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Trade Rumor/Speculation Thread XIX: The Olympic Freeze

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Old
02-11-2014, 04:05 AM
  #1
I Eat Crow
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Trade Rumor/Speculation Thread XIX: The Olympic Freeze

Figured I'd get the new one rolling.

Klein was an acquisition for now and the future. He's plan B in case Girardi leaves. The Rangers also didn't want Del Zotto or Moore playing the right side. Moore has been playing better with a defensively steady partner on his natural left side.

If Girardi comes back, the organization has depth, but is still lacking a puck mover on the right side. I would think Klein or McIlrath becomes trade bait if Stralman and Girardi are brought back for a puck mover. Hockey trades are going to become more and more important as the seasons go on. The Rangers struck out with the Tyutin-Zherdev trade. Rozsival for Wolski was a wash.

Thing is, the Rangers will have some cap space to play with, but not much after raises to our RFA's. Our prospect pool is too shallow to go out and trade for a big name. It has to be a hockey trade; I'll pistol whip the first person to bring up Dan Boyle.

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02-11-2014, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by I Eat Crow View Post
Figured I'd get the new one rolling.

Klein was an acquisition for now and the future. He's plan B in case Girardi leaves. The Rangers also didn't want Del Zotto or Moore playing the right side. Moore has been playing better with a defensively steady partner on his natural left side.

If Girardi comes back, the organization has depth, but is still lacking a puck mover on the right side. I would think Klein or McIlrath becomes trade bait if Stralman and Girardi are brought back for a puck mover. Hockey trades are going to become more and more important as the seasons go on. The Rangers struck out with the Tyutin-Zherdev trade. Rozsival for Wolski was a wash.

Thing is, the Rangers will have some cap space to play with, but not much after raises to our RFA's. Our prospect pool is too shallow to go out and trade for a big name. It has to be a hockey trade; I'll pistol whip the first person to bring up Dan Boyle.
The Rangers brass is trading McIlrath? The Rangers have a lot invested in him. They trade him and he becomes the player Gorton envisioned him becoming and the Rangers still lack that type of player,they
will look like fools.

Klein is also protection for Stralman. The people following the Rangers praise Stralman. Other people around the NHL have noticed. Is Stralman getting more than $2.9M per over the next 4 years? If you look at the free agent D list,he is getting more than Klein.

How much money do the Rangers want invested on D? Staal is a $6M player. Girardi is a $6M player. McDonagh is at $4.7M. $2.9M for Klein. It wasn't that long ago when Staal and Girardi were at their current contracts with Del Zotto and McDonagh on entry level contracts. Sauer and Stralman had cheap contracts. Now re-signing Staal and Girardi will cost more than the Rangers had in their entire D in 11-12.

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02-11-2014, 07:25 AM
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Derek Roy's name was mentioned in the last thread. What sort of contract does everyone think he gets?

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02-11-2014, 07:46 AM
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The Rangers brass is trading McIlrath? The Rangers have a lot invested in him. They trade him and he becomes the player Gorton envisioned him becoming and the Rangers still lack that type of player,they
will look like fools.
Then don't trade him. Keep him. Continue developing him. When DM is ready to make the jump, it's a good problem. Then you can move Stralman or Klein for assets.

Girardi, Klein, and McIlrath don't have the offensive swagger AV demands from his dmen. That's why I think Klein would be the player moved if/when DM is ready.

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Klein is also protection for Stralman. The people following the Rangers praise Stralman. Other people around the NHL have noticed. Is Stralman getting more than $2.9M per over the next 4 years? If you look at the free agent D list,he is getting more than Klein.
I think Stralman will get 4M+. And I wouldn't hesitate signing him to that kind of contract.

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How much money do the Rangers want invested on D? Staal is a $6M player. Girardi is a $6M player. McDonagh is at $4.7M. $2.9M for Klein. It wasn't that long ago when Staal and Girardi were at their current contracts with Del Zotto and McDonagh on entry level contracts. Sauer and Stralman had cheap contracts. Now re-signing Staal and Girardi will cost more than the Rangers had in their entire D in 11-12.
We knew this day would come. It wasn't that long ago that we had one of the best, yet most affordable D in the league.

Do you move these guys who have earned their pay day? I don't think so. You sign them. And if you can replace them from within without skipping a beat you do so.

