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Edm- NYR

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Old
12-12-2013, 01:06 PM
  #1
bernmeister
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Edm- NYR

Rangers have Staal concussion, Callahan injury. Reduces immediate options.

See the following as possible, given Oiler plunge.

Yakupov + J. Schultz
for
MDZ + Girardi + Brassard + rights to Adam Tambellini

MDZ certain to go beyond this year, Tambellini hard working W prospect last year's 3 round, 3 years away. During duration, interesting about how Oiler fans will treat him given distregard for his father in front office role!

Brassard a good piece for now, inconsistent (as has been 90% of rangers thus far this season), but the record shows he was very, very good filing in for Stepan late last year. If you choice is not made to extend, you can still flip before March for a decent chip.

Girardi, ditto. Would return a 1st or something interesting from Toronto.

--------

J. Schultz is not the hot shot wonderkind who joined Edmonton, but as righty playmaker, interests NYR as worthwhile project. Still has potential but needs to learn defense. NY can PP him and throw sheltered minutes while his D is created/rehabbed.

Yak is Yak. Lot possibilities. Lot of risk. Rangers need a sniper, will pay for the risk at the right price. Edm has enough scoring/snipers.


See it as Rangers get 2 guys worth the risk, no guarantees.
Oilers get MDZ, likely keeper, and Tambellini, a good prospect at best or decent pick value at worst.
Plus Girardi + Brassard, should get 2 1sts if traded, but Oil will likely try to keep.

Value?

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Old
12-12-2013, 01:07 PM
  #2
jw2
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HORRIBLE for Edmonton.

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Old
12-12-2013, 01:10 PM
  #3
JaeTM
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Yeah, that's pretty bad for EDM.

Girardi won't be traded for any young player that has a ton of potential. Not as a pending UFA. It's as simple as that.

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Old
12-12-2013, 01:16 PM
  #4
bernmeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jw2 View Post
HORRIBLE for Edmonton.
Your entitled to your opinion, and I mean this in courteous way; how so?
How much do you think Yak is worth?

Sure, he was 1st overall, but has said he doesn't wanna play D, etc.

MDZ was 20th overall, and when not playing off to other side, looks fine.
He is a certain NHL player going forward, you get balance of contract out of him.

As said, Brassard + Girardi are EACH worth a 1st.
You get chance to kick the tires, then decide your play.

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Old
12-12-2013, 01:16 PM
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Not a good deal for the Oilers at all.

That said, I will be checking back to see how far south this thread goes.

should be epic

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Old
12-12-2013, 01:21 PM
  #6
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Old
12-12-2013, 01:28 PM
  #7
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What a LOL proposal.

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Old
12-12-2013, 01:28 PM
  #8
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I'll decline this trade simply because we don't want any people with the name Tambellini in the organization.

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Old
12-12-2013, 01:31 PM
  #9
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Making a J. Schultz -> MDZ swap isn't the worst idea in a vacuum, but it doesn't work for the Oilers for a multitude of reasons.

1) We're absolutely overloaded with left-handed defensemen, both prospects and roster players. Justin Schultz is one of the few right-shooting d-men we have.

2) Edmonton, as a city, has struggled to attract UFA's for a while. There's a lot of reasons around this, some of which are never going to change, but the Oilers' reputation of mistreating players is one that probably played a big role as recently as a few years ago.

The whole drama around J. Schultz deciding where to sign and finally narrowing it down to Edmonton was a step in the right direction - I believe that trading him less than 82 games after he signed with the Oilers would have very bad optics, regardless of whether it's good asset management.

3) I'll admit this is an area that I don't understand very well, as I don't really grasp how bonuses are calculated, but I believe that J. Schultz currently has a lower cap hit than MDZ - and let's be honest, he's unlikely to hit all of his performance bonuses this season. Granted, both are RFA's, so this might not be relevant after this season, but I'd rather go for the cheaper option in this case.

After that, the trade turns into Yakupov for Girardi, Brassard, and Tambellini. Past associations with our former GM aside, Tambellini has next to no real value in the context of this deal - he's a throw in at best. This isn't to disparage the player, but honestly, the Oilers have plenty of hard-working long shots in the pipeline, I don't see his inclusion in this deal really mattering. This would leave the Oilers trading a recent first overall (one who's struggling this season, granted) for an upcoming UFA and a decent, but not game-breaking RFA, which is horrendous asset management. Even in the theory that you could then flip those players for middling high first round picks, you'd be able to get a much, much higher return from Yakupov alone.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have either of Girardi or Brassard on the Oilers, but I'd rather take a gamble at Girardi in free agency (if he'd re-sign with us in this hypothetical, he'd probably be willing to sign as a UFA) than give up high-value assets.

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Old
12-12-2013, 01:51 PM
  #10
jw2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Your entitled to your opinion, and I mean this in courteous way; how so?
How much do you think Yak is worth?

