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Old
12-18-2013, 10:02 AM
  #101
New Liskeard
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Originally Posted by happyaccident View Post
13th in goals/game, 27th in shots/game.
30th in shots against/game, which also has a lot to do with the ineptness of the forwards defensively.

That's a top tier offence?
As obvious as that is, you cant see the facts in front of you? 13th overall in offence is clearly adequate in generating offence. Not scoring enough goals is not the issue. Another little secret for you. with the forwards being bad defensively as you claim, you probably weren't aware but two of the Leafs top 3 centers have been injured over a period of time, and those centers happen to be the better defensive forwards on the team, and significantly better defensively than Kadri. Pretty hard to be a good defensive minded team when arguably your top defensive centers are out for a period of time.

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12-18-2013, 10:03 AM
  #102
DougGilmour93
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Here'e what needs to happen...


1) Fire Carlyle

2) If Nonis doesn't fire Carlyle, he must make some deals that make sense for this team.

3) If Nonis can't pull the trigger on any deals than hopefully Nonis get's fired himself.

4) New GM comes in, they usually want to bring in their new coach.

5) Hopefully this would put us in a new direction that would see us be guarenteed a playoff spot.

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12-18-2013, 10:03 AM
  #103
drewski1988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happyaccident View Post
I've seen every game, thanks. If you think the play of the forwards isn't a problem as well, I wonder what you've been watching.
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
The play of the forwards is not what is losing them games ultimately. I guess top 10 in the NHL and 3rd in their conference for goals for, is not good enough? I guess being number 1 in the NHL for GF is what they need to do to win? I like your lipstick on a pig theory.
Yes, but most of those goals for came when we were winning in the beginning of the season with an easier schedule.

Oct: 14 Games Played: 47 Goals For. Goals per game: 3.357
Nov: 13 Games Played: 25 Goals For. Goals per game: 1.923
Dec: 9 Games Played: 23 Goals For. Goals per game: 2.555

The December stats are just for argument sake considering there's still 5 games left to be played, and they had a uncharacteristic night against Chicago in which they score almost 1/3rd of the month's goals.

So besides for a great first month, in which they were 3.357 Goals/Game, they're doing terrible. Nov/Dec Goals per game is actually 2.181 which would put them in 29th overall in the league, just ahead of Buffalo at 1.62.

So yes, the forwards are a huge part of the problem.

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12-18-2013, 10:05 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Glenn Healy View Post
Nazem Kadri is a top 6 center. Bozak and Bolland are top 9 centers
Not on this leafs teams they are not. Strange, Kadri is a top 6 center but has played very poorly with Kessel and JVR, yet Bozak isn't a top 6 but has performed very well on the top line and is missed by his team mates.?

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12-18-2013, 10:05 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
Forwards and the offence is fine. Its the defence; so not sure what you are going on about with the forwards. Watch a game or two and you will see.
So because someone disagrees with you, they haven't watched any games huh? Aren't you tired of that tired cliche?

Do you honestly believe that the forwards have nothing to do with the overall defense of this team?

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Old
12-18-2013, 10:06 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by leafs in five View Post
Nonis's cousin said it and it's quoted in the post you responded to.
Im not interested in what Dreger said. I quoted your post, and proved your incorrect. Dreger has nothing to do with it.

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12-18-2013, 10:09 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
Not on this leafs teams they are not. Strange, Kadri is a top 6 center but has played very poorly with Kessel and JVR, yet Bozak isn't a top 6 but has performed very well on the top line and is missed by his team mates.?
11 points in 16 games for Bozak
22 points in 32 games for Kadri

Both suck at faceoffs. Difference is, Bozak played all 16 games with Kessel and JVR

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12-18-2013, 10:10 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
Here is a fact for you. The Leafs were one of the best teams in the entire NHL at the beginning of the season when healthy. Since then they have been bad. If you want to argue the leafs cant handle adversity or cant overcome injury, it may be the only time I actual agree with you. Otherwise, blowing up the team and making a knee jerk reaction because some fans are impatient is not prudent. The Leafs have proven to be a very good team when healthy, why not let them get healthy to see of they can regain their form.
No, Nonis should not be blowing up the team. However, it is fair to say that this team was not good when healthy. They only won games because their goalies were standing on their heads and the offense was clicking. Do you honestly think that allowing 50 shots a night in the playoffs and weak defense can win you a playoff series. This team does need a major overhaul on defense and maybe a forward who isn't soft. JVR is huge but plays a soft game, and we all know how soft Kessel is and Kadri plays on edge inconsistently. Our defense needs a good stay at home guy who has foot speed and can keep up with the stars of the league. Gardiner has no hockey IQ whatsoever, he even has this lost look on his face when he's on the ice. Gunnarson is not a first pairing defenseman at all and Franson blew it because he will have contract issues again if continues to play like this. A few tweaks here and there and we should be a better team.

