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Political Discussion - "on-topic & unmoderated" Rated PG13, unmoderated but threads must stay on topic - that means you can flame each other all you want as long as it's legal

Do you support affirmative action or not?

View Poll Results: Do you support affirmative action?
Yes 25 37.31%
No 42 62.69%
Voters: 67. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-15-2013, 12:33 AM
  #101
MarkGio
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This thread lacks informed opinions other than Wetcoaster's, which appears to be mainly legal. Why not look at facts?

Are white people advantaged? Do people treat members of another race differently? Does Affirmative action work do alleviate this? Do managers hire based purely on merit?

I've read comments here that "in principle" AA is that... and conceptually AA is this... but nobody seems to know jack **** about the subject. I wouldn't hire any of you.

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12-15-2013, 12:39 AM
  #102
PredsV82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
This thread lacks informed opinions other than Wetcoaster's, which appears to be mainly legal. Why not look at facts?

Are white people advantaged? Do people treat members of another race differently? Does Affirmative action work do alleviate this? Do managers hire based purely on merit?

I've read comments here that "in principle" AA is that... and conceptually AA is this... but nobody seems to know jack **** about the subject. I wouldn't hire any of you.
I gave a specific, real world example… does that count in your book?

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12-15-2013, 12:46 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
I gave a specific, real world example… does that count in your book?
Sorry. You're example might have been true, although impossible to verify, its still not a fact or even representative. I'm sure anyone can share horror stories around a campfire. Sometimes even an experienced person might have a misconception.

I'm just surprised nobody has based their opinion on the research. I mean, do people think Affirmative Action was introduced because "conceptually" it seemed like a good idea? Are policy makers not mostly white?

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12-15-2013, 12:53 AM
  #104
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Ah yes, I see the condescending, holier than thou posts are starting to make an appearance. Those are really riveting and constructive posts.

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12-15-2013, 01:08 AM
  #105
PredsV82
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
Sorry. You're example might have been true, although impossible to verify, its still not a fact or even representative. I'm sure anyone can share horror stories around a campfire. Sometimes even an experienced person might have a misconception.

I'm just surprised nobody has based their opinion on the research. I mean, do people think Affirmative Action was introduced because "conceptually" it seemed like a good idea? Are policy makers not mostly white?
what was there to research? do you think institutions were going to admit they were denying admission based on race? It was a pretty clear case of res ipsa loquitur

and those "mostly white" policy makers managed to pass the Civil Rights Act… and Im fairly sure that was more "conceptual" than "empiric"


your premise is idiotic.

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12-15-2013, 01:19 AM
  #106
MarkGio
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
what was there to research? do you think institutions were going to admit they were denying admission based on race? It was a pretty clear case of res ipsa loquitur

and those "mostly white" policy makers managed to pass the Civil Rights Act… and Im fairly sure that was more "conceptual" than "empiric"


your premise is idiotic.
I see. Maybe you think your little anecdote constitutes research, but its not. It was a clear case of internet posting, nothing more.

Quote:
... but instead of being drummed out of school like my friend, she was given a special "comprehensive, oral exam" by the professors and pronounced to have passed. (and no, it wasn't THAT kind of oral exam…)
Idiotic, you say?

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12-15-2013, 01:24 AM
  #107
PredsV82
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
I see. Maybe you think your little anecdote constitutes research, but its not. It was a clear case of internet posting, nothing more.



Idiotic, you say?
do you have a point or not? (other than trying to somehow be smug)

I specifically stated that my anecdote was… an anecdote…


but since you're the brilliant one, why don't you explain what "research" might have proven or disproven the need for Affirmative Action??

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12-15-2013, 01:52 AM
  #108
Doppler Drift
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Originally Posted by Tommy Barrasso View Post
Ah yes, I see the condescending, holier than thou posts are starting to make an appearance. Those are really riveting and constructive posts.

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12-15-2013, 01:56 AM
  #109
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I support anything that takes the white man down a peg.

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12-15-2013, 05:51 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
This thread lacks informed opinions other than Wetcoaster's, which appears to be mainly legal. Why not look at facts?
Clearly you failed to read the entire thread. I asked a valid question, and one clown started to see words where they didn't exist. No one has yet to answer the question.

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12-15-2013, 09:09 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Doppler Drift View Post
All i'm saying is that before Gio showed up, we were getting good, civil arguments on both sides. There's no way you can look at his posts and not see him as **** disturbing.

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12-15-2013, 09:20 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
I see. Maybe you think your little anecdote constitutes research, but its not. It was a clear case of internet posting, nothing more.
You're so condescending and arrogant it's hilarious.

"Hmmm I got ripped apart so I'll just fall back to what everyone else did poorly!"

