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Oneill to Toronto done deal

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Old
07-30-2005, 10:15 PM
  #76
TrueBlue
 
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JFJ, you're doing alright.

O'Neil for a 4th, good job. I don't know why I'm thinking of Wendel when I see O'Neil. Not that they look alike, but having that right winger with a somewhat similar style to Wendel.

I guess I've always waited for someone to fill Clark's position there and I'm excited about O'Neil there.

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07-30-2005, 10:16 PM
  #77
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give him #93

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07-30-2005, 10:19 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueBlue
Tom Kurvers was this big lanky center.
You're thinking of Tom Fergus (or Tom Virus as we used to call him)

He was OK but was always sick with Mono and such...a little bit of a slow skater as well


(we got him for Bill Deralgo from Boston)

Waaaaayyyy of topic.

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07-30-2005, 10:27 PM
  #79
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no it was Tom Kurvers

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07-30-2005, 10:30 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Blue_and_White
no it was Tom Kurvers
Yes the DEFENSEMAN....we traded our #1 pick for that ended up being Niedermayer.

I was correcting someone who said he was a centre..he wasn't a centre he was a defenseman.

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07-30-2005, 10:32 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
I can't imagine the leafs without Newy and Roberts .. I like the idea of them back because they are both great leaders an role models for young players ..

I think both players will be retained post NHL careers in fact in the role of prospect development ..

The O'Neill deal virtually makes Roberts one of his best friends a huge lure to resign and we already know about Gary and Joe ..

Depends on what they want .. Hopefully $$$ will not be an issue ..

I think the odds are good they return IMO .. lets see if they attract other UFA as well .. Lindros, Murray and Allison are all rumoured to be interested in TO ..

Leafs don't have lots of cap room so it will be interesting if nothing else ..
You wouldn't have to lure either Roberts or Nieuwendyk, if JFJ wanted them they would come, plain and simple.

The question is, does he want them? I might take Roberts back as long as he didn't play on the top line. I say buh-bye to Domi and Nieuwy though.

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07-30-2005, 10:37 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cob
You wouldn't have to lure either Roberts or Nieuwendyk, if JFJ wanted them they would come, plain and simple.

The question is, does he want them? I might take Roberts back as long as he didn't play on the top line. I say buh-bye to Domi and Nieuwy though.
Lure in the form that the Leafs may/will have to offer him less money then Florida and or Anaheim to stay .. O' Neill is a nice little incentive to make that happen Now !!!

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07-30-2005, 10:47 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Lure in the form that the Leafs may/will have to offer him less money then Florida and or Anaheim to stay .. O' Neill is a nice little incentive to make that happen Now !!!
That will happen natually. Players are watching their payscale drop dramatically and are taking notice. Roberts is a 40 year old player... I think he would stay for a reasonable salary to be able to finish his career as a Leaf regardless.

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07-30-2005, 10:49 PM
  #84
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isnt there a roberts oneill connection from their carolina days?

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Old
07-30-2005, 10:52 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p.l.f.
isnt there a roberts oneill connection from their carolina days?
Yes, it's been mentioned many times I think.

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07-30-2005, 11:02 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cob
You wouldn't have to lure either Roberts or Nieuwendyk, if JFJ wanted them they would come, plain and simple.

The question is, does he want them? I might take Roberts back as long as he didn't play on the top line. I say buh-bye to Domi and Nieuwy though.
Joe and Gary are both 39 to start the season.

That has to be a concern.

Allison and Lindros both have injury histories, another concern.

If Joe and Gary came at a bargain price of say 1 million per, I'd say go for it.

Heck, if they can land, Eric, Jason, Gary, Joe for 5 million I'd be happy.

$9=Gary-Sundin-Jeff
$5=Jason-Joe-Eric
$3.5=Tucker-Antropov-Stajan
$1.5=Poni-Kilger-Domi
Forwards: $19


$5.8=Kaberle-McCabe
$2.4=Pilar-Klee
$1.5=Berg-Colaiacovo
0.5=Prospect D-man
Defense: $10.2

$5.1=Belfour-Tellqvist

Around $34.3 million

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07-30-2005, 11:09 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
Joe and Gary are both 39 to start the season.

That has to be a concern.

Allison and Lindros both have injury histories, another concern.

If Joe and Gary came at a bargain price of say 1 million per, I'd say go for it.

Heck, if they can land, Eric, Jason, Gary, Joe for 5 million I'd be happy.

$9=Gary-Sundin-Jeff
$5=Jason-Joe-Eric
$3.5=Tucker-Antropov-Stajan
$1.5=Poni-Kilger-Domi
Forwards: $19


$5.8=Kaberle-McCabe
$2.4=Pilar-Klee
$1.5=Berg-Colaiacovo
0.5=Prospect D-man
Defense: $10.2

$5.1=Belfour-Tellqvist

Around $34.3 million
not bad

but antropov and kilger at centre over allison and stajan?

and why not spend some of the 5 left to get another dman?

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Old
07-30-2005, 11:10 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger

Steen and Wellwood !!!!!!