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Old
12-18-2013, 10:11 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by drewski1988 View Post
Yes, but most of those goals for came when we were winning in the beginning of the season with an easier schedule.

Oct: 14 Games Played: 47 Goals For. Goals per game: 3.357
Nov: 13 Games Played: 25 Goals For. Goals per game: 1.923
Dec: 9 Games Played: 23 Goals For. Goals per game: 2.555

The December stats are just for argument sake considering there's still 5 games left to be played, and they had a uncharacteristic night against Chicago in which they score almost 1/3rd of the month's goals.

So besides for a great first month, in which they were 3.357 Goals/Game, they're doing terrible. Nov/Dec Goals per game is actually 2.181 which would put them in 29th overall in the league, just ahead of Buffalo at 1.62.

So yes, the forwards are a huge part of the problem.
Yes, the begining of the season when they had nearly a healthy lineup, the oposite to what they have right now. Easy schedule is a weak argument and an excuse, very often we see lesser teams beat stronger teams on a nightly basis. So how much of that is relevant to the fact the Leafs are missing two of their top 3 centers?

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Old
12-18-2013, 10:14 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Healy View Post
11 points in 16 games for Bozak
22 points in 32 games for Kadri

Both suck at faceoffs. Difference is, Bozak played all 16 games with Kessel and JVR
How about a bigger sample size, or would that be contrary to your agenda. You also seem to fail to mention the PK play and defensive role Bozak plays vs Kadri. Seems you forgot some facts in your response. How about Bozaks faceoff percentage last year vs Kadri, I know they both "suck" according to you, but by all means support your claim.


Last edited by New Liskeard: 12-18-2013 at 10:23 AM.
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12-18-2013, 10:15 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafs in five View Post
Dreger "Nonis isn't going to waive a magic wand and have a deal materialize. Leafs asking price for Gardiner is a top-six forward"

it's really a shame that no top-six forwards were available this offseason.


Lol gold

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Old
12-18-2013, 10:17 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewski1988 View Post
Yes, but most of those goals for came when we were winning in the beginning of the season with an easier schedule.

Oct: 14 Games Played: 47 Goals For. Goals per game: 3.357
Nov: 13 Games Played: 25 Goals For. Goals per game: 1.923
Dec: 9 Games Played: 23 Goals For. Goals per game: 2.555

The December stats are just for argument sake considering there's still 5 games left to be played, and they had a uncharacteristic night against Chicago in which they score almost 1/3rd of the month's goals.

So besides for a great first month, in which they were 3.357 Goals/Game, they're doing terrible. Nov/Dec Goals per game is actually 2.181 which would put them in 29th overall in the league, just ahead of Buffalo at 1.62.

So yes, the forwards are a huge part of the problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
Yes, the begining of the season when they had nearly a healthy lineup, the oposite to what they have right now. Easy schedule is a weak argument and an excuse, very often we see lesser teams beat stronger teams on a nightly basis. So how much of that is relevant to the fact the Leafs are missing two of their top 3 centers?
I agree some of the problem is we are missing Bozak and Bolland, however injuries cannot be the entire fault. I hate bringing up other teams, but when a team loses a player of Stamkos' skill, you expect the team to dip, and lose some offense...yet I don't see Tampa struggling without Stamkos as much as the Leafs are without Bozak and Bolland. When Stamkos went down with injury he had more points than Bozak and Bolland COMBINED. So injuries can't be held accountable for the entire offence save for Kessel drying up almost completely.

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12-18-2013, 10:21 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by drewski1988 View Post
I agree some of the problem is we are missing Bozak and Bolland, however injuries cannot be the entire fault. I hate bringing up other teams, but when a team loses a player of Stamkos' skill, you expect the team to dip, and lose some offense...yet I don't see Tampa struggling without Stamkos as much as the Leafs are without Bozak and Bolland. When Stamkos went down with injury he had more points than Bozak and Bolland COMBINED. So injuries can't be held accountable for the entire offence save for Kessel drying up almost completely.
There are two sides to this argument. Are the Leafs unable to overcome adversity and injury, as you alluded to in your above post, and win hockey games? That is fair and hard to argue against. On the other side of the coin, scoring goals has not been a problem for the Leafs, however defensive play has. Proof is in the pudding they played very well with Bolland and Bozak, and instead of blowing things up and screaming chicken little, I would like to see the Leaf have those players back, see how they play as a team, before making any rash knee jerk comments.

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12-18-2013, 10:21 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
How about a bigger sample size, or would that be contrary to your agenda. You also seem to fail to mention the PK play and defensive role Bozak plays vs Kadri. Seems you forgot some facts in your response.
Bozak 245gp 145pts -40 wait isn't top lines suppose to score more than be scored on?

Kadri 131gp 85pts +5 and is still a kid.

That's their careers. We can scratch broken seasons and first years If you want but that won't bode well for Bozak I don't think

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12-18-2013, 10:23 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by BetterCallSaul View Post
#firecarlyle


or make a major trade. this team needs to hit the rest button ASAP.