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12-15-2013, 10:28 AM
  #113
Ser Jorah Mormont
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Originally Posted by KesselBuiltMyHotrod View Post
I support anything that takes the white man down a peg.
Would you support anything that takes down black men a peg in majority black nations and asian men in majority asian nations, or is it just white men in majority white nations?

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12-15-2013, 10:33 AM
  #114
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12-15-2013, 10:40 AM
  #115
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I support anything that takes the white man down a peg.
This should end well.

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12-15-2013, 11:11 AM
  #116
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Skip to :10 if you want to save a few seconds.

Aussie19 might actually be Alexander Downer.

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12-15-2013, 11:51 AM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KesselBuiltMyHotrod View Post
I support anything that takes the white man down a peg.
Yeah. How dare he be born that colour.

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12-15-2013, 11:59 AM
  #118
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Apparently it was so good I had to say it twice.

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12-15-2013, 05:26 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
This thread lacks informed opinions other than Wetcoaster's, which appears to be mainly legal. Why not look at facts?

Are white people advantaged? Do people treat members of another race differently? Does Affirmative action work do alleviate this? Do managers hire based purely on merit?

I've read comments here that "in principle" AA is that... and conceptually AA is this... but nobody seems to know jack **** about the subject. I wouldn't hire any of you.
The entrenchment of affirmative action in the Charter and the federal Employment Equity Act were conscious policy decisions based upon research and evaluation of other jurisdictions such as the United States. A decision was made specifically to reject the US approach. The in-depth study of the issues inherent in the subjects and policy choices preceded the legislation.

Section 15 (2) of the Charter was included to make that abundantly clear to future courts that affirmative action that met the conditions set out therein were considered to be within Canada's definition of equal rights and that claims such as reverse discrimination were not legally viable in this country.

And in the case of employment equity (our version of affirmative action in the area of employment) the result of the findings of the 1984 Royal Commission on Equality in Employment, chaired by Madame Justice Rosalie Abella after extensive hearings and submission of numerous briefs.
http://epe.lac-bac.gc.ca/100/200/301...la1984-eng.htm

Here is a select bibliography of submissions and materials considered by the Abella Commission:
http://epe.lac-bac.gc.ca/100/200/301...-part3-eng.pdf

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12-15-2013, 06:50 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
Thanks for making your first paragraph so stupid that I knew reading the rest of your post would be a colossal waste of time.
The user name "Kevin Malone" next to the post wasn't an obvious enough clue?

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12-15-2013, 11:15 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyacheslav View Post
Anyone have any objections to AA besides color? It seems like you guy want to throw out the baby with the bathwater just because you think racial equality has been achieved. What about economic AA? AA based on taking people in the lowest classes and giving them an opportunity to actually contribute something to society instead of just being more propaganda for your anti welfare arguments?
I am much more sympathetic to economic AA.

Racial AA is just racist ******** at this point. I'm glad it existed and it did wonders to integrate a number of areas, but I'd like to see it done away with.

Economic AA is the area I'd like to see promoted. I used to be against it just due to being against racial AA but I think it is absolutely something I'd support.

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12-15-2013, 11:17 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
The problem with your Davinci/Edison comment is we have no idea how many George Washington Carvers and Madam Curies the world was deprived of due to prejudice. Its retarded to think there weren't intelligent minorities until the 20th century....


As I said way back at the first of this thread, AA, at the time it was conceived, was absolutely necessary to allow minorities to get the opportunity to prove that they can function as professionals as well as whites. Once society got used to minority physicians, judges, professors, etc., I think AA had outlived its usefulness. When it changed from helping equally (or better) qualified minorities to get in the door and became a quota system where the goal was to guarantee that the makeup of a given profession matched the population, regardless of whether the minorities were qualified or not, it was time for AA to go
Agreed completely.

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12-15-2013, 11:22 PM
  #123
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Racism is dead. If they would just stop shooting each other and doing drugs the majority of them would be in the middle class already. We gave them their chance. Time for them to put on those boots and start marching to the promised land under their own power.

Unless you think they're inherently inferior.

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12-15-2013, 11:24 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
Racism is dead. If they would just stop shooting each other and doing drugs the majority of them would be in the middle class already. We gave them their chance. Time for them to put on those boots and start marching to the promised land under their own power.

Unless you think they're inherently inferior.
Racism isn't dead. It's alive and well in affirmative action plans.

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12-15-2013, 11:36 PM
  #125
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No, and in fact it does a hugely insulting disservice to the many qualified applicants out there from the groups benefiting to the practice by insinuating that they are incapable of achieving success independently without external assistance. Which is racist/sexist/discriminatory in and of itself.

Otherwise I want to start seeing some white running backs and black kickers in football, for example.

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