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Oiler article in the Toronto Sun

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Old
09-30-2003, 06:59 PM
  #26
HockeySense85
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Whats the point?

What is the point?

Well the point is there is some kind of disagreement between Lowe and Comrie. We do not know if this is monetary or other. We do NOT know if Lowe is holding up a deal, or Comrie is holding up a deal.

The point is, we have a good player that Lowe is not willing to overpay.

The point is, we have a very valuable player that Lowe is not going to give away for less than fair value.

The point is, the outcome of this deal has an impact on other deals (Havlat and Gaborik) now, and in the future (Hemsky etc).

The point is, the fans can get as antsy as they want, but the Oilers haven't played a single regular season game. Lowe can put on whatever poker face he wants and the same goes for Comrie. The real chips aren't on the table till opening night.

The point is, trading Comrie only makes sense if the return is in tune with the current plan. Since it seems that plan is to have the key young players (Comrie, Hemsky, Isbister, York, Brewer, Semenov, Horcoff, Torres/Rita/Chimera) start to peak at the same time in about 2 or 3 years, while holding on to some vets (Moreau, Laraque, hopefully Smyth) trading for more prospects doesn't fit this plan.

The point is, Lowe will do whatever he believes is best for the team. If that means making Comrie wet his pants and sign and play for the Oilers, thats what will happen. If that means asking for the sky in trade and only making a trade when someone gives the sky, than thats what he needs to do.


I refuse to blame Lowe, and I refuse to blame Comrie. I think this is really a case where the fans need to be patient, and welcome Comrie back if he does sign.

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09-30-2003, 07:10 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omar
It's not obvious what "point" Kevin Lowe is trying to make regarding Mike Comrie but it is true that he has decided to gamble the playoff fate of the team to prove that point.

Someone tell me what "point" he is trying to make.

Kevin Lowe's job is to make as much money for the Oilers owners as possible because that is the point of a business - to make money.
The further the Oilers go in the playoffs the more money they make, or lose less. By not signing Comrie, Lowe is automatically $4.55 M ahead of last year. This is great as long as the Oilers make the playoffs and Lowe will be considered a financial genius. In this scenario the "point" is "Mike, we don't need you"

Assume that things aren't going well standing wise but the accountants determine that the Oilers are still better off financially without Comrie. The point becomes "Mike we don't need you and $crew the fans".

The fans attack the accountants, Lowe relents and signs Comrie. Unfortuanately we are now in a must win scenario but it takes Comrie 6 weeks to find his legs, the Oilers miss the playoffs and Lowe loses more than the $4.55M he started with. In this scenario the point according to Lowe is "Mike, we missed the playoffs, it's all your fault, the fans hate you and your father and I'm organizing a boycott of the Brick"

Or perhaps after the accountants are attacked and Comrie is signed he is traded. Unfortunately Comrie's trade value is low because everyone knows he doesn't want to play here, at least according to all reports published in the Sun for the last 6 months. Lowe trades him for 3 prospects who as a group make more than Comrie, they play like Dan Cleary, the Oilers miss the playoffs and lose even more money. The point is "Mike, if you had only signed the low-ball qualifying offer I would have my job"

Or maybe the real point being made by Lowe is "I'm not bitter about having played when salaries were low. I'm a bigger SOB than you are and I'm going to prove it no matter what"

I ask you again, "What is the point"
Ever since Lowe took over as GM, he tried to build his team and he's done a good job doing it...He can't dip into the FA market, so he had to build the team by trading for prospect and drafting...

Unless you've been in a cave somewhere, you would know that Lowe has been one of the biggest voice is saying that the system doesn't work and salaries are out of control...As you said, Lowe's job is to make the owners money...He has 37 owners' best interest in his hands...

The point you ask?

Lowe is sending a message that he's the boss and he now has the leverage in these negotiations...He is using the CBA to his advantage just like Comrie did a few years back...Lowe is offering the qualifying offer which does not consider bonuses...Keep in mind that Comrie is coming off first NHL contract, he has no arbitration rights...

Lowe is making a point just like John Muckler and Doug Risebrough are: He's the boss and he decides who gets how much $$..If these younger players get the contracts they want now, where will it end...I remember the Senators caving to Ya$hin's demands everytime they tried to negotiate a new deal or everytime Yashin held out and they end up trading him (as it turned out, in the Sens best interest)...

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Old
09-30-2003, 07:19 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momentai
Having just an "adequate replacement" doesn't help us out long-term either. If we're just getting 70 cents on the dollar for Comrie, then it isn't worth doing no matter what the cost IMO.