I am not sure about Kilger and Belak either ..

Lets substitute Allison and Lindros shall we
I'll give you Wellwood but Steen needs to do his time with the marlies. Of coarse it won't be a hassle calling him up if he excels in the ahl now that the empire is centralized.

But I'll agree wellwood needs at least a shot at cracking the line up.

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Old
07-30-2005, 11:11 PM
  #89
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Has anyone thought about Gonchar maybe being lured by Klee? They were defence partners in Washington weren't they? Maybe put them together and keep McCabe and Kaberle together.

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Old
07-31-2005, 12:05 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rand
Even with that taken into account it seems an unusually cheap return, Todd White brought back a 95th overall selection, and I doubt many are going to argue White is a better player then O'Neill even taking O'Neill's 2.8M qualifying offer into account.
Rand...are you serious. Todd White is not better than O'Neill. Here are the pro stats of both players:

Jeff O'Neill - Age 29
1996-97 Hartford Whalers NHL 72 14 16 30 40 -- -- -- -- --
1997-98 Carolina Hurricanes NHL 74 19 20 39 67 -- -- -- -- --
1998-99 Carolina Hurricanes NHL 75 16 15 31 66 6 0 1 1 0
1999-00 Carolina Hurricanes NHL 80 25 38 63 72 -- -- -- -- --
2000-01 Carolina Hurricanes NHL 82 41 26 67 106 6 1 2 3 10
2001-02 Carolina Hurricanes NHL 76 31 33 64 63 22 8 5 13 27
2002-03 Carolina Hurricanes NHL 82 30 31 61 38 -- -- -- -- --
2003-04 Carolina Hurricanes NHL 67 14 20 34 60 -- -- -- -- --
NHL Totals 673 198 218 416 552 34 9 8 17 37

Todd White - Age 30
2000-01 Ottawa Senators NHL 16 4 1 5 4 2 0 0 0 0
2001-02 Ottawa Senators NHL 81 20 30 50 24 12 2 2 4 6
2002-03 Ottawa Senators NHL 80 25 35 60 28 18 5 1 6 6
2003-04 Ottawa Senators NHL 53 9 20 29 22 7 1 0 1 4
2004-05 Sodertalje SK SEL 1 0 1 1 4 -- -- -- -- --
NHL Totals 276 65 94 159 100 39 8 3 11 16

The stats back up the fact that O'Neill is better and a year younger.

JFJ made a fantastic move today.

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Old
07-31-2005, 12:12 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidley
Rand...are you serious. Todd White is not better than O'Neill. Here are the pro stats of both players:

Yes, I'm serious. I think you need to re-read my post though

I said "I doubt many are going to argue White is a better player then O'Neil".
ie. Few are going to argue that White is a better player, because it's pretty clear he's not.

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Old
07-31-2005, 12:20 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidley
Rand...are you serious. Todd White is not better than O'Neill. Here are the pro stats of both players:

Jeff O'Neill - Age 29
1996-97 Hartford Whalers NHL 72 14 16 30 40 -- -- -- -- --
1997-98 Carolina Hurricanes NHL 74 19 20 39 67 -- -- -- -- --
1998-99 Carolina Hurricanes NHL 75 16 15 31 66 6 0 1 1 0
1999-00 Carolina Hurricanes NHL 80 25 38 63 72 -- -- -- -- --
2000-01 Carolina Hurricanes NHL 82 41 26 67 106 6 1 2 3 10
2001-02 Carolina Hurricanes NHL 76 31 33 64 63 22 8 5 13 27
2002-03 Carolina Hurricanes NHL 82 30 31 61 38 -- -- -- -- --
2003-04 Carolina Hurricanes NHL 67 14 20 34 60 -- -- -- -- --
NHL Totals 673 198 218 416 552 34 9 8 17 37

Todd White - Age 30
2000-01 Ottawa Senators NHL 16 4 1 5 4 2 0 0 0 0
2001-02 Ottawa Senators NHL 81 20 30 50 24 12 2 2 4 6
2002-03 Ottawa Senators NHL 80 25 35 60 28 18 5 1 6 6
2003-04 Ottawa Senators NHL 53 9 20 29 22 7 1 0 1 4
2004-05 Sodertalje SK SEL 1 0 1 1 4 -- -- -- -- --
NHL Totals 276 65 94 159 100 39 8 3 11 16

The stats back up the fact that O'Neill is better and a year younger.

JFJ made a fantastic move today.

Read what he said again.

he doubts anyone would make the argument of White>O'Niell

Meaning O'Niell>White

but White got a better pick.

hell Fedoruk got a 2nd rounder.

like someone on the Bruins board said

The New NHL where Enforcers are worth 2nd & 3rd rounders and 40 goal scorers are worth 4th rounders.

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Old
07-31-2005, 12:20 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rand
Yes, I'm serious. I think you need to re-read my post though

I said "I doubt many are going to argue White is a better player then O'Neil".
ie. Few are going to argue that White is a better player, because it's pretty clear he's not.
Ok ... the way you worded it made me wonder. Sorry.

