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Old
12-18-2013, 12:04 AM
  #26
Sonny21
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
The Leafs don't need a panic move, but they do need a top to bottom evaluation of every piece in the organization, because since 2008, something wonky has been built up, and someone needs to take a long and hard look to determine if it can amount to anything.

No one player, coach or manager is especially to blame, but how many of them fit into the recipe of a championship?

What's up with this horrible development system? What the hell do Loiselle and Poulin do all day? What does that Jim Hughes do for player development? Who in Dave Morrison's staff is responsible for picking all these dud prospects? Why is the roster not a reflection of the type of game the coach wants to play? Who in management wants the team to play the way the coach wants to? What does the team's leadership group look like, why are so many catastrophic meltdowns occurring? Why is nobody motivated to do their jobs?

I think there's something off with this whole organization, something needs to be flushed out. It would be amazing to have a proven winner come in and just right the ship. Imagine a Scotty Bowman or a Larry Robinson, or someone from a winning organization that can just shake out the issues.
Well put.

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12-18-2013, 12:06 AM
  #27
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this is dumb..... last thing nonis did (besides Holland trade) was sign clarkson and bozak. idk if those are positive things, so id just wait for the year to play out... try n grab some picks at the TD and then draft high

panic moves never work out.

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12-18-2013, 12:07 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by goonx View Post

Fire the coach? great. now we will tank the season since the team has to learn a new system in half a season. it's extremely rare for a team that changed coaches to make the playoffs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Bylsma

Bylsma won the cup first year as a coach. He came in mid season when Pens couldn't buy a win.

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12-18-2013, 12:16 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Anthrax442 View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Bylsma

Bylsma won the cup first year as a coach. He came in mid season when Pens couldn't buy a win.
I keep thinking about this. Maybe a new coach would wake these guys up and get our season turned around. I do like what Carlyle brought last year but more and more last year is looking like smoke in mirrors.

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12-18-2013, 12:19 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
The Leafs don't need a panic move, but they do need a top to bottom evaluation of every piece in the organization, because since 2008, something wonky has been built up, and someone needs to take a long and hard look to determine if it can amount to anything.

No one player, coach or manager is especially to blame, but how many of them fit into the recipe of a championship?

What's up with this horrible development system? What the hell do Loiselle and Poulin do all day? What does that Jim Hughes do for player development? Who in Dave Morrison's staff is responsible for picking all these dud prospects? Why is the roster not a reflection of the type of game the coach wants to play? Who in management wants the team to play the way the coach wants to? What does the team's leadership group look like, why are so many catastrophic meltdowns occurring? Why is nobody motivated to do their jobs?

I think there's something off with this whole organization, something needs to be flushed out. It would be amazing to have a proven winner come in and just right the ship. Imagine a Scotty Bowman or a Larry Robinson, or someone from a winning organization that can just shake out the issues.
It's pretty hilarious that the Leafs probably have the most executives, and probably pay the most for said executives, and this is the on-ice product we get.

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Old
12-18-2013, 12:26 AM
  #31
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When Phaneuf's on the ice, I can be confident that there wont be a stupid turnover by him that will lead to a goal. And if there is one, more often than not, he will recover to stop the scoring chance. I can't say the same thing for the 5 other defensemen on our team. Even Gunnarsson's, who's normally cool calm and collected, has been weak on the puck this season.

Plus, I can't remember the last time he shot the puck into someone's shin guards while making the point shot. That and his ability to keep the puck in the offensive zone are things that the rest of the defense corps needs to learn. It's become like Sundin back in the day where he would have to carry the burden--but Phaneuf is a tier lower than Sundin and defense is a more important position. We need a calming presence if we are to sniff the playoffs.

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12-18-2013, 01:00 AM
  #32
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Our main pieces are all talented (some more than others) yet flawed castaways from other teams.

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12-18-2013, 01:02 AM
  #33
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The team is a bit too comfortable. Move a few of the more popular dressing room players.

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12-18-2013, 01:06 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by T M L View Post
I agree with this. The answer is certainly not too sign another Clarkson contract to Phaneuf at $7Mx7. He is not a good leader or a top #1 D in the NHL.

Nonis should put Phaneuf on the market and just take the best offer. We got him for scraps anyway.
Actually the numbers prove you argument wrong, but why let facts get in the way of a personal bias, right?

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12-18-2013, 01:10 AM
  #35
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One horrific night by Dion doesn't negate his outstanding play since Carlyle took over.

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12-18-2013, 01:11 AM
  #36
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Nonis do something? How can he, ISNT LIEWEKE HANDS ON THE WHEEL TOO?

WHY IS BODIE PLAYING?? Oh, he is Son in law to Lieweke. Is he FULL TIME NOW???? Ashton is much, much better. How is that possible then? Makes one wonder who is saying what/.

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12-18-2013, 01:14 AM
  #37
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It's time to fire Carlyle. For one, his system isn't a good fit for the current roster we have. Which are a bunch of explosive skaters who are forced into playing his style thus limiting their capabilities.

