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Trade proposal with Nash......... It just might work!

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Old
09-30-2003, 05:34 PM
  #26
dawgbone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
As a few other posters mentioned, I think Comrie & Rita for Legwand is much closer - or Comrie and a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

However, I doubt Nashville would even move Legwand out for that. He will likely make less money and isn't holding out for $3 million dollars at the moment - he makes much, much less than the $4.55 million Comrie made last year.
That statement pretty much erased any credibility you may have had.

Comrie is not holding out for $3mil per season.

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09-30-2003, 05:52 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
That statement pretty much erased any credibility you may have had.

Comrie is not holding out for $3mil per season.
According to the Vancouver Sun as of less than a week ago, he's seeking 'around $3 million per season'.

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09-30-2003, 08:30 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
According to the Vancouver Sun as of less than a week ago, he's seeking 'around $3 million per season'.
Yes but according to Matheson he is not asking for 3 million and that was written yesterday.

I trust Matheson more than some writer in the Vancouver Sun.

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Old
09-30-2003, 08:42 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
As a few other posters mentioned, I think Comrie & Rita for Legwand is much closer - or Comrie and a 2nd or 3rd round pick.
However, I doubt Nashville would even move Legwand out for that. He will likely make less money and isn't holding out for $3 million dollars at the moment - he makes much, much less than the $4.55 million Comrie made last year.
You know what, all this time I've failed to realize that Legwand is the same age as Comrie. I can see why Nashville would want to hold on to him. As far as I see it:

Age: Same
Production: Comrie+
Size: Legwand+++
Upside: Same

I think Comrie plus Rita should be able to do it too...with Edmonton slightly overpaying. The Comrie/Rita for Legwand/Coburn would never happen.

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09-30-2003, 08:55 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alzardnp1
You know what, all this time I've failed to realize that Legwand is the same age as Comrie. I can see why Nashville would want to hold on to him. As far as I see it:

Age: Same
Production: Comrie+
Size: Legwand+++
Upside: Same

I think Comrie plus Rita should be able to do it too...with Edmonton slightly overpaying. The Comrie/Rita for Legwand/Coburn would never happen.
Coburn's in Atlanta I guess that's a good reason it will never happen but if u meant suter yes that would be insufficient to get both. I think something like Comrie+Dvorak+2nd pick would be sufficient.

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09-30-2003, 09:17 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
Coburn's in Atlanta I guess that's a good reason it will never happen but if u meant suter yes that would be insufficient to get both. I think something like Comrie+Dvorak+2nd pick would be sufficient.
oops, I meant Suter...my bad.

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Old
10-01-2003, 08:33 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alzardnp1
You know what, all this time I've failed to realize that Legwand is the same age as Comrie. I can see why Nashville would want to hold on to him. As far as I see it:

Age: Same
Production: Comrie+
Size: Legwand+++
Upside: Same

I think Comrie plus Rita should be able to do it too...with Edmonton slightly overpaying. The Comrie/Rita for Legwand/Coburn would never happen.
You might see it that way. Personally, I see it it:

Age: Wash, though older is better, not younger, at this stage
Production: Wash, for now. Legwand was on pace for 60+ points, but didn't get it due to injury. Legwand has just as much point/goal potential as Comrie
Size: Legwand, clearly
Upside: Legwand, clearly. Offensivly, they are similar, but Legwand plays a brilliant all-around game, and is already one of the best top-line checkers in the league. His skating blows Comrie's out of the water. Legwand could really be another Mike Modano, whereas I feel Comrie could be another, say, Chris Drury (maybe a little better). See the difference as to how I see it?

Value-wise may be fair, but I still don't think the Preds would deal Legwand for Comrie & Rita alone. I have a feeling they'd ask for significantly more.

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10-01-2003, 09:12 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
You might see it that way. Personally, I see it it:

Age: Wash, though older is better, not younger, at this stage
Production: Wash, for now. Legwand was on pace for 60+ points, but didn't get it due to injury. Legwand has just as much point/goal potential as Comrie
Size: Legwand, clearly
Upside: Legwand, clearly. Offensivly, they are similar, but Legwand plays a brilliant all-around game, and is already one of the best top-line checkers in the league. His skating blows Comrie's out of the water. Legwand could really be another Mike Modano, whereas I feel Comrie could be another, say, Chris Drury (maybe a little better). See the difference as to how I see it?

Value-wise may be fair, but I still don't think the Preds would deal Legwand for Comrie & Rita alone. I have a feeling they'd ask for significantly more.
Age: older is better? okay, whatever.

