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McKenzie on Expansion: Vegas and possibly beyond 32?

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Old
01-17-2014, 07:57 PM
  #551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevFu View Post
The NCAA is not going to put a regional in Las Vegas.

Consider that they're so hard up for western venues that they have used campus venues:
Utah: 15,000
New Mexico: 14,831 to 15,411
Arizona: 14,545
Boise St: 12,480
San Diego St: 12,414
Spokane Arena: 12,210
Weber St: 11,500

UNLV's Thomas & Mack Center holds 18,776, but Las Vegas has NEVER hosted the NCAA Tournament. Even though Las Vegas is a convention city, much like New Orleans (which has hosted the NCAA MBB Tournament eight times in the last 20 years the venues were operational. BTW, the NCAA "encourages" hosts to not serve alcohol and every city/arena complies with the request except New Orleans!)

So that's clearly where the NCAA draws the line: Reluctantly after New Orleans' booze availability, but well before Las Vegas. If they'll put the tournament at Weber State and not UNLV, they ain't NEVER giving it to Las Vegas.
Maybe you're right. Of course, a league with the relative integrity of the Pac-12 plays their tournaments there; the only real question is if T&M even bid for it. Your argument is a lot of energy for a once-in-3-years possibility. Besides, I did say "grown its expectations," as in from the arenas you cite to more recent venues.

The gist of the comment stands, however. You can justify building the arena without the need for a pro sports tenant.

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02-02-2014, 08:53 AM
  #552
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An NHL team in Vegas would be epic!

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02-02-2014, 03:59 PM
  #553
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Meh, Vegas seems a bit too much. If anything make it the primary destination If Glendale/Arizona falls apart again. I'd rather another team in the midwest like Houston or KC with Seattle being the primary target.

I figure the primary reason NHL wants to target the the midwest and northwest is so they can even out the conferences.

I do feel bad for Quebec. It now it looks like they are being put on the backburner. It seems like it was just a year or so ago when Bettman was sweet-talking them about getting a team.


Last edited by Cirris: 02-02-2014 at 04:04 PM.
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Old
02-02-2014, 04:55 PM
  #554
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Meh, Vegas seems a bit too much. If anything make it the primary destination If Glendale/Arizona falls apart again. I'd rather another team in the midwest like Houston or KC with Seattle being the primary target.

I figure the primary reason NHL wants to target the the midwest and northwest is so they can even out the conferences.

I do feel bad for Quebec. It now it looks like they are being put on the backburner. It seems like it was just a year or so ago when Bettman was sweet-talking them about getting a team.
If KC had a ownership group interested and support from the local government they would have a team. Houston has issues with the arena since its being owned by Rockets owner.

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02-02-2014, 05:16 PM
  #555
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The mayor of Quebec City a few days back and hinted that in 2015 Quebec will get a club.It was mentioned in newspapers in Quebec

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02-02-2014, 06:18 PM
  #556
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The mayor of Quebec City a few days back and hinted that in 2015 Quebec will get a club.It was mentioned in newspapers in Quebec
link?

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Old
02-02-2014, 06:24 PM
  #557
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Posted downstream, in the Quebec thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by thom View Post
According To TVA the mayor of Quebec City is almost certain of nhl team in city by 2015.Web site is tvasports.ca
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=608

Edit/add

http://tvasports.ca/hockey/lnh/nordi...-2015-30012014


Last edited by Major4Boarding: 02-02-2014 at 06:57 PM. Reason: Added actual link to video
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Old
02-02-2014, 09:33 PM
  #558
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Originally Posted by OurBigFatWallet View Post
An NHL team in Vegas would be epic!
The story of the Coyotes has been "epic". Epic could mean many things, not all positive. And yes, a team in Las Vegas could be epic.

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Old
02-05-2014, 12:43 AM
  #559
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Could a schedule work with 33 teams?
33 makes it a schedule nightmare...

ideally you want 34 teams or 36 teams.

With 34 teams you could go with 2 8 teams divisions/conferences and 2 9 team divisions or conference or a 17 team conference where 1 diviison has 5 teams and the other has 4.

With 36 teams you could go with the 6 6 team divisions or 9 4 team divisions (either 3 conferences of 3 divisions, or 1 conferences of 4 divisions, the other with 5 divisions. the other option is for 8 divisions with half having 4 teams and half having 5 teams.

for scheduling it would be each playing 20-22 divisional games.