Secondly, it could/would breathe new life into the team. Bring in someone which character...Avs are doing it with Roy, why can't we?

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12-18-2013, 01:16 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by StringsAttached View Post
It's time to fire Carlyle. For one, his system isn't a good fit for the current roster we have. Which are a bunch of explosive skaters who are forced into playing his style thus limiting their capabilities.

Secondly, it could would breathe new life into the team. Bring in someone which character...Avs are doing it with Roy, why can't we?
To me they have quit on the coach. I thought this a month ago. Injuries no, they didnt have Bolland last year. Notice Grabovski and MacArthur, threw Carlyle under the bus? U think those are the only 2? Doubt it, its probably a trend in that room. They play like they quit on him, like they want him gone. With Bodie stapled in the lineup as below AHL player, I wonder if Lieweke is trying to step on Nonis toe's and have him play his son in law. I can not from a pure hockey standpoint see any other reason why Bodie is there.

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12-18-2013, 01:17 AM
  #39
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Our main pieces are all talented (some more than others) yet flawed castaways from other teams.
Like they have some sort of debilitating handicap? Or the Ebola Virus? Can't tell if serious...

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12-18-2013, 01:23 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by mapleleaf979 View Post
To me they have quit on the coach. I thought this a month ago. Injuries no, they didnt have Bolland last year. Notice Grabovski and MacArthur, threw Carlyle under the bus? U think those are the only 2? Doubt it, its probably a trend in that room. They play like they quit on him, like they want him gone. With Bodie stapled in the lineup as below AHL player, I wonder if Lieweke is trying to step on Nonis toes.
I think you're onto something. I was watching 24/7 and in the 'bagel malfunction scene' the guys were giving Randy no mind and ignoring him, talking to him like he was their father and not their friend lmao

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12-18-2013, 01:23 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by StringsAttached View Post
Like they have some sort of debilitating handicap? Or the Ebola Virus? Can't tell if serious...
Kessel. - talented but too soft for Boston. Fair enough, the guy is still too soft. He's done good work turning into a more complete player, but the compete level and his willingness to give up on the puck are too evident.

Phaneuf - Traded for locker room reasons ( we can assume safely).

Lupul - while talented, the guy is an accident waiting to happen. How long till his next injury?

These are three core players with big question marks.

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12-18-2013, 01:31 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Ratboy View Post
Kessel. - talented but too soft for Boston. Fair enough, the guy is still too soft. He's done good work turning into a more complete player, but the compete level and his willingness to give up on the puck are too evident.

Phaneuf - Traded for locker room reasons ( we can assume safely).

Lupul - while talented, the guy is an accident waiting to happen. How long till his next injury?

These are three core players with big question marks.
I think JVR is more of a core player than Lupul. Don't get me wrong I love Lupes but like you said his health is a concern so we take him out of the picture.

Phaneuf has been a workhorse, he's been a warrior but and he's made his errors (how quickly people forget when he shutdown Crosby). Instead of a retool get this man a #2 shutdown guy and he'll be able to play his more dominating/offensive game.

Kessel is a sniper, always has been (albeit with some playmaking skill). He'll never be a Crosby but if we can get him a #1C there would be literally no threat greater than for a Getlaf(?)/type player driving the net and getting it to Kessel streaking on the right wing with a clear shot at the net. We'll regret letting him go because we wouldn't be able to replace him.

If we get that #2 and #1 then we're contenders. For now just fire Carlyle.

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12-18-2013, 01:34 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by StringsAttached View Post
I think JVR is more of a core player than Lupul. Don't get me wrong I love Lupes but like you said his health is a concern so we take him out of the picture.

Phaneuf has been a workhorse, he's been a warrior but and he's made his errors (how quickly people forget when he shutdown Crosby). Instead of a retool get this man a #2 shutdown guy and he'll be able to play his more dominating/offensive game.

Kessel is a sniper, always has been (albeit with some playmaking skill). He'll never be a Crosby but if we can get him a #1C there would be literally no threat greater than for a Getlaf(?)/type player driving the net and getting it to Kessel streaking on the right wing with a clear shot at the net. We'll regret letting him go because we wouldn't be able to replace him.
I agree with JVR being a bigger part of the core moving forward.

I;m ok with Phaneuf - I think his main deficit is his hockey iq.

Kessel is very talented, but I'm tired of him *****footing around players. You play in the NHL, man the **** up already.

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12-18-2013, 01:41 AM
  #44
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I agree with JVR being a bigger part of the core moving forward.

I;m ok with Phaneuf - I think his main deficit is his hockey iq.

Kessel is very talented, but I'm tired of him *****footing around players. You play in the NHL, man the **** up already.
I agree, I said it before he should get in the corners and get a little greasy or finish a check once in a while. However, the benefits of getting him a competent center far outweigh the cons of leaving him on the roster or trading him.