Production: Wash? Sure Legwand may have been on pace for 60 points, but you also have to factor in that Comrie reached or was on pace for 60 points 2 years in a row, whereas last year was the first time Legwand was near that mark. Plus Comrie's would have been higher had he not tried to come back too soon from his injury. A second factor is that Comrie is a better goal scorer, and has demonstrated that so far (61 goals in 192 games vs 54 in 280). I mean, get real here, Comrie has demonstrated that he is a better offensive player, and if you can't see that, you are blind.

Size: Yes Legwand is bigger... but it isn't like he is 215 lbs or anything. He has 4 inches of height, and maybe 10 lbs of weight on Comrie, which isn't a whole lot, and still doesn't make him a "big centre".

Upside: Legwand clearly again? What do you smoke? Comrie is a better offensive player, especially in terms of goal scoring, and when he plays like he did 2 years ago is at least average defensively. Legwand is good defensively, but that isn't what the Oilers need... they have enough of those. Comrie will be a better offensive player, while Legwand will be a better defensive player... but he sure as hell won't be Modano.

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Old
10-01-2003, 09:54 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Age: older is better? okay, whatever.
You don't win many games with a team full of 24 year olds.

Quote:
Production: Wash? Sure Legwand may have been on pace for 60 points, but you also have to factor in that Comrie reached or was on pace for 60 points 2 years in a row, whereas last year was the first time Legwand was near that mark. Plus Comrie's would have been higher had he not tried to come back too soon from his injury. A second factor is that Comrie is a better goal scorer, and has demonstrated that so far (61 goals in 192 games vs 54 in 280). I mean, get real here, Comrie has demonstrated that he is a better offensive player, and if you can't see that, you are blind.
Yes, wash. I think if you had Legwand surrounded by the scoring talent on the Oilers and not injured, he would have put up 25 goals and 70 points. The goal scoring is fair to say Comrie is better, but I never felt Comrie was better offensivly than Legwand was. I think anyone stuck with Johansson & Walker as 1st line linemates and miss 18 games and you're 22 years old, you have huge room for improvement and he didn't do too badly with 48 points. I wouldn't be surprised at all for him to outpoint Comrie next year, even pro-rated Comrie.

Quote:
Size: Yes Legwand is bigger... but it isn't like he is 215 lbs or anything. He has 4 inches of height, and maybe 10 lbs of weight on Comrie, which isn't a whole lot, and still doesn't make him a "big centre".
4 inches is a HUGE HUGE HUGE advantage in today's NHL.

Quote:
Upside: Legwand clearly again? What do you smoke? Comrie is a better offensive player, especially in terms of goal scoring, and when he plays like he did 2 years ago is at least average defensively. Legwand is good defensively, but that isn't what the Oilers need... they have enough of those. Comrie will be a better offensive player, while Legwand will be a better defensive player... but he sure as hell won't be Modano.
Again, difference of opinion. I don't see why you have to be so hostile about it. Yeah, I think Legwand can be another Mike Modano out there. Slap him between a couple decent linemates and in a couple years he could get 80 points playing strong two-way hockey, too!

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10-01-2003, 10:30 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
You don't win many games with a team full of 24 year olds.
Granted, but it isn't like Legwand brings a whole world of experience either... I mean he hasn't even played in the playoffs yet.

Quote:
Yes, wash. I think if you had Legwand surrounded by the scoring talent on the Oilers and not injured, he would have put up 25 goals and 70 points. The goal scoring is fair to say Comrie is better, but I never felt Comrie was better offensivly than Legwand was. I think anyone stuck with Johansson & Walker as 1st line linemates and miss 18 games and you're 22 years old, you have huge room for improvement and he didn't do too badly with 48 points. I wouldn't be surprised at all for him to outpoint Comrie next year, even pro-rated Comrie.
How about Comrie playing with an ice-cold Anson Carter and Jochen Hecht on his line? Is that scoring talent? I don't think it is. And you cannot simply say that if Legwand hadn't gotten hurt, and if he had so and so as linemates, he would have gotten so many points... sorry doesn't work like that, because I could retaliate by saying that if Comrie didn't have hurt and complacent linemates 2 years ago, he would have gotten 40 goals and 75 points, and if he hadn't hurt himself last year, and played with Hemsky (the way he played at the end) and Smyth all year, he would have gotten 40 goals again and 85 points... but there is nothing to support it. You have to go by what they did. Comrie played in 69 games, but really, 7-10 of those games he shouldn't have played in. Factoring that in, he played 59 games, 19 goals and 29 assists (or 26 goals, 40 assists over 82 games). What I don't get is Legwand has room for improvement, but Comrie doesn't? Did I understand that right?