Having too many teams would then limit how many divisional games you could have if you just go with an 82-84 game schedule with home and home with each team.

In a 36 team league.....(9 4 team divisions)

Home and home with each team for 35 x 2 =70 games ...an additional 4 games against the 3 divsional teams = 12 games= 82 games.

For playoffs you could say the 9 division winners earn and automatic bid then the top 15 non division winners based of a 70 game commongame record in the elague earns playoff spots. The top 8 diviision winners earn byes then the remaining 16 play a best of 5 series.second round is a best of 5, then the remaining series are best of 7 series.

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02-05-2014, 08:15 AM
  #560
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33 makes it a schedule nightmare...

2 games against everyone: 64
+ 2 games against everyone in your 11 team division: 84


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02-05-2014, 08:32 AM
  #561
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Yeah 33 is easy for regular season. Curious how the playoffs would be sorted? Top 16 with the division winners getting the top 3 spots? Top four in each division plus 4 wild cards? Do you play out of your time zone in round one?

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02-05-2014, 08:37 AM
  #562
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8 in each division until you get down to 3, at which point the top team gets a buy into the Final.


Last edited by DyerMaker66: 02-05-2014 at 08:44 AM.
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02-05-2014, 08:39 AM
  #563
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
8 in each division until you get down to 3, at which point the top team gets a buy into the Final.
What an awful idea. No sport should ever have a team get a bye into the final series. It would also decrease the prestige the NHL playoffs currently have as being the hardest to get through.

Plus, you're talking about a 5 round playoffs, overall. Scheduling doesn't work there either.

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02-05-2014, 08:44 AM
  #564
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What an awful idea. No sport should ever have a team get a bye into the final series. It would also decrease the prestige the NHL playoffs currently have as being the hardest to get through.

Plus, you're talking about a 5 round playoffs, overall. Scheduling doesn't work there either.
You're talking as though the decision was made arbitrarily, and why does it matter where the buy falls in the schedule? If you earned the buy, then you earned it fairly. There's no *****footing around it.

Yes, adding more teams into the mix and requiring the best teams to win the same amount of games will surely decrease the Stanley Cup's prestige.

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02-05-2014, 09:11 AM
  #565
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Trying to be reasonable, since the league obviously wants all the Eastern Time Zones teams isolated from needing to play on the west coast too much:

31 teams: 8,8,8,7. East Conf: H/H with west (30). 3 with interdiv(24). 4 intradivision (28). West Conf. H/H with east (32). 3 with interdiv(21 or 24). Remainder intradivision (for the 7 team division this is 26 games so 4x6 + 2 extra) (for the 8 team division, this is 29, so it's a 4x8 +1, with some special arrangement made to accommodate the one extra game). Playoffs as now.

32: 8,8,8,8. Maybe here we get the H/H with everyone else=48. Then 34 games in your division, playoffs only intradivision.

33: 8,8,8,9 (There is very little chance to have an 11,11,11 setup because of the difficulty in writing the playoff structure to protest Detroit from playing, in order, LA, SJ and then Colorado, for instance). I think an 8889 would be h/h against everyone, and the rest in your division. 8-team divs: 50 + 32(4x5 + 3x4). 9-team div: 48 +34(6x4 + 2x5).

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02-05-2014, 09:11 AM
  #566
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EXPANSION:
-Seattle
-Las Vegas

RELOCATION:
-Quebec City
-Milwaukee/Kansas City
(to avoid a war I will omit to name the teams implicated in the relocation)

32 teams, 16 teams per conference, 8 divisions, 4 teams per division

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Old
02-05-2014, 09:23 AM
  #567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
You're talking as though the decision was made arbitrarily, and why does it matter where the buy falls in the schedule? If you earned the buy, then you earned it fairly. There's no *****footing around it.

Yes, adding more teams into the mix and requiring the best teams to win the same amount of games will surely decrease the Stanley Cup's prestige.
Getting a bye (not a buy) in the first round is a far, far different thing than not having to compete against another team trying to make the finals. Also, having a full 7-14 days off between rounds is not a benefit during the playoffs. No team would want the bye. If no team wants it, it isn't a reward. If it isn't a reward, why give it to the top team?

