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Brayden Schenn (no supplementary discipline to Wilson); Lecavalier update (12/19)

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Old
12-19-2013, 05:40 PM
  #201
MiamiScreamingEagles
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Mild-mannered Sam @ the Inq. is plenty upset on Twitter:
  1. Again, the NHL suspension system is a JOKE. If a player isn't hurt, the offender gets zilch. That logic will indirectly ADD to injuries.
  2. Wilson started charging at Schenn from Center City. Schenn's head snapped into boards. That's dirty. And should have been suspension-worthy.
  3. So if Schenn was concussed. Wilson would have been suspended? It was a dangerous, dirty play -- regardless of Schenn's health.
  4. No discipline for Wilson. System is laughable.

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Last edited by MiamiScreamingEagles: 12-19-2013 at 05:57 PM.
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Old
12-19-2013, 05:41 PM
  #202
Jtown
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Id like to say wilson will get his next game we play, but really who do we have to square up against him?

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12-19-2013, 05:42 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
There is language within the rules that regarding players who put themselves in a vulnerable position under the infraction of boarding. One description by Shanahan that I thought was awkward is when he said Wilson "stopped skating" when he got to the top of the circle. At no point do I see that.
While I agree that Schenn slightly turning did put him in a vulnerable position, even if he didn't turn he would have been in a vulnerable position because he still would gone head first into the boards.

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12-19-2013, 05:45 PM
  #204
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After listening to Shanahan's explanation I think it's safe to assume that we will continue to see hits like this until someone is either paralyzed or killed.

I'm actually amazed that he said that the distance travelled issue is rendered moot because Wilson only decided to make the hit on Schenn after he was in the offensive zone. So basically, you can skate as far and as fast as you want to and crush someone, as long as you say that you only decided to kill the guy at the last minute.

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12-19-2013, 05:45 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by StoneHands View Post
I dont understand the description of boarding. He states that because Schenn turned that it isn't boarding. Since when does boarding have to be from behind?
It doesn't. It's boarding if the player is defenseless.

Boarding A boarding penalty shall be imposed on any player who
checks or pushes a defenseless opponent in such a manner that
causes the opponent to hit or impact the boards violently or
dangerously. The severity of the penalty, based upon the impact with
the boards, shall be at the discretion of the Referee.

Nothing about it being from behind.

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12-19-2013, 05:47 PM
  #206
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They keep mentioning:

'not injured on the play' (mitigating or fully acquit)

'victim caused or exacerbated problem' (mitigating or fully acquit, onus etc)

A negligence lawyer is surely going to have a field day with some of those videos at some point?! I don't know US law very well outside of certain Supreme Court stuff... but those two phrases make me cringe in the context of the recent discourse on player safety. Thin skull rule and causation aspects of tort in UK law come to mind.

Not saying it is right, and many negligence cases are egregious to say the least, and many negligence lawyers are morally bankrupt, but surely the NHL are treading a thin line already in regards to litigation?

'So you recognised at the time that the play was dangerous and illegal but merited no future or further discouragement as the victim was partially responsible? There is also the assertion that here that as 'nothing bad came of it' such a situation is lesser in gravity?' 'Surely such a situation was foreseeable in similar circumstances yet there was no further onus on the protection of the victim from a circumstance they have no part in the instigation of?' 'That would seem to belie your insistence that adequate measures and attitudes were in place to discourage such reckless behaviour, encourage respect or promote universal player safety.'

The NFL have got the memo and now fine most semi-illegal plays to cover their arses. That in my mind is wrong as well. But it is the world we live in.

Wilsons hit could have definitely caused a serious injury though... and was an illegal play, so it is surprising that kind of thing is not more entwined in their reasoning both from a safety and litigation perspective.

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12-19-2013, 05:47 PM
  #207
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what the hell?

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12-19-2013, 05:47 PM
  #208
GKJ
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Originally Posted by JackStraw View Post
After listening to Shanahan's explanation I think it's safe to assume that we will continue to see hits like this until someone is either paralyzed or killed.
Likely. We avoided that so far with icing though.


What I disagree with is the idea that it wasn't charging. If you line a player up from halfway up the rink, it's charging. That clearly happened. I don't need a diagram of X's and O's from a supposedly neutral party that serves as judge, jury, and executioner as to the tactics and intentions of the three players on the line.