Quote:
4 inches is a HUGE HUGE HUGE advantage in today's NHL.
Really... explain exactly how height gives you an advantage in the NHL. I would assume things like balance, quickness (not speed), strength, and intelligence would mean alot more than height. In fact, in most situations, you are told to try and lower your centre of gravity, thereby actually giving an edge to smaller players. Height is only really an advantage if you are carrying the weight behind it, which Legwand is not doing.

Quote:
Again, difference of opinion. I don't see why you have to be so hostile about it. Yeah, I think Legwand can be another Mike Modano out there. Slap him between a couple decent linemates and in a couple years he could get 80 points playing strong two-way hockey, too!
I am hostile because you severely under-rate practically everyone on Edmonton. Sure, he could be another Mike Modano, or he could be another checking centre that notches 50 points. In either case, goals, which Comrie provides, have a higher value than checking centres.

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Old
10-01-2003, 10:33 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Size: Yes Legwand is bigger... but it isn't like he is 215 lbs or anything. He has 4 inches of height, and maybe 10 lbs of weight on Comrie, which isn't a whole lot, and still doesn't make him a "big centre".
i'm staying out of this argument(for once) because i think the old comrie vs legwand debate is never going to be resolved..but i will say this...it says something that a lot more oilers fans would rather have legwand than comrie...whereas hardly any preds fans would rather have comrie than legwand. if we had both...comrie would center the second line, and legwand would remain the top-line center.

I just had to point out that I believe you're looking at an outdated stat for legwand. several places(including the preds website) had him listed as 190 pounds...which he hasn't been, since the beginning of last season. he now weighs in at 210, which makes him not 15 pounds heavier than comrie, but 35. 4 inches and 35 pounds is a pretty substantial difference.

I also think that Legwand is more than just "good" defensively. Legwand is every bit as good defensively as Comrie is offensively. the difference is...Legwand has the ability, and likely will...get much better offensively. People felt that he was a bust because he didn't put up the numbers he put up in the OHL within the first few seasons, but it should be noted that Trotz was responsible for that. Legwand's point-getting ability isn't really in question...but Barry Trotz is an adamant supporter of defensive hockey, and it was made clear to David that if he couldn't concentrate on doing his job defensively, his role on the team would be much less than he'd like it to be. That said, he focused on his forechecking and slowly became a dominant player in that regard. Mike Modano himself said, "David Legwand is probably the hardest forward to work around in the league, as far as I'm concerned." Look the Predators record versus the Stars, last year...we absolutely owned them...and a lot of that has to do with the fact that Modano was SHUT DOWN by Legwand. His offensive game isn't lacking...it just hasn't caught up yet, and was showing signs of doing so last year...and will continue to do so, this year. I see Legwand as a 30-35\55-65 type of guy, when all is said and done, and I don't think the Modano comparison is as lofty as some think.

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10-01-2003, 10:36 AM
  #37
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whoops. i said i was staying out of that argument. sadly, i'm afraid that isn't possible. my fingers become possessed of an otherworldly force when i get started...and i wake up on the floor, with no recollection of having typed anything

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10-01-2003, 11:01 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
i'm staying out of this argument(for once) because i think the old comrie vs legwand debate is never going to be resolved..but i will say this...it says something that a lot more oilers fans would rather have legwand than comrie...whereas hardly any preds fans would rather have comrie than legwand. if we had both...comrie would center the second line, and legwand would remain the top-line center.
I think Oiler fans just want Comrie, or someone to replace him... and I don't see how you can say that Comrie would be the second line centre, as I am pretty sure that isn't your job.

Quote:
I just had to point out that I believe you're looking at an outdated stat for legwand. several places(including the preds website) had him listed as 190 pounds...which he hasn't been, since the beginning of last season. he now weighs in at 210, which makes him not 15 pounds heavier than comrie, but 35. 4 inches and 35 pounds is a pretty substantial difference.
Possibly, but seeing as Comrie never took a physical with Edmonton this year, his is out-dated, and he spent all summer doing heavy weight training, which most likely means that he gained weight as well, but of course it is impossible to tell at this time. And btw, where did you ever see that Legwand is 210? Everywhere it is listed at 190... even on the NHLPA site he is listed at 190, and they are pretty good at keeping things up to date. Sorry, there have been enough BS posts for me to simply take someones word... no offense intended.