Sure, he was 1st overall, but has said he doesn't wanna play D, etc.

MDZ was 20th overall, and when not playing off to other side, looks fine.
He is a certain NHL player going forward, you get balance of contract out of him.

As said, Brassard + Girardi are EACH worth a 1st.
You get chance to kick the tires, then decide your play.
Trade isnt close to even elaborate.

Equivalent would be Hemsky for McDoangh(Rangers pay 50%), Kreider, 1st

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Old
12-12-2013, 01:58 PM
  #11
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I'll do that only if New York also agrees to retain 1/2 of Hopkins' Hall's and Eberle's salaries. Saves us 9M per season in cap space. Has to be worth it, right?

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Old
12-12-2013, 02:02 PM
  #12
CM Lundqvist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jw2 View Post
Trade isnt close to even elaborate.

Equivalent would be Hemsky for McDoangh(Rangers pay 50%), Kreider, 1st
No, it's not even close to that bad.

Get real.

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Old
12-12-2013, 02:05 PM
  #13
5RingsAndABeer
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Horrible for Edmonton. I know it's an unpopular opinion on this forum here but Yakupov is worth more than that alone.

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Old
12-12-2013, 02:12 PM
  #14
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The only NYR worth squat in a trade is MacDonah.

The only trade the NYR can make is a bottom 6 deal. And even that is gonna have implications. I can see the NYR trading for Jordin Tootoo

Tootoo
for
Puliot

Saves Det some salary. That is their incentive.

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Old
12-12-2013, 02:13 PM
  #15
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take out everything you mentioned and jsut do:

yak + schultz for mcdonaugh

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Old
12-12-2013, 02:16 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by bestmyfeeling View Post
take out everything you mentioned and jsut do:

yak + schultz for mcdonaugh
Rangers say no

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Old
12-12-2013, 02:21 PM
  #17
CM Lundqvist
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Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
Horrible for Edmonton. I know it's an unpopular opinion on this forum here but Yakupov is worth more than that alone.
Maybe to you, yeah.

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Old
12-12-2013, 02:25 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Your entitled to your opinion, and I mean this in courteous way; how so?
How much do you think Yak is worth?

Sure, he was 1st overall, but has said he doesn't wanna play D, etc.

MDZ was 20th overall, and when not playing off to other side, looks fine.
He is a certain NHL player going forward, you get balance of contract out of him.

As said, Brassard + Girardi are EACH worth a 1st.
You get chance to kick the tires, then decide your play.

He said he doesn't want to be a 3rd line grinder. Just because some reporters are too stupid to figure out what he meant doesn't make that true

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Old
12-12-2013, 02:29 PM
  #19
CM Lundqvist
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Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post

He said he doesn't want to be a 3rd line grinder. Just because some reporters are too stupid to figure out what he meant doesn't make that true
Kreider didn't want to be in a bottom-6 checking role either. He got sent down this year after camp and since being recalled he's been one of our best players.

However, he never said a damn thing about it. Not good for the image at all.

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Old
12-12-2013, 03:05 PM
  #20
bernmeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamondillium View Post
I'll decline this trade simply because we don't want any people with the name Tambellini in the organization.
Fair enough.
Actually thought you guys would want to make a voodoo doll from a lock of his hair, or something.

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Old
12-12-2013, 03:36 PM
  #21
bernmeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yak City View Post
...
Making a J. Schultz -> MDZ swap isn't the worst idea in a vacuum, but it doesn't work for the Oilers for a multitude of reasons.

Thanks for thoughtful, extensive reply.

Quote:
1) We're absolutely overloaded with left-handed defensemen, both prospects and roster players. Justin Schultz is one of the few right-shooting d-men we have.
Welcome to the club.
Didn't realize the disproportion was as out of whack as you indicate.
Fair enough.

I usually would go with talent more than complementary aspects, but to each his own. Also, you would be getting Girardi who is less than he was, but still a top pair righty for many if not most clubs.

While it would be your call, it is not inconceivable you could do Girardi + X for Franson + Y, which gives you a righty under contract, not as good defensively, but defrays a bit from loss of J Schultz.

Rangers can't do this because they will need all of cap to pay guys they are extending (roughly, Richards buy out offsets Hank).

So they can't match the 5mil Girardi will get on the market.
There is no reason to think that Girardi will not at least seriously consider to sign if you demonstrate coughing up big enough bucks. If not, as I said, Toronto would likely be receptive for reasonable value less he go elsewhere.

Quote:
2) Edmonton, as a city, has struggled to attract UFA's for a while. There's a lot of reasons around this, some of which are never going to change, but the Oilers' reputation of mistreating players is one that probably played a big role as recently as a few years ago.

The whole drama around J. Schultz deciding where to sign and finally narrowing it down to Edmonton was a step in the right direction - I believe that trading him less than 82 games after he signed with the Oilers would have very bad optics, regardless of whether it's good asset management.
As to attracting FAs that is on you, but believe your green is as good as others, and there is a certain nucleus to attract. So it is worthwhile. The key however, is to remember to do your biz quickly or get off the proverbial pot. Offer Danny Boy real money, but tell him, not for nothing, he's on the clock. If he takes it, your in, if not, move to Maple Leafs as indicated.
You are still walking away with assets.

As to JSchultz choosing Edmonton, I get you may want to reward him with some loyalty. That is a fair and legit position. However, his game has gone south. Somewhere about a month ago, one of your posters called him a turnover machine, or words to that effect.

On NYR, used chiefly on PP, and with correct complement, damages as to same is minimized.

The offer is on the table now for what I feel is fair package deal.
If you wanna retain JS to see if he turns it around, that;s fair on your part.

Quote:
3) I'll admit this is an area that I don't understand very well, as I don't really grasp how bonuses are calculated, but I believe that J. Schultz currently has a lower cap hit than MDZ - and let's be honest, he's unlikely to hit all of his performance bonuses this season. Granted, both are RFA's, so this might not be relevant after this season, but I'd rather go for the cheaper option in this case.
considered cap here to be not big enough dif to = obstacle

Quote:
After that, the trade turns into Yakupov for Girardi, Brassard, and Tambellini. Past associations with our former GM aside, Tambellini has next to no real value in the context of this deal - he's a throw in at best. This isn't to disparage the player, but honestly, the Oilers have plenty of hard-working long shots in the pipeline, I don't see his inclusion in this deal really mattering. This would leave the Oilers trading a recent first overall (one who's struggling this season, granted) for an upcoming UFA and a decent, but not game-breaking RFA, which is horrendous asset management.
Actually considered Tambellini to be unflashy but legit downpayment vs. the presently distressed Schultz.

So thinking MDZ, Girardi, Brassard, = min 3 firsts = more than fair for Yak as is.

Quote:
Even in the theory that you could then flip those players for middling high first round picks,...
I didn't say middling high, but Giarardi is righty D, in short supply. Brassard is a 2c, who demonstrated 1c fill in, thus ditto.
MDZ has not always played LD, and when RD does not look good; but this year and also last when Staal out with concussion, looked good at LD. He was a 20th overall, and his value, while not ridiculous, is worth more, since he has proven he can and will have NHL career.

Quote:
....you'd be able to get a much, much higher return from Yakupov alone.
This I SERIOUSLY doubt at present.
That was the hype a month or two before the season, but it has been downhill since and while he could rebound, and rebound quickly in the right environment with the right chemistry, that is not happening any time soon in Edm in current construct.

Don't see any big offers for him.

Quote:
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have either of Girardi or Brassard on the Oilers, but I'd rather take a gamble at Girardi in free agency ....
Fair enough.

Quote:
... (if he'd re-sign with us in this hypothetical, he'd probably be willing to sign as a UFA) than give up high-value assets.
That is not such an automatic reason to assume such.

If anything, the best chance you have for a guy like Girardi is to give him 3-4 weeks to say let's both kick the tires and see what we think, we are to offer you ______ number.

He will respond accordingly to that number and his experience, but you had the chance to make that impression.

But if you don't do this deal, and there is no such experience, then odds of a cold signing are less likely, higher odds.

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Old
12-12-2013, 03:38 PM
  #22
bernmeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jw2 View Post
Trade isnt close to even elaborate.

Equivalent would be Hemsky for McDoangh(Rangers pay 50%), Kreider, 1st
Thanks for the feedback, which I asked for.

We are miles apart, obviously, on present value of Yak.

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Old
12-12-2013, 03:39 PM
  #23
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I'm impressed these guys can know so much about the Ranger's roster without knowing McDonagh's name.

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Old
12-12-2013, 03:41 PM
  #24
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Didn't even have to read the OP's name to know whose thread this was.

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Old
12-12-2013, 03:45 PM
  #25
bernmeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post

He said he doesn't want to be a 3rd line grinder. Just because some reporters are too stupid to figure out what he meant doesn't make that true
I appreciate this clarification.
I have no prob with him not wanting to be 3rd grinder and focusing principally on job as sniper IF he plays D (not ridiculous Torts constant shot blocking nonsense, but regular D) and pays his dues.

That said, he is obviously not a fit at present as you guys change from one dimensional to complete team.

His value is proof he is and can score goals.
Right now he is not getting that opportunity any time soon.
Why not move for realistic value?

And yeah, I'm not saying I've seen EVERY offer, but my uptake is you are being lowballed. Don't consider my value, worth excess of 3 firsts, and you throw in JS and I throw in a prospect, to be lowballing.

Til tomorrow -

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