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02-05-2014, 10:15 AM
  #568
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Getting a bye (not a buy) in the first round is a far, far different thing than not having to compete against another team trying to make the finals. Also, having a full 7-14 days off between rounds is not a benefit during the playoffs. No team would want the bye. If no team wants it, it isn't a reward. If it isn't a reward, why give it to the top team?
I don't know about this - the notion of the rested/fatigued team screams confirmation bias and false narrative.

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Old
02-05-2014, 10:44 AM
  #569
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
You're talking as though the decision was made arbitrarily, and why does it matter where the buy falls in the schedule? If you earned the buy, then you earned it fairly. There's no *****footing around it.

Yes, adding more teams into the mix and requiring the best teams to win the same amount of games will surely decrease the Stanley Cup's prestige.
If you really want 24 teams, you give the top 8 teams a bye (top-2 in each division, next 2 teams) and come up with some way to pair off the other 16 against each other. From there, you'd have 16 teams and then it's the standard tournament format.

The challenge here: setting up the pairings in the 1st round, how those teams get paired off against the teams with byes, and doing it all in a way that doesn't render the regular season standings within each division largely meaningless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpine4life View Post
EXPANSION:
-Seattle
-Las Vegas

RELOCATION:
-Quebec City
-Milwaukee/Kansas City
(to avoid a war I will omit to name the teams implicated in the relocation)

32 teams, 16 teams per conference, 8 divisions, 4 teams per division
I don't know that Milwaukee can handle an NHL team long-term. Kansas City may be the better bet of the two, and I'm not totally sold on it either.

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02-05-2014, 11:30 AM
  #570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpine4life View Post
EXPANSION:
-Seattle
-Las Vegas

RELOCATION:
-Quebec City
-Milwaukee/Kansas City
(to avoid a war I will omit to name the teams implicated in the relocation)

32 teams, 16 teams per conference, 8 divisions, 4 teams per division

For a more stable league, should be

EXPANSION:
-Seattle
-Hamilton (yes in the West)

RELOCATION:
-Quebec City
-Markham

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02-05-2014, 11:47 AM
  #571
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For a more stable league, should be

EXPANSION:
-Seattle
-Hamilton (yes in the West)

RELOCATION:
-Quebec City
-Markham
Well, that would definitely lose me as a fan. One extra team in the Toronto-Southern Ontario market might drive me away; two definitely would. Not to mention that it would make ten teams in Canada and I'm not sure there should be more than two or three.

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02-05-2014, 11:48 AM
  #572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2525 View Post
For a more stable league, should be

EXPANSION:
-Seattle
-Hamilton (yes in the West)

RELOCATION:
-Quebec City
-Markham
on this horribly snowy day in the hammer today, with car crashes everywhere and folks plodding thru drifting snow, desperately covering frozen faces, this warmed me up a bit .... mostly because it's true ...

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Old
02-05-2014, 01:00 PM
  #573
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Well, that would definitely lose me as a fan. One extra team in the Toronto-Southern Ontario market might drive me away; two definitely would. Not to mention that it would make ten teams in Canada and I'm not sure there should be more than two or three.
Good God, man...good thing you aren't too specific on your location, or your countrymen on here might stop by to burn your house down.

[MOD]


Last edited by Major4Boarding: 02-05-2014 at 01:49 PM. Reason: 1st one I let go... 2nd one, not so much
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02-05-2014, 03:53 PM
  #574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpine4life View Post
EXPANSION:
-Seattle
-Las Vegas

RELOCATION:
-Quebec City
-Milwaukee/Kansas City
(to avoid a war I will omit to name the teams implicated in the relocation)

32 teams, 16 teams per conference, 8 divisions, 4 teams per division
Only PHX can move within the next 10 years. Everyone else has cozy, comfy leases in pretty new buildings. Well, except EDM & CAL. But I doubt we're talking about them.

The league is going to want 34 or 36 to expand into QUE.

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02-05-2014, 03:56 PM
  #575
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Originally Posted by 2525 View Post
For a more stable league, should be

EXPANSION:
-Seattle
-Hamilton (yes in the West)

RELOCATION:
-Quebec City
-Markham
And why would you expand into Seattle and not Markham, where the fees would be higher for the league?

PHX moves to SEA, and expand into Southern Ontario.
But you'd need to put both Hamilton AND Markham in the West.

You still don't have anyone who's moving to QC though.

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