What would you do with our Defense, RB? Who would you sign? Who would you move?

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02-11-2014, 08:15 AM
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If we have the opportunity to lock up Girardi and Stralman to reasonable contracts, I think we have to do so. Girardi @ $5.5M AAV for 5 or 6 years. Stralman @ $3.5-4M for 4 or 5 years. Then you roll Girardi-Stralman-Klein and make McIlrath, Allen, or Andersson force the hand of management.

If you can't reach agreement on a contract, move the player and get back assets now. Either way, if the front office manages this properly, we should be able to get assets at some point for either player.

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02-11-2014, 08:18 AM
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There is nothing wrong with too much D.

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02-11-2014, 08:23 AM
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There is nothing wrong with too much D.
Exactly. Especially when you factor in that this is Hockey and players do get injured.

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02-11-2014, 08:39 AM
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Where does Moore fit with this team going forward? How much will he improve? Sure, he has the mobility you want from dmen, but when it comes down to actually defending he has a lot of work to do.

If Staal walks, can Moore slot in and replace him? No way. I don't think so. I don't see him posting the kind of offensive numbers you need from an offensive-dmen on your blueline either. So what kind of a dmen is he if he struggles defensively and isn't consistent enough offensively? Stop-gap? I had higher hopes. He's still young. And AV has a player with good size and good technique. Hopefully he can have the same type of impact that Torts had with Stralmans career. I personally don't see it though.

Is McIlrath going to fit AV's system? AV wants dmen who can join the transition. Make the crisp outlet pass and join the rush. He skates well for a big guy but he can't stop/go on the dime. Will Sather force AV to play DM? We've seen coaches and GM's butt heads before with players. GM drafts a player, develops him, and the coach gives that player a limited role on the ice because he doesn't fit the system, or play at the level he wants. We saw it with Torts/Sather last season. Kreider.

There are a lot of question marks on our defense, despite our top-4 being rather solid. We don't Staal's future. Will he inherit the "C"? How will that affect his career here in NY?

You know what you have with Girardi. You know what you have with Stralman. You can solidify one of the hardest positions in hockey will two players that will give you 20+ minutes of consistency.

AV won't have the type of offensive blueline he had in Vancouver. That doesn't mean he can't be successful. But it does make you wonder who's going to spearhead the attack from our blueline. McDonagh has made huge strides offensively like a lot of us predicted he would. But he isn't a Letang or Green. Staal's not a 40 point dmen. Girardi's not a 30 point dmen. Stralman shows he has the tools to play a bigger offensive role but it never comes to fruition.

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02-11-2014, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Where does Moore fit with this team going forward? How much will he improve? Sure, he has the mobility you want from dmen, but when it comes down to actually defending he has a lot of work to do.

If Staal walks, can Moore slot in and replace him? No way. I don't think so. I don't see him posting the kind of offensive numbers you need from an offensive-dmen on your blueline either. So what kind of a dmen is he if he struggles defensively and isn't consistent enough offensively? Stop-gap? I had higher hopes. He's still young. And AV has a player with good size and good technique. Hopefully he can have the same type of impact that Torts had with Stralmans career. I personally don't see it though.

Is McIlrath going to fit AV's system? AV wants dmen who can join the transition. Make the crisp outlet pass and join the rush. He skates well for a big guy but he can't stop/go on the dime. Will Sather force AV to play DM? We've seen coaches and GM's butt heads before with players. GM drafts a player, develops him, and the coach gives that player a limited role on the ice because he doesn't fit the system, or play at the level he wants. We saw it with Torts/Sather last season. Kreider.

There are a lot of question marks on our defense, despite our top-4 being rather solid. We don't Staal's future. Will he inherit the "C"? How will that affect his career here in NY?

You know what you have with Girardi. You know what you have with Stralman. You can solidify one of the hardest positions in hockey will two players that will give you 20+ minutes of consistency.

