don't feel entirely different about that part, purely Miller-related. I think it would take a different deal to get Buffalo interested, though, for sure.

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Old
11-21-2013, 07:05 AM
  #22
snarktacular
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I don't mind taking a shot at Miller, but it would be only as a rental. I probably don't even offer him an extension.

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11-21-2013, 07:45 AM
  #23
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I don't mind taking a shot at Miller, but it would be only as a rental. I probably don't even offer him an extension.
Well that's just silly. Not saying you go all out to sign him, but to not even try to reel him in for three or four years at a reasonable price would be a bad move. I think there's a decent enough chance he goes for it.

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11-21-2013, 07:53 AM
  #24
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At this moment I'd run to Buffalo with Hiller and a pick.

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11-21-2013, 08:09 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by Gibsons Finest View Post
Well that's just silly. Not saying you go all out to sign him, but to not even try to reel him in for three or four years at a reasonable price would be a bad move. I think there's a decent enough chance he goes for it.
I don't want him for 4 years. 3 is even pushing it. I wouldn't insult him by only offering 2.

That's ignoring the fact that to get a short contract like that it won't be at a "reasonable price."

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