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12-18-2013, 01:45 AM
  #45
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I agree, I said it before he should get in the corners and get a little greasy or finish a check once in a while. However, the benefits of getting him a competent center far outweigh the cons of leaving him on the roster or trading him.
Its weird, we had Sundin for years and years, looking for that winger to play with him. Well we have him now, and Mats is retired in Sweden.

I don't even care if he actually checks guys, he'll never be a physical force, but his effort in common puck battles is pathetic. He just gives up and starts to coast off somewhere else.

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12-18-2013, 08:02 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by mapleleaf979 View Post
To me they have quit on the coach. I thought this a month ago. Injuries no, they didnt have Bolland last year. Notice Grabovski and MacArthur, threw Carlyle under the bus? U think those are the only 2? Doubt it, its probably a trend in that room. They play like they quit on him, like they want him gone. With Bodie stapled in the lineup as below AHL player, I wonder if Lieweke is trying to step on Nonis toe's and have him play his son in law. I can not from a pure hockey standpoint see any other reason why Bodie is there.
If anything I think the Clarkson deal was a Tim deal. Nonis looked really strange when that signing happened almost uncomfortable and the Bodie thing. You got that right we got another blow hard in upper management who will dip his fingers into the team and tinker.

I hate when stupid people and organizations tinker with sports teams. It always goes sour.

The best owners are rich self made millionaires who love hockey and want a team because they want to say they have a Stanley cup ring. Usually these owners are smart and are not afraid to right potentially disastrous moves by a GM via a block.

The leafs have corporate representatives that look at how much a certain name will sell in merchandise and make decisions not necessarily based on winning. See: Clarkson

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12-18-2013, 08:09 AM
  #47
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He might not be the problem but he is not the solution. Not as the captain anyway, and he strikes me as a guy who would have a problem giving up said captaincy, therefore, the only solution is to trade him now while he still has pretty good value.
1 player can't do everything by himself, especially a defensemen . He NEEDS help on the blueline, that doesn't make him a bad player or someone who can't drive this team on defense. When you don't have enough good D behind you, its difficult to keep things in line and under control

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12-18-2013, 08:14 AM
  #48
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To be honest, I think we look unbelievably bad up the middle. We're missing 2 of our top 3 centres. Say what you will about Kadri, he's a good offensive centre, but he doesn't do what Bozak does on that top line. He also wins next to no faceoffs.
Bolland was huge for us in the 15 games he played.

Right now we're forced to playing a young, inexperienced centres in important situations. Save for McClement Kadri is the only centre above 50 NHL games.

We're losing faceoffs in offensive situations, and getting out manned down low with the centres we have. IMO that's our biggest problem.

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12-18-2013, 08:15 AM
  #49
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We need too shake things up. 17 out of a possible 44 points since Nov 1st is pathetic. I really think it starts at the top. If you compare our captain to the captain's of the last 10 Stanley cup winners, perhaps more, he is not a captain that can win a team a cup. It's time to move on and not handcuff ourselves for the next decade. Nonis, please step up and shake this team up with a great trade starting from the top...

Discuss.
If you think one guy is responsible for the leadership on a team, you've clearly never played a team sport.

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12-18-2013, 08:18 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by mapleleaf979 View Post
To me they have quit on the coach. I thought this a month ago. Injuries no, they didnt have Bolland last year. Notice Grabovski and MacArthur, threw Carlyle under the bus? U think those are the only 2? Doubt it, its probably a trend in that room. They play like they quit on him, like they want him gone. With Bodie stapled in the lineup as below AHL player, I wonder if Lieweke is trying to step on Nonis toe's and have him play his son in law. I can not from a pure hockey standpoint see any other reason why Bodie is there.
They didn't have Bolland last year but they also still had Grabo and Mac, two guys who complained that the coach gave them crap. Really? Sounds more like children wanting their hands held . They wanted NO accountability what so ever and you're on THEIR side? What about the other guys who left and said nothing? Why focus on two crybabies ? What about Frattin and Scrivens who didn't say anything?What about Komarov or Kostka? O'Byrne, Brown,Colborne, or Steckel? No but you want to focus on 2 loud mouths. Like they say, the loudest are the ones who get the attention

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Originally Posted by StringsAttached View Post
I think you're onto something. I was watching 24/7 and in the 'bagel malfunction scene' the guys were giving Randy no mind and ignoring him, talking to him like he was their father and not their friend lmao
Would you want to befriend your boss? In fact, who does? Your boss(the coach) is your boss afterall.He is the teacher(supposed to be) and the players are the students who are supposed to listen and do as they're told. Some bosses/teachers are cool but theres a line there that isn't really supposed to be crossed and doesn't happen or at least very often. Also, if you're bringing up 24/7 why did you ignore the part where the players actually are fine with the way Carlyle coaches and infact said"they need it"? Oh but you'll just say"what player will talk badly about their coach" then its all fine and dandy everyone hates him right? Who cares if one clip the players weren't all going "AHAHA YOU'RE STUPID CARLYLEZ OMGZ!!1" ... worst thing to be complaining about

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