AV won't have the type of offensive blueline he had in Vancouver. That doesn't mean he can't be successful. But it does make you wonder who's going to spearhead the attack from our blueline. McDonagh has made huge strides offensively like a lot of us predicted he would. But he isn't a Letang or Green. Staal's not a 40 point dmen. Girardi's not a 30 point dmen. Stralman shows he has the tools to play a bigger offensive role but it never comes to fruition.
Rangers didn't exactly know what they had with McDonagh the first time they brought him up. He struggled a bit in his half season with Hartford and there was very little offense. They still didn't know exactly what they had with McD until Staal missed the first half of the 11-12 season and they were forced to make Ryan their top pairing LD with Girardi on the right. Which is to say that who knows if John Moore were put in the position game in and game out of having to be top 4 or top 2 how that might work out. Personally I'm not sure he has enough intensity or the physical strength but he does have the skating and the puck movement. He just might be fine if forced to do more. DZ maybe played his best hockey moving up to second pair when Staal was out.

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02-11-2014, 09:03 AM
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Who's the new 7M player next season? Is it Vanek or Stastny? Or save a mil and go with Moulson? Or (gulp) Cammy?

Sather doesn't have the control to avoid the inevitable. He's not going to buy out Beaver, move Callahan, and not bring in another player.

Sather did a lot to construct a team that suited Torts. Ass backwards. Did he learn his lesson? Does AV's philosophy gel with what management wants? Because it didn't with Torts.

Who would AV want?

These guys don't think like us. Especially coaches. They have a short shelf life. They need to produce. Especially when they are expected to based on who they succeeded and how far they got under the old regime. AV is going to push for guys that fit his system. They want to improve the team. Free agency is the fastest and easiest way to do that. There are free-agents available this summer that both Sather and AV are going to target. Is it Stastny? Or Vanek? It's going to be somebody. Sather won't go into next year with 6M cap space. He just won't. We know this.

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02-11-2014, 09:09 AM
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McIlrath in the last month alone has made great strides into becoming a NHL regular..his game is coming together at a greater pace then before.. He is like watching a grown man play vs kids right now.. He doesn't just hit he levels people. His first pass is getting better but needs work. No one goes near him physically. he has a good shot from the point and always there for a teammate. he needs to improve lateral movement but it has gotten better. I watch ever pack game and focus on him and in last 2 weeks he is greatly improving.

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02-11-2014, 09:13 AM
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Rangers didn't exactly know what they had with McDonagh the first time they brought him up. He struggled a bit in his half season with Hartford and there was very little offense. They still didn't know exactly what they had with McD until Staal missed the first half of the 11-12 season and they were forced to make Ryan their top pairing LD with Girardi on the right. Which is to say that who knows if John Moore were put in the position game in and game out of having to be top 4 or top 2 how that might work out. Personally I'm not sure he has enough intensity or the physical strength but he does have the skating and the puck movement. He just might be fine if forced to do more. DZ maybe played his best hockey moving up to second pair when Staal was out.
McD's defensive play was miles ahead of Moore's when he made his debut. His biggest problem was finding consistency. 2 good games. 1 bad game. It's not a matter of consistency with Moore. I see a void in his defensive awareness, similar to Del Zotto's but a lot more apparent. And no offense. I don't see a guy who's getting better with more experience. McD seemed to improve almost on a weekly basis. The rate he developed was just, sick. Staal was another dmen who didn't necessarily shine from day 1, but you saw something similar with his game as you did with McD's. It was just a matter of time with those guys. Just a matter of them finding consistency.

Hopefully I'm wrong, but I don't see that with Moore. Maybe you're right. Maybe playing a bigger role with accelerate his development.

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02-11-2014, 09:28 AM
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McD's defensive play was miles ahead of Moore's when he made his debut. His biggest problem was finding consistency. 2 good games. 1 bad game. It's not a matter of consistency with Moore. I see a void in his defensive awareness, similar to Del Zotto's but a lot more apparent. And no offense. I don't see a guy who's getting better with more experience. McD seemed to improve almost on a weekly basis. The rate he developed was just, sick. Staal was another dmen who didn't necessarily shine from day 1, but you saw something similar with his game as you did with McD's. It was just a matter of time with those guys. Just a matter of them finding consistency.

Hopefully I'm wrong, but I don't see that with Moore. Maybe you're right. Maybe playing a bigger role with accelerate his development.
I'm not sure I agree totally. I have seen Moore play some fantastic games and then some real stinkers. He is so quick that he sometimes still takes himself out of position by overskating.

I think he'll be a keeper and once he gets more comfortable and confident, I think he'll turn into a bit of a rover type d-man ala Nick Leddy.