The way they've played in some games lately they've already hit the rest button!

And yes, I know you meant to type 'reset'.

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12-18-2013, 10:24 AM
  #116
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Center injuries isn't even an excuse. They had a damn good center and they ditched him for cap space.
In order to keep a dman who Ol' Dump n' Chase refuses to even play.
And to spend huge on a guy who:
can't score
can't pass
can't accept a pass
lightweight fighter
falls all the time trying to hit the bigger, stronger fellas

So they tried to fix what wasn't broken and did nothing to address what was broken (the defense). And some of you guys still make excuses for them.

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12-18-2013, 10:24 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
Im not interested in what Dreger said.
then don't reply to the post about what he said?

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12-18-2013, 10:25 AM
  #118
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How is phaneuf like 54th in points for a defenceman and still has 0 Power play goals?

Is that not ridiculously alarming going forward? His offense has dried right up.

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Old
12-18-2013, 10:27 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by theremedial View Post
Bozak 245gp 145pts -40 wait isn't top lines suppose to score more than be scored on?

Kadri 131gp 85pts +5 and is still a kid.

That's their careers. We can scratch broken seasons and first years If you want but that won't bode well for Bozak I don't think
Well clearly that resolves that. Kadri is a much better player than Bozak by a mile. What is strange is how such a great center cant get Kessel going or JVR yet an inferior talent in Bozak can and does? How about the defensive play, how much PK time does Kadri get? Kadri has had ample opportunity with Lupul on the wings, Kessel and JVR, yet they all faired much worse with Kadri?

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12-18-2013, 10:28 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by leafs in five View Post
then don't reply to the post about what he said?
I responded to your smart ass post, not dregers.

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12-18-2013, 10:29 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
There are two sides to this argument. Are the Leafs unable to overcome adversity and injury, as you alluded to in your above post, and win hockey games? That is fair and hard to argue against. On the other side of the coin, scoring goals has not been a problem for the Leafs, however defensive play has. Proof is in the pudding they played very well with Bolland and Bozak, and instead of blowing things up and screaming chicken little, I would like to see the Leaf have those players back, see how they play as a team, before making any rash knee jerk comments.
Now I agree 100% with you on something. Now is NOT the time to make a dumb panic trade to improve the club in the short term. This team has shown it can play well at certain times this season. The team just needs some re-tooling. IMO, guys like Orr, McClaren cannot keep up. I feel we're a better team with guys like D'Amigo and Bodie in the lineup. Bodie can skate, hit and even fight the odd time if need be.

Ranger and Fraser clearly cannot keep up and are getting outskated night in and night out. Rielly and Liles belong in the lineup because usually they can skate themselves out of trouble. Liles not being in the NHL from the start of the season is a complete joke.

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12-18-2013, 10:29 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
Well clearly that resolves that. Kadri is a much better player than Bozak by a mile. What is strange is how such a great center cant get Kessel going or JVR yet an inferior talent in Bozak can and does? How about the defensive play, how much PK time does Kadri get? Kadri has had ample opportunity with Lupul on the wings, Kessel and JVR, yet they all faired much worse with Kadri?
why would you ask for a bigger "sample size" if you don't care about what it demonstrates?

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12-18-2013, 10:29 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
Well clearly that resolves that. Kadri is a much better player than Bozak by a mile. What is strange is how such a great center cant get Kessel going or JVR yet an inferior talent in Bozak can and does? How about the defensive play, how much PK time does Kadri get? Kadri has had ample opportunity with Lupul on the wings, Kessel and JVR, yet they all faired much worse with Kadri?
Doesn't change the fact that Bozak is no nearly good enough either. And the fact that Kessel can only get it going with that little scrub is very alarming to me for a player that just signed 8mil per for 8 years.

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12-18-2013, 10:31 AM
  #124
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71 point pace last 30 games. That alone should get a coach fired. Ironically, Burke would have loved to fire a coach with the HBO cameras rolling. Would boost his ego.

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12-18-2013, 10:33 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by drewski1988 View Post
Yes, but most of those goals for came when we were winning in the beginning of the season with an easier schedule.

Oct: 14 Games Played: 47 Goals For. Goals per game: 3.357
Nov: 13 Games Played: 25 Goals For. Goals per game: 1.923
Dec: 9 Games Played: 23 Goals For. Goals per game: 2.555

The December stats are just for argument sake considering there's still 5 games left to be played, and they had a uncharacteristic night against Chicago in which they score almost 1/3rd of the month's goals.

So besides for a great first month, in which they were 3.357 Goals/Game, they're doing terrible. Nov/Dec Goals per game is actually 2.181 which would put them in 29th overall in the league, just ahead of Buffalo at 1.62.

So yes, the forwards are a huge part of the problem.
Eliminate the outlier, Dec 8 games 16 goals 2.0 gpg

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