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Old
07-31-2005, 03:33 AM
  #94
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But if we signed up Joe, Gary, Antro, Allison and Eric, we have a lineup with a combination of age and tons of past injuries histories...I would rather spend money/energy to find a great dman...is Ralfalski (of new jersey) better than Kaberle anyway? I think Ralfalski was a Toronto native..

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Old
07-31-2005, 03:56 AM
  #95
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Rafalski or Foote would be the ideal Free Agents to go after and sign. You can always find adequate scoring forwards. O'Neil and Sundin already make up 2/3's of the first line. Antropov and Poni make up 2/3's of the Second line. Stajan, Wellwood, Kilger, and Steen could also fill forward positions. Defence wins games. Start with that and then fill the forward positions.

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07-31-2005, 06:15 AM
  #96
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What about something like this, I've done it in stages so that if you find something particularly off kilter or stupid it can be rectified at that part rather than scrapping the whole idea. I very well may be underestimate/overestimate salaries, as I cannot garner if Jeff's signing will effect the market, or be seen as an isolated situation.

The forwards are very hard to call, since we only have 4 signed. Sundin/Tucker/Stajan and the newest Leaf.

Mats Sundin $6.84 million
*Owen Nolan $5,627,047
Ed Belfour $4.56 million
Bryan McCabe $3.458 million
Tomas Kaberle $2.28 million
Ken Klee $1.9 million
Darcy Tucker $1.596 million
Matt Stajan $805,600

Approx 21, 439 (note I cut Nolan out of this total)

Add in Jeff, and for the sake of simplicity, we're at 22 million, with 17 million to play with.

So, 2 centres and a winger. If we get either Allison or Lindros (I'm iffy about both, but quite frankly I don't think we'd offer them much cash, so it's little risk). That would leave us with 3 c's, and IMO we could bring Steen up, though I'm not sure if Quinn would be comfortable with 2 young C's with Stajan/Steen. Plus, I really can't see Steen being effective on anything but the top 2 lines. So, we'll move Stajan off of C, which isn't to his benefit, but we can find some better players to fill his slot. I'd also resign Joey, for lets say 1 mil (might be too little)

I'll also assume Allison for 1 mil, and Steen for 700k.

Sundin
Allison
Joey
Steen (don't like him here but w/e)

I'm not a big fan of having Tucker on the first line, so I'd put him on the second with Allison, and I'd put Jeff with Sundin on the right.

blank Sundin O'Neill
Tucker Allison blank
blank Joey blank
Stajan Steen Blank

24.7 Million spent.

Resign Antropov, Poni, Kilger, for 8/7/7 hunderd thousand each respectively. Sign Roberts for 1 mil, again perhaps a bit of an underestimation. Domi for 1 mil (again perhaps too low, but not in my opinion)

28.9 mil spent, and the lines.

Roberts/Sundin/O'Neill
Tucker/Allison/blank
Poni/Nieuy/Antropov (did pretty well last year)
Stajan/Steen/Domi

Reserve: Kilger

I'd then chase a premier FA forward to fill in the right side of line 2. Then, depending on the cash left over, look for a solid D-man like Foote. Sign Coli, and then I don't care who the 6th is.

That's my rough idea..

Note that I'm also trying to retain some cap flexibility, but if a good offer came along for some good players, cheap, I'd be all over it.

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Old
07-31-2005, 06:19 AM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crump
You're thinking of Tom Fergus (or Tom Virus as we used to call him)

He was OK but was always sick with Mono and such...a little bit of a slow skater as well


(we got him for Bill Deralgo from Boston)

Waaaaayyyy of topic.

Oh you're right! How did you know I was thinking of Fergus? Maybe the way I described him. That was pretty good on your part. You're one real Leaf fan if I ever saw one.

Yeah, same dark years. It seemed we always were expecting more out of Fergus but just never happened.

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Old
07-31-2005, 06:38 AM
  #98
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i think if we pick up Allison he becomes our #1 C and Sundin moves to LW
From what i remember the coaching staff and maybe Sundin want him at LW and say its his natural position, they were trying to experiment with Antropov centering Sundin but obviously the talent is not there to allow it, but if Allison can return to form that would definetely work

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07-31-2005, 08:04 AM
  #99
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FINALLY! I can get on the board.

I loved this deal, first I looked through the draft because I had to leave. I was kinda disappointed that Syvret went right before us (like Pat ) Then I saw O'Niell for a 4th rounder! and then 1.5 per season wow.


But what does it mean when it says conditional 4th, whats the condition?

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07-31-2005, 08:13 AM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skittles.TML
FINALLY! I can get on the board.

I loved this deal, first I looked through the draft because I had to leave. I was kinda disappointed that Syvret went right before us (like Pat ) Then I saw O'Niell for a 4th rounder! and then 1.5 per season wow.


But what does it mean when it says conditional 4th, whats the condition?

If O'Neil scores a certain amount of goals I think we then owe the Canes a third round pick or something like that.

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