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02-11-2014, 09:39 AM
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I'm not sure I agree totally. I have seen Moore play some fantastic games and then some real stinkers. He is so quick that he sometimes still takes himself out of position by overskating.

I think he'll be a keeper and once he gets more comfortable and confident, I think he'll turn into a bit of a rover type d-man ala Nick Leddy.
I think he needs to simplify his game. Like you said, he seems to overskate the play a lot. Sometimes he trys to do too much with his skating rather than just making the easy play. When it works, it looks great; When it doesn't, he looks terrible.

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02-11-2014, 09:43 AM
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McIlrath in the last month alone has made great strides into becoming a NHL regular..his game is coming together at a greater pace then before.. He is like watching a grown man play vs kids right now.. He doesn't just hit he levels people. His first pass is getting better but needs work. No one goes near him physically. he has a good shot from the point and always there for a teammate. he needs to improve lateral movement but it has gotten better. I watch ever pack game and focus on him and in last 2 weeks he is greatly improving.
I have very high hopes for him. Even if he's a career 3rd pairing dmen that plays 14 minutes a night. He's going to make life miserable for the opposition. But most importantly, he's going to be a good dmen and a great teammate. He's a very likeable guy. The type of player you want in your lockerroom.

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I'm not sure I agree totally. I have seen Moore play some fantastic games and then some real stinkers. He is so quick that he sometimes still takes himself out of position by overskating.

I think he'll be a keeper and once he gets more comfortable and confident, I think he'll turn into a bit of a rover type d-man ala Nick Leddy.
I think he needs to replicate the things that make Stralman successful. And those aren't big, flashy things. Stralman plays a smart and simple game. Moore looks completely lost out there sometimes. He misses assignments. He makes critical errors with the puck. He has defensive lapses that I don't think a dmen with over 150 games on his NHL resume should have.

Maybe I'm expecting more than I should. I'm just not his biggest fan. Love his 'potential', but I don't see him coming close to it and maintaining it once he reaches it.

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02-11-2014, 09:47 AM
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I have very high hopes for him. Even if he's a career 3rd pairing dmen that plays 14 minutes a night. He's going to make life miserable for the opposition. But most importantly, he's going to be a good dmen and a great teammate. He's a very likeable guy. The type of player you want in your lockerroom.



I think he needs to replicate the things that make Stralman successful. And those aren't big, flashy things. Stralman plays a smart and simple game. Moore looks completely lost out there sometimes. He misses assignments. He makes critical errors with the puck. He has defensive lapses that I don't think a dmen with over 150 games on his NHL resume should have.

Maybe I'm expecting more than I should. I'm just not his biggest fan. Love his 'potential', but I don't see him coming close to it and maintaining it once he reaches it.
But so what if he never reaches top-4 status? If he can reach 40 points a season and play decent defense while providing an element of offense and skating to the back end that is a good thing, no?

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02-11-2014, 10:07 AM
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John Moore is 23 years old. Lets allow him to develop before determining what he will and won't be. We already ran one 23 year old defenseman out the door this season. Klein's job from the outset was to help Moore develop his game. He said it in an interview not long after we acquired him.

Eventually some of the older statesmen will need to be moved. Is Girardi signing? At first reports were he was seeking around 5.5. Now he may go to free agency.

3 games left till the trade deadline. The decisions need to be made by the time the players return from Sochi. Determine the highest we are going to go in new contracts for Girardi and Callahan. If they don't accept you move them and go forward.

Tough decisions. But make the decisions that help the team. Not emotion. Not "business". Hockey. What moves make this a better hockey team.

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02-11-2014, 10:15 AM
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my guess would be they sign Girardi before games resume. Klein is the Stralman replacement. I find it hard to believe they would block McIlrath.

IF they deal anyone its Cally and they would need to get a LW/RW that can play right now. Then some picks/prospects for the future. Cally is just asking for too much. I love the guy but he's not going to be a big time scorer. The team will miss all the little things he does but he has to be dealt if he wants over 6 million for 7yrs.

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02-11-2014, 10:33 AM
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Then don't trade him. Keep him. Continue developing him. When DM is ready to make the jump, it's a good problem. Then you can move Stralman or Klein for assets.

Girardi, Klein, and McIlrath don't have the offensive swagger AV demands from his dmen. That's why I think Klein would be the player moved if/when DM is ready.



I think Stralman will get 4M+. And I wouldn't hesitate signing him to that kind of contract.