By the same token, how is getting a poor return for Comrie helping us out long-term. If we do make the playoffs, and those replacements are a bunch of prospects/third liners... I think it hurts more than it helps.
70 cents is better than 0 in my opinion...I guess I just don't understand your idea of long-term...I don't know what Comrie's trade value is today...You think it will increase if he sits a year...I doubt it...So how does that help the Oilers in the long term...They won't get his services this season and will get less for him in a year? Doesn't make any sense...

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Old
09-30-2003, 09:19 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Dr. van Nostrin
The point you ask?

Lowe is sending a message that he's the boss and he now has the leverage in these negotiations...He is using the CBA to his advantage just like Comrie did a few years back...Lowe is offering the qualifying offer which does not consider bonuses...Keep in mind that Comrie is coming off first NHL contract, he has no arbitration rights...

Lowe is making a point just like John Muckler and Doug Risebrough are: He's the boss and he decides who gets how much $$..If these younger players get the contracts they want now, where will it end...I remember the Senators caving to Ya$hin's demands everytime they tried to negotiate a new deal or everytime Yashin held out and they end up trading him (as it turned out, in the Sens best interest)...
The fact that Comrie has no arbitration rights doesn't mean he has no leverage. Apparently he's been paid ~ $8.5M over the last 3 years and to make matters worse his parent is filthy rich. Lowe doesn't have lack of money for leverage.

Given the 10 shots the Oilers took on the Canucks tonight it's going to be hard to argue to anyone that he doesn't need Comrie's offence. My guess is Comrie has the leverage, not Lowe. Several more games of 2 or fewer goals and that leverage will increase.

If as you say this is about who's the boss I suggest that the man who thinks he's boss (Lowe) hurry up and do something. I won't hold my breath, this GM seems to be willing to pay a 3rd line checker more than a 1st line center.

 
Old
09-30-2003, 09:26 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omar
The fact that Comrie has no arbitration rights doesn't mean he has no leverage. Apparently he's been paid ~ $8.5M over the last 3 years and to make matters worse his parent is filthy rich. Lowe doesn't have lack of money for leverage.

Given the 10 shots the Oilers took on the Canucks tonight it's going to be hard to argue to anyone that he doesn't need Comrie's offence. My guess is Comrie has the leverage, not Lowe. Several more games of 2 or fewer goals and that leverage will increase.

If as you say this is about who's the boss I suggest that the man who thinks he's boss (Lowe) hurry up and do something. I won't hold my breath, this GM seems to be willing to pay a 3rd line checker more than a 1st line center.
Do you honestly think for a second that if Lowe offered Comrie a base of 1.33 (Moreau avg salary in his deal) that there wouldn't be bonuses in there!!??!!??!!??!!??!!?? I mean C'mon - Lowe would sign him at 2 with no bonuses. But I think Comrie is after a deal like he had last year.

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Old
10-01-2003, 03:53 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omar
The fact that Comrie has no arbitration rights doesn't mean he has no leverage. Apparently he's been paid ~ $8.5M over the last 3 years and to make matters worse his parent is filthy rich. Lowe doesn't have lack of money for leverage.

Given the 10 shots the Oilers took on the Canucks tonight it's going to be hard to argue to anyone that he doesn't need Comrie's offence. My guess is Comrie has the leverage, not Lowe. Several more games of 2 or fewer goals and that leverage will increase.

If as you say this is about who's the boss I suggest that the man who thinks he's boss (Lowe) hurry up and do something. I won't hold my breath, this GM seems to be willing to pay a 3rd line checker more than a 1st line center.
The 10 shots on goal vs the nux is irrelevant...It's still preseason...Smyth, Brewer, Dvorak were not in the lineup...Lowe still has all the leverage...

I agree with you on one thing: If the Oilers are 2-11 in November,yeah, Comrie will have some leverage...

You can't compare Moreau with Comrie...Moreau alot more years experience in this league than Comrie...Moreau has signed a four year contract that will pay him less money has the years go by...The problem today and what is killing the NHL is too much money too soon to younger players...Lowe trying to change that....Whether it's a lost cause, we'll have to wait and see...

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10-01-2003, 06:08 AM
  #32
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we all keep talking about leverage like or views will force lowe one way or the other. This is pure nonsense. Lowe has already shown that he will do whatever he feels is right for the organization. The weight, hammer, guerin, carter, and janne deals were done without an ounce of regret. They were done to ensure the survival of the oilers.