Quote:
I also think that Legwand is more than just "good" defensively. Legwand is every bit as good defensively as Comrie is offensively. the difference is...Legwand has the ability, and likely will...get much better offensively.
And Comrie cannot get better defensively? In his first full year, Comrie performed relatively well in his own end. If he is able to build on that, then Comrie has the ability, and likely will get much better offensively.

Quote:
Look the Predators record versus the Stars, last year...we absolutely owned them...and a lot of that has to do with the fact that Modano was SHUT DOWN by Legwand.
Well seeing as Legwand only played 2 games against the Stars, that is a little mis-leading.... that's like saying Comrie owned the Devils because Comrie lit up Brodeur.

Quote:
His offensive game isn't lacking...it just hasn't caught up yet, and was showing signs of doing so last year...and will continue to do so, this year. I see Legwand as a 30-35\55-65 type of guy, when all is said and done, and I don't think the Modano comparison is as lofty as some think.
It may not have caught up, but that is the NHL for you. There are tonnes of guys who lit up junior that can't even come close to doing the same in the NHL. Yes he had a breakthrough season... but can he match it? Can he stay healthy, which he hasn't been able to do the past 2 seasons?

This isn't a Legwand bash here. He is developing into a solid 2 way player, but at the same time, to say he is more valuable than someone who is younger, been in the league less and has out-scored him, as well as a player who was named the top prospect in the NHL, is insane.

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10-01-2003, 01:09 PM
  #39
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I'm going to throw my hat in here once again. I like Comrie, I don't want him to get traded and I think he could become a very good player. He's a young kid who has accomplished a lot in his first few years. I think that he's only going to get better offensively as well as defensively.

I also really like Rita. Solid young prospect who IMO has second line powerforward written all over him. Great speed, good size and skills. IMO he could be good for up 50-60 points if he pans out.

But Legwand could become the next Modano as mentioned before. This guy is one of the smoothest skaters in the league, he's also got very good size and his work ethic is excellent. I don't think he'll ever be as good as Modano (no one in the league can stickhandle at full speed like Modano can, aside from Bure when he was playing) but I can see him putting up 70-80 points at his peak. But what really seperates him from the pack is his defensive play. He plays an incredible two-way game and can shut down other teams top lines as well as provide a constant scoring threat. He's up there with Kovalchuk, Heatley, Gaborik, and Havlat as one of the top young players in the game today if you ask me.

If I had a chance to do this deal I would definitley pull the trigger.

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10-01-2003, 04:16 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Possibly, but seeing as Comrie never took a physical with Edmonton this year, his is out-dated, and he spent all summer doing heavy weight training, which most likely means that he gained weight as well, but of course it is impossible to tell at this time. And btw, where did you ever see that Legwand is 210? Everywhere it is listed at 190... even on the NHLPA site he is listed at 190, and they are pretty good at keeping things up to date. Sorry, there have been enough BS posts for me to simply take someones word... no offense intended.
Legwand could be 210 because i read an artical saying that Comrie is at 190 pounds?

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10-02-2003, 11:47 AM
  #41
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This debate isn't going to find an end until something happens in the trade department. Then we'll know where Legwand stands in comparison to Comrie, especially if there are rumblings Lowe has talked to Poile.

As far as FacelessButcher goes with his comment that the Oilers won't be giving up someone as talented as Rita, think again. If, big if here, the Oilers could work out such a deal they'd be stupid to hold onto Rita. As of last time I checked, he again wasn't going to make this team. We have Hemsky, Dvorak and Laraque down the right side with Pisani taking his old position on the RPM line. No room there.

Left side you have Smyth, Isbister, Torres and Moreau, so no room there also. Maybe we can keep Rita up in Edmonton until he does turn the corner, like Horcoff did. One problem is that we kind of lack a solid centre, and giving up a guy who very well might score 30 goals in the league is tough to swallow, getting someone like Legwand who fills the needs of the team as well as the fact he's a prototypical Oiler, can't be overlooked.

Nashville would probably need a little more to sweeten this pot, and I wouldn't be afraid to cough up one more player if it took it. All we have to do is worry about ourselves, and if Legwand can play I really don't care how Comrie plays elsewhere. I can honestly say I'll be more pissed about getting crap than I will be seeing Comrie play great elsewhere.

Look at our roster and the whole is down the middle. I don't think Stoll could do what Comrie does, and definately not what Legwand does. Chimera interests me, but really, the guy is right now looking at playing 50-65 games on our 3rd and 4th lines for the season. Either one I'd be willing to bite the bullet on and see them leave if it meant a guy like Legwand.

I don't want to see another season of no playoffs - make a deal, and make a good one.

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