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12-19-2013, 05:48 PM
  #209
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He didn't even see him clearly. Ofc if you slow down the video by .10x time (like Shanny did) then it'll look like Schenn saw him fully and made the decision (whether conscious or instinctual) to turn around. But he saw maybe a quarter or half of Wilson...a millisecond before the train.

Poor decision by Shanhan and it's extremely debatable whether he was head-hunting when he got off the bench. I think he was but Shanny does not. Just take a look at his player role, the momentum of the game, and the previous hits beforehand by players from the Caps as well as by Rinaldo and Luke Schenn. Read the atmosphere. Jesus.

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12-19-2013, 05:51 PM
  #210
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This is the full boarding wording per NHL rules:

Quote:
41.1 Boarding – A boarding penalty shall be imposed on any player or goalkeeper who checks or pushes a defenseless opponent in such a manner that causes the opponent to hit or impact the boards violently in the boards. The severity of the penalty, based upon the impact with the boards, shall be at the discretion of the Referee.

There is an enormous amount of judgment involved in the application of this rule by the Referees. The onus is on the player applying the check to ensure his opponent is not in a defenseless position and if so, he must avoid or minimize the contact. However, in determining wheter such contact could have been avoided, the circumstances of the check, including whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position immediately prior to or simultaneously with the check or whether the check was unavoidable can be considered. This balance must be considered by the Referees when applying this rule.

Any unnecessary contact with a player playing the puck on an obvious “icing” or “off-side” play which results in that player hitting or impacting the boards is “boarding” and must be penalized as such. In other instances where there is no contact with the boards, it should be treated as “charging.”

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12-19-2013, 05:54 PM
  #211
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Likely. We avoided that so far with icing though.


What I disagree with is the idea that it wasn't charging. If you line a player up from halfway up the rink, it's charging. That clearly happened. I don't need a diagram of X's and O's from a supposedly neutral party that serves as judge, jury, and executioner as to the tactics and intentions of the three players on the line.
That is what is really unexplainable from my view as well.

So if you just say you only decided to hit a player at the last second despite coming from the next zip code that is not charging, even if you maintain speed? That is highly untenable in my opinion.

I suppose after believing Neal's 'I jumped to try and avoid hitting a 6'3 player' excuse they will believe anything though!

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12-19-2013, 05:55 PM
  #212
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The Charging and Boarding rules need to be re-written so that the discretionary areas are more clearly defined and put into a specific framework (Rule 48 is a good example).

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12-19-2013, 05:57 PM
  #213
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Id like to say wilson will get his next game we play, but really who do we have to square up against him?
Berube will whisper into Steve Downies good ear; don't do anything stupid. But his bad ear will over hear it will hear the dark hidden meaning in everyone's heart. All the bad ear will hear is the night wind can always carry one more scream, fetch me his soul!

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12-19-2013, 06:02 PM
  #214
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Berube will whisper into Steve Downies good ear; don't do anything stupid. But his bad ear will over hear it will hear the dark hidden meaning in everyone's heart. All the bad ear will hear is the night wind can always carry one more scream, fetch me his soul!
Poetic brilliance. Well done.

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12-19-2013, 06:04 PM
  #215
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Shannan is a ****ing idiot. He needs to get checked thru the board from behind. What a dick smack.

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12-19-2013, 06:04 PM
  #216
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Berube will whisper into Steve Downies good ear; don't do anything stupid. But his bad ear will over hear it will hear the dark hidden meaning in everyone's heart. All the bad ear will hear is the night wind can always carry one more scream, fetch me his soul!
I got a good laugh out of this. Especially if you imagine Downie replying "You got it, Coach!" Downie hops on the ice, pleased to have a sense of direction. Berube is pleased that his loose cannon player isn't primed to explode. Then his pleasure turns to horror as Downie kicks Wilson straight in the stomach.

Shanahan gives it a phone hearing in response, 2 game suspension. The universe then collapses into a singularity of hatred.

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12-19-2013, 06:07 PM
  #217
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RoDu, what ever inspired you to write that post, please for our sake don't let go of that inspiration.

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12-19-2013, 06:08 PM
  #218
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That video was pure horse ****. They might as well have added a "she was wearing that skirt, so she deserved it" for good measure. The victim blaming is at moronic levