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Game #30 - 12.12.13 - at Nashville - 7:00 PM - FS Southwest - 1310 AM - 96.7 FM

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12-13-2013, 12:08 AM
  #326
RastaRockett
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Originally Posted by Mr Misty View Post

I do not think you are responding in a way that suggests you understand that.

If the stars had a 2nd line that scored, that would not change the matchups that the 1st line gets.
How so? Of course it would. If we had a legit second line teams would be forced to pay greater attention to them and can't always throw a Weber out there every time Benn touches the ice. I'd still take an improved defense over replacing a guy like Eakin at this point though.

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12-13-2013, 12:20 AM
  #327
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Originally Posted by RastaRockett View Post
How so? Of course it would. If we had a legit second line teams would be forced to pay greater attention to them and can't always throw a Weber out there every time Benn touches the ice. I'd still take an improved defense over replacing a guy like Eakin at this point though.
So long as there is a significant difference between the 1st and 2nd lines, it always is the best matchup to put the best shutdown guys against the best scorers. If the first and second lines have about equal threat then it matters much less, but don't think for a second that having Ribeiro or Cammaleri or Vanek on the 2nd line would distract a coach who wanted to match against Benn and Seguin.

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12-13-2013, 12:35 AM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Mr Misty View Post
So long as there is a significant difference between the 1st and 2nd lines, it always is the best matchup to put the best shutdown guys against the best scorers. If the first and second lines have about equal threat then it matters much less, but don't think for a second that having Ribeiro or Cammaleri or Vanek on the 2nd line would distract a coach who wanted to match against Benn and Seguin.
It might be the best match up, but we make it easy for teams to go out of their way to create the matchup at all costs.

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12-13-2013, 12:39 AM
  #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy McClure View Post
It matters in the big picture of team success. Secondary scoring is critical to wining games. We see it now with the top line slumping.
Are.. are we agreeing? I know we normally do...

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12-13-2013, 12:46 AM
  #330
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Originally Posted by RastaRockett View Post
It might be the best match up, but we make it easy for teams to go out of their way to create the matchup at all costs.
I agree, Ruff doesn't seem to be interested in getting easier matchups for the 1st line. But that issue is totally separate from how much scoring the 2nd line provides. The Stars are going to face this strategy over and over because teams are going to focus on the high profile players on the 1st line. Either somebody else needs to score or something creative needs to be done to get different matchups for Benn and Seguin.

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12-13-2013, 12:56 AM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Troy McClure View Post
They're not related.
Not true. If your opponent's second line is killing you a coach will often matchup his best defensemen and/or best defensive forward line out against them rather than the 1st line. Matchups used at the beginning of games is often different from those we see in the 2nd/3rd periods based on game-specific performance.

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12-13-2013, 07:11 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
Not true. If your opponent's second line is killing you a coach will often matchup his best defensemen and/or best defensive forward line out against them rather than the 1st line. Matchups used at the beginning of games is often different from those we see in the 2nd/3rd periods based on game-specific performance.
True. A really good first line can produce no matter what is going on with other lines.

Solid secondary scoring can make it easier on a first line, but no lack of secondary scoring can excuse a top line from producing.

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12-13-2013, 08:30 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Mr Misty View Post
I agree, Ruff doesn't seem to be interested in getting easier matchups for the 1st line. But that issue is totally separate from how much scoring the 2nd line provides. The Stars are going to face this strategy over and over because teams are going to focus on the high profile players on the 1st line. Either somebody else needs to score or something creative needs to be done to get different matchups for Benn and Seguin.
off topic..We got a 6 point game tomorro Ammer..Not feeling confident at all..Up the Hammers

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12-13-2013, 08:32 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Troy McClure View Post
True. A really good first line can produce no matter what is going on with other lines.

Solid secondary scoring can make it easier on a first line, but no lack of secondary scoring can excuse a top line from producing.
They wont carry the team night in/night out. It's just simply not going to happen.

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12-13-2013, 08:33 AM
  #335
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Can somebody answer this- Is Whitney whashed up? He had a very decent last season..Know he is 41 but wouldnt think he would decline so rapidly..Mind you- Selanne is pretty much finished too..

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12-13-2013, 09:18 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by RastaRockett View Post
They wont carry the team night in/night out. It's just simply not going to happen.
Of course not, but there is a difference between talking about winning and losing and talking about a player or a line's production.

The first line needs to be able to produce fist line numbers no matter what the other lines are doing. That secondary scoring is important because there will certainly be nights when the first line doesn't score.

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12-13-2013, 11:15 AM
  #337
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I think it is worth noting that whoever is on the ice against Jamie Benn and his line likely get more help from their defensemen, both offensively and defensively.

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12-13-2013, 11:16 AM
  #338
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Originally Posted by joescores View Post
off topic..We got a 6 point game tomorro Ammer..Not feeling confident at all..Up the Hammers
Whatever happens, nobody can complain about Sam playing Nolan this time

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Originally Posted by joescores View Post
Can somebody answer this- Is Whitney whashed up? He had a very decent last season..Know he is 41 but wouldnt think he would decline so rapidly..Mind you- Selanne is pretty much finished too..
I'm afraid so. His shots have been weak or missed the net recently, and he isn't doing much playmaking anymore either.

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12-13-2013, 11:35 AM
  #339
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Originally Posted by txomisc View Post
I think it is worth noting that whoever is on the ice against Jamie Benn and his line likely get more help from their defensemen, both offensively and defensively.
Totally true, but at the same time, Jamie's got to be able to play through it. Our best player who we all penciled in for 30goals this year isn't even on pace for 20 right now.

I've had concerns in the past that he might never be a 30goal player, and it's starting to look more and more likely. He's 24, right in that statistical prime for goal scoring. Obviously he's snakebitten right now, but it's starting to worry me a bit.

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12-13-2013, 12:13 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by MetalGodAOD View Post
Totally true, but at the same time, Jamie's got to be able to play through it. Our best player who we all penciled in for 30goals this year isn't even on pace for 20 right now.

I've had concerns in the past that he might never be a 30goal player, and it's starting to look more and more likely. He's 24, right in that statistical prime for goal scoring. Obviously he's snakebitten right now, but it's starting to worry me a bit.
Yeah its an added hindrance but you'd like to see him thrive despite it. I think your post on the powerplay also can explain alot of Jamie Benns problems right now. Basically this team sucks at cycling the puck and can't seem to score unless its off the rush. They don't win enough puck battles on the boards or in front of the net so they are basically 1 and done on most nights. Against weaker teams the pure skill and speed comes out and they look like world beaters.

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12-13-2013, 12:14 PM
  #341
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It's not a concern. He's shooting 6 percent. He leads the team in shots and it's not close. Normalize that to his career shooting percentage (around 11.5 percent) and he'd have 12 goals. Normalize Seguin's shooting percentage to his career average and he'd have less than Benn. I don't blame everything on bad luck, but this is an instance where you can attribute it to bad luck.

Seriously people, we're 2 games removed from the 1st line absolutely dominating the game. In the meantime they've played the best team in the NHL and been hard matched against either the best or one of the best Dmen in the league.

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12-13-2013, 12:19 PM
  #342
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It's not a concern. He's shooting 6 percent. He leads the team in shots and it's not close. Normalize that to his career shooting percentage (around 11.5 percent) and he'd have 12 goals. Normalize Seguin's shooting percentage to his career average and he'd have less than Benn. I don't blame everything on bad luck, but this is an instance where you can attribute it to bad luck.

Seriously people, we're 2 games removed from the 1st line absolutely dominating the game. In the meantime they've played the best team in the NHL and been hard matched against either the best or one of the best Dmen in the league.
Ok but how much stock do you put in from a 1st line dominating a game once in awhile? They've done it a few times and have streaks of several unproductive games.

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12-13-2013, 02:50 PM
  #343
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I think it is worth noting that whoever is on the ice against Jamie Benn and his line likely get more help from their defensemen, both offensively and defensively.
Oh, absolutely.

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12-13-2013, 08:02 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by MetalGodAOD View Post
Totally true, but at the same time, Jamie's got to be able to play through it. Our best player who we all penciled in for 30goals this year isn't even on pace for 20 right now.

I've had concerns in the past that he might never be a 30goal player, and it's starting to look more and more likely. He's 24, right in that statistical prime for goal scoring. Obviously he's snakebitten right now, but it's starting to worry me a bit.
I'm not overly concerned about him. I think he'll score 30 a few times but this is the case of a player who is more of a playmaker being held to a goal scorer's standard. He needs to score goals but for the last three seasons his game has leaned heavily toward passing and setting others up.

Add to that his poor shooting percentage this year and I'm not too worried. Even if Benn ends up staying in the 20's over the next few years he will probably be a 70 point player with a ton of assists setting up Seguin, who is a threat to score 40.

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