We knew this day would come. It wasn't that long ago that we had one of the best, yet most affordable D in the league.

Do you move these guys who have earned their pay day? I don't think so. You sign them. And if you can replace them from within without skipping a beat you do so.

What would you do with our Defense, RB? Who would you sign? Who would you move?
McIlrath is no longer waiver exempt after his third year. That's another season. You need to have the entry level guys in the mix. Young blood. Cheap contracts. Many people here want to invest a ton of money on D with long term contracts for guys who will be in their mid 30s except for McDonagh. You wanna pay the big three fine. Then you have Klein for four more years. How many long term contracts are needed on D? Then the Rangers resemble one of those teams which is locked into long term contracts with NTC and NMC. To me that's a recipe for disaster. Management needs their permission to move them or they have a limited NTC to ten teams. Where is the offensive player in that mix?

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02-11-2014, 10:47 AM
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The Bruins will not be “biting” on trying to acquire Dan Girardi as long as the Rangers want a first round pick as part of a trade package. (CSNNE)

Over the weekend Joe Haggerty wrote that Girardi would likely cost a first round pick and maybe a top prospect. That price is likely too high for the Bruins to pay for a rental player. (CSNNE)

Mike Milbury thinks that Girardi would be a prefect fit for the Bruins. (CSNNE)

The Rangers are more likely to re-sign Girardi than they are trade him.
http://snyrangersblog.com/2013-14/20...trade-package/

I don't like the Bruins as trading partners.

Top Prospect + 1st, that's what the Rangers should be looking for if they were to trade Girardi.

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02-11-2014, 11:15 AM
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It is amusing to me, Sather is doing exactly what everyone wanted him to do mid-season. Don't overpay for these guys, and if we can't sign them, sell them, even if we're in playoff position.

It's very uncharacteristic.

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02-11-2014, 11:25 AM
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It is amusing to me, Sather is doing exactly what everyone wanted him to do mid-season. Don't overpay for these guys, and if we can't sign them, sell them, even if we're in playoff position.

It's very uncharacteristic.
This makes me hopeful for the future of this organization if they bite the bullet and make the correct choice for the long-term health of the organization.

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02-11-2014, 11:30 AM
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It is amusing to me, Sather is doing exactly what everyone wanted him to do mid-season. Don't overpay for these guys, and if we can't sign them, sell them, even if we're in playoff position.

It's very uncharacteristic.
It's like......he's being a competent GM. Who would've thought?

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02-11-2014, 11:34 AM
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I think Girardi can be resigned. Callahan, unfortunately, is already halfway out the door.

And if Boston doesn't want to pay a 1st as part of a return for Girardi, oh well. If either of these players get traded before the deadline I would hope a 1st is coming back this way.

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02-11-2014, 11:42 AM
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It is amusing to me, Sather is doing exactly what everyone wanted him to do mid-season. Don't overpay for these guys, and if we can't sign them, sell them, even if we're in playoff position.

It's very uncharacteristic.
You won't hear a peep of protest out of me. Sather is playing the waiting game, which is exactly what he should be doing at this point. Prices are only going to go up as the deadline approaches. Teams are going to have injuries, or start to feel like they're one or two pieces away from contending.

The only thing that bothers me is that some of our lesser pending UFAs remain unsigned. I would like to see some players signed out of the Boyle, Pouliot, Moore, Stralman, Carcillo group. Some of those players are going to need to be retained. I'd like that to be sorted out before the deadline. It feels like they're waiting on the Callahan and Girardi situations to resolve themselves before signing anyone else, which I feel is a mistake. Lock up one of Boyle or Moore, trade the other. Give Pouliot another 2 years, unless you think you can replace his production from within, then trade him. Bring back Carcillo as a cheap 13th F.

I guess I just want some movement with our complementary players. Our 4th line is finally a positive force for the first time in a long time. Determine who you're going to keep and start making moves. Cap space shouldn't be a huge issue unless the organization is contemplating something crazy like NOT buying out Richards. That's what honestly scares me. Why haven't we re-signed anyone other than Lundqvist? If there's still a chance they keep Richards, and then proceed to sign Callahan and Girardi, we have no cap space. Is that what they're waiting for? The price for Boyle, Moore, Pouliot, and Stralman is only going to rise if we let them go to UFA.

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