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How expendable is Vladimir Sobotka to the Blues?

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12-20-2013, 11:06 AM
  #101
Iron Fist
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Yeah, I agree. Sobotka kills Berglund in the possession department.

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12-20-2013, 11:37 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Frenzy1 View Post

Some aren't even close. He is outscoring Berglund by a hole 4 points this year, but typically produces up to 50% less. This is the first year he will outscore Berglund, who is having his worst offensive year. (Hell there are a few seasons where Berglund has come close to scoring more goals then Sobotka has points). Toss in the fact that Sobotka is a year older....

Berglund plays against the opponents 2nd line in most games and also the first if we are away and the opposition is trying to get their top line away from Backes. (Playing better d is a flat out lie.) If Hitch felt he would win more games w/ Sobotka agains the 2nd line, he would play him there.

Yes he hustles and creates turnovers. But he has a very hard time with big centers down low. His offensive game isn't close to Berglund.

And possession, I would say Berglund is an ox when he gets the puck and it is hard for opposition to take it from him (which is part of physicality). His cycle game isn't as strong, but he holds onto the puck better then Sobotka. Playing to the corner is what Hitch wants the team to do. It isn't like Berglund is turning the puck over a lot. He isn't.

I AM USUALLY BLOWN AWAY BY HOW MUCH POSTERS HERE ARE "WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR ME LATELY". AND HOW MUCH NEGATIVE CRAP PUT OUT BY A FEW POSTERS SOMEHOW BECOMES GOSPEL TO EVERYONE ELSE - CREATES WHIPPING BOYS....
I think we can all agree Berglund isn't producing offensively as well as he would like, and you are correct it doesn't mean he won't in the second half or even next year.

But because he's having another year, where it looks like he's not going to produce at least 50 points, there's going to be some speculation that he could be the one moved in a deal trying to upgrade on the second line, because Sobotka seems capable of handling the third line duties, plus he's very strong on the face-off dot. Sobotka is having his best year, and the thing I have noticed is how poised he is with the puck while being pressured, he's actually one of the best at making a smart simple play that avoids a turnover.

If anyone remembers my previous posts, I prefer size and will almost always side with the bigger guy when making a personnel decision when the skill set is similar, and I have also made fun of the area when over-hyping little guys that are role players. But Sobotka isn't Joe Ewing or Bo Hart, that's where everyone's lost that argument.

One other thing, with Sobotka's versatility they both could be here next year, if the trading partner doesn't demand a center in return, I could easily see The Blues giving Berglund more time to complete his development.

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12-20-2013, 04:52 PM
  #103
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Now he's on the IR. Shoulda traded him when we had the chance, good call OP.

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12-20-2013, 04:58 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by bluesman11 View Post
Robb_K, does this thread and some of these posters remind you of the old board?

It seems the multiple screenname guy is back.
No, there has not been a single solitary mention of the following items:

Organ
Mustang
Creepy meetings with either players or some of the Blue staff
"SIEVE!!!"
Kat McPhee
Guns
Florida

And I have not received any private messages with such foolishness either.


Also is not Fan In Oregon because he has not put this on the trade board yet.





And more on topic, getting rid of Sobotka in anything other than landing a #1/#2 center would be foolishness. Since no team is going to make Sobotka a central piece of such a trade, this whole things becomes pretty moot.

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12-20-2013, 05:00 PM
  #105
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Now he's on the IR. Shoulda traded him when we had the chance, good call OP.
Dammit I was drinking milk!

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12-20-2013, 05:04 PM
  #106
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OMG, fan in oregon, now that made me laugh.

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12-20-2013, 05:04 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
Dammit I was drinking milk!
If only Sobotka had been his little skull might have been thicker and not suffered these dastardly injuries.


Or he could read this board which I often suspect causes a similar condition.

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12-20-2013, 05:18 PM
  #108
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Sobotka's "day to day" injury has went from being a game to decision to not even making the road trip (even Backes who everyone thought had the more severe injury made the trip).

And by the way, the team soared without Sobotka last night. No problems with work ethic or effort.

If anyone wants to jump on board with me, I will let you and won't hold it against you that I once took all of the abuse for saying something that is proving to be true.


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12-20-2013, 05:21 PM
  #109
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Oh boy.

Guess Backes is on the trade block too now since the team looked fine without him last night. Elliott also needs to be packaged with those two ASAP.

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12-20-2013, 05:56 PM
  #110
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We can beat the vast majority of the East in our sleep. Last night looked a lot like the Toronto game. We literally could do no wrong, despite not really playing that great. That's the mark of a great team.

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12-20-2013, 06:03 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieG View Post
Sobotka's "day to day" injury has went from being a game to decision to not even making the road trip (even Backes who everyone thought had the more severe injury made the trip).

And by the way, the team soared without Sobotka last night. No problems with work ethic or effort.

If anyone wants to jump on board with me, I will let you and won't hold it against you that I once took all of the abuse for saying something that is proving to be true.


================================================== ============
""Hey, JamieG was right after all like a wise owl that sits in the forest and sees things others do not see.""
The Pens have won six in a row and most of those without Malkin. I was just wondering when he's going to be available?

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12-22-2013, 11:05 PM
  #112
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Just in case anyone missed it (because in fairness I did take a lot of abuse for this thread) the Blues without Sobotka haven't missed a beat and just played 2 great games. Also, players I specifically said would thrive without Sobotka have done just that...Roy, Morrow and Lapierre are all contibuting.

If a legitmate top 6 forward is acquired as a rental near the deadline the Blues would be stupid to not make Sobotka the expendable piece that is subtracted.

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12-22-2013, 11:28 PM
  #113
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There really isn't room on this team for a rental. In a Vanek scenario, again realistically, Sobotka would not be the one to go when you cut salary. Vanek is the only rental that makes sense to get because everyone else at this point would be a marginal upgrade at best.