In this case, comrie has absolutely no leverage. The owners like kevin too much to able to exert any pressure on him. If he tells them that comrie will sit until he signs the qualifying offer, then comrie will sit, even if the oilers are 0-80 this year.

Comrie does not deserve a nickle more than the qualifying offer because the rules are clearly stated in the current cba. The only way he gets more is if he gives up something like a 3 year deal which avoids arbitration in the third year. This is lowe's stance and comrie had better get used to sitting because he will not be able to pressure lowe into anything.

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10-01-2003, 07:26 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by thor dyck
we all keep talking about leverage like or views will force lowe one way or the other. This is pure nonsense. Lowe has already shown that he will do whatever he feels is right for the organization. The weight, hammer, guerin, carter, and janne deals were done without an ounce of regret. They were done to ensure the survival of the oilers.
I think there's more than an ounce of regret, or maybe you forget why Comrie got the deal he did. After losing Weight, small market that we are, a replacement was required and that replacement, Comrie, had leverage.

 
Old
10-01-2003, 07:33 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omar
I think there's more than an ounce of regret, or maybe you forget why Comrie got the deal he did. After losing Weight, small market that we are, a replacement was required and that replacement, Comrie, had leverage.
We had Weight when we signed Comrie..... although when we did get him under contract everybody had a good idea what was abot to happen... although if we could have kept weight that one more year and Comrie played like he did - wow would we have been a great team!

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10-01-2003, 07:54 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by thome_26
We had Weight when we signed Comrie..... although when we did get him under contract everybody had a good idea what was abot to happen... although if we could have kept weight that one more year and Comrie played like he did - wow would we have been a great team!
You're memory of events is certainly more accurate than mine. Your phrase "could have kept Weight" implies to me however that Lowe was forced to act from a position of financial weakness. Apparently the Oilers are now in better shape financially, getting ready for the upcoming probable work stoppage.
My initial claim was that Lowe's job is to make money. He seems to be good at it. Way to go Kevin.

 
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10-01-2003, 08:12 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omar
My initial claim was that Lowe's job is to make money. He seems to be good at it. Way to go Kevin.
I don't think the Oilers are making much money... and if it was Kevin's job to make money, this team would not have a $34 mil payroll.

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10-01-2003, 11:01 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. van Nostrin
70 cents is better than 0 in my opinion...I guess I just don't understand your idea of long-term...I don't know what Comrie's trade value is today...You think it will increase if he sits a year...I doubt it...So how does that help the Oilers in the long term...They won't get his services this season and will get less for him in a year? Doesn't make any sense...
Some people suggested Lowe should have waited to trade Weight until closer to the deadline, that he would have gotten a greater value at that time. If that's a valid argument (the counter to it was that if Weight got injured in-between, you're left with "jack"), you could say the same about Comrie, except that he's much less likely to be injured since he won't be playing pro hockey anywhere.

There are examples of players who have sat out but seemed to have retained their valued status, like Yashin, Peca, maybe even Carter, although his holdout didn't last more than 2 months or so into the season.

Bart

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10-01-2003, 11:24 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barto
Some people suggested Lowe should have waited to trade Weight until closer to the deadline, that he would have gotten a greater value at that time. If that's a valid argument (the counter to it was that if Weight got injured in-between, you're left with "jack"), you could say the same about Comrie, except that he's much less likely to be injured since he won't be playing pro hockey anywhere.

There are examples of players who have sat out but seemed to have retained their valued status, like Yashin, Peca, maybe even Carter, although his holdout didn't last more than 2 months or so into the season.

Bart
I think the Weight-Comrie compairason is not quite accurate...I think what I was trying to say is that generally, a player's trade value will probably go down if he's been idle for a long period of time...Maybe I'm wrong, but a player who's out for a long period of time has a better chance of getting injured, his timing will be off for a while...A good GM will exploit this and offer lower than market value...Trading Weight at the deadline that year would have probably given Edmonton a higher return but they waited and got less a few months later (although Reasonner and Stoll are playing well, but they still don't bring what Weight did)...

As for Yashin, the Sens did really well, except here in Ottawa, the very same day of the trade, I would take a guess and say that most fans didn't think the Sens got a player equivalent to Yashin...A few years later, it easy to see that it was a good trade...Nobody new what they were getting in Chara, Spezza was a prospect and Muckalt went one year without scoring...


Peca, after sitting one year, was traded for Connelly and Pyatt...Aren't the Sabres trying to trade Connelly...Not sure but I don't think he's playing to what they expected...

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