Trading for a long-term target is harder to predict what would happen, but I would imagine we'd also have to clear more salary than Sobotka.

Point is, he salary isn't significant enough to be someone who would get cut and his future salary will remain low, which is an added benefit.

And I'm sorry, beat bad teams does not prove anything.

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12-23-2013, 01:31 AM
  #114
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JamieG obviously does not "Bleed Blue". Anyone who does actually knows the value of players like Sobotka. Each team has one guy who grinds, works very hard and their consistancy contributes greatly to the team. Boat is one of those guys. He flies under the radar until he turns the corner and has a breakout year. His work ethic and consistancy reminds me of, in a lesser way, Steen's development. Only those who have kept track of his track record in the Note saw what was coming, and even they were blown away by how quickly he picked up and ran with it.

The Blues only need one thing: For everyone to contribute and play a full 60, every game. That and that alone is what is hindering this team and contributing to failure.

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12-23-2013, 02:19 AM
  #115
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if pang didn't mention sobotka so much, i bet he wouldn't be so highly rated on here. He is the quintessential third line player, winger or center. He works hard, he plays smart, he plays with heart. He should not be confused with players who look more nonchalant, yet give us more offensive potential and diversity like berglund and stewart and roy. Schwartz seems amazing because he has sobotka's drive and style, and he also has a killer shot and good hands. Schwartz is worthy on the top two lines, Sobotka is a great fill in... but his real value is being one of the best third liners in the league.

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12-23-2013, 02:24 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieG View Post
Just in case anyone missed it (because in fairness I did take a lot of abuse for this thread) the Blues without Sobotka haven't missed a beat and just played 2 great games. Also, players I specifically said would thrive without Sobotka have done just that...Roy, Morrow and Lapierre are all contibuting.

If a legitmate top 6 forward is acquired as a rental near the deadline the Blues would be stupid to not make Sobotka the expendable piece that is subtracted.
And we also lost against the Sharks and Sens without him in the lineup, what's your point?

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12-23-2013, 02:48 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by The Red Viper View Post
And we also lost against the Sharks and Sens without him in the lineup, what's your point?
Sobotka winning a puck battle with dwight king on the boards won't solve the problem of backes's or stewart's or whoever's subsequently errant pass results in a justin williams breakaway..... OR the problem of a game winning shot from the point

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieG View Post
Just in case anyone missed it (because in fairness I did take a lot of abuse for this thread) the Blues without Sobotka haven't missed a beat and just played 2 great games. Also, players I specifically said would thrive without Sobotka have done just that...Roy, Morrow and Lapierre are all contibuting.

If a legitmate top 6 forward is acquired as a rental near the deadline the Blues would be stupid to not make Sobotka the expendable piece that is subtracted.
Sobotka is till probably not the go-to expendable piece. With the depth we have, I would rather have sobotka on the third line than roy or stewart. We are not going to get a top sixer for sobotka and he is much more valuable to our system than he would be in trade value. I don't quite understand what rental you think we could get for sobotka, because once we start giving up other top six players in that deal, our team becomes worse

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12-23-2013, 03:40 AM
  #118
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I love watching the snot fly out of the noses of players when he cranks them. I luv that little Russian guy.

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12-23-2013, 05:56 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Fred Murtz View Post
I love watching the snot fly out of the noses of players when he cranks them. I luv that little Russian guy.
If you are referring to Vladimir Sobotka, don't call him a Russian, to his face. He might take exception to that, as he is a Czech. They have no love for the Russians after 45 years of terrible oppression (1945-1990).

If you were referring to Tarasenko, it would bt wise to not call him "little", to his face.

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12-23-2013, 06:12 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Robb_K View Post
If you are referring to Vladimir Sobotka, don't call him a Russian, to his face. He might take exception to that, as he is a Czech. They have no love for the Russians after 45 years of terrible oppression (1945-1990).

If you were referring to Tarasenko, it would bt wise to not call him "little", to his face.

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12-23-2013, 06:16 AM
  #121
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My, my,-you are awake very early!

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12-23-2013, 06:23 AM
  #122
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My, my,-you are awake very early!
Punch the clock quite early... The older I get, the earlier I get up..??? I guess I'm following your tracks...

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12-23-2013, 10:20 AM
  #123
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Punch the clock quite early... The older I get, the earlier I get up..??? I guess I'm following your tracks...
I don't get up early.

I stay up late!

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12-23-2013, 10:25 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by JamieG View Post
Just in case anyone missed it (because in fairness I did take a lot of abuse for this thread) the Blues without Sobotka haven't missed a beat and just played 2 great games. Also, players I specifically said would thrive without Sobotka have done just that...Roy, Morrow and Lapierre are all contibuting.

If a legitmate top 6 forward is acquired as a rental near the deadline the Blues would be stupid to not make Sobotka the expendable piece that is subtracted.
So...because the Blues beat an Eastern team, which we usually do, and beat the bottom dwelling Oilers that we thrive without Sobotka. Do you even watch this team play. The fact that you think Roy, Morrow, and Lapierre make him expendable is laughable. Roy and Morrow are on one years deals. They won't even be here next year for Christ's sake.

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12-23-2013, 10:34 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue247 View Post
So...because the Blues beat an Eastern team, which we usually do, and beat the bottom dwelling Oilers that we thrive without Sobotka. Do you even watch this team play. The fact that you think Roy, Morrow, and Lapierre make him expendable is laughable. Roy and Morrow are on one years deals. They won't even be here next year for Christ's sake.
See if I can explain, since this last run of injuries occurred with varying results everyone can be traded, except Reeves because we all know they would have beaten everyone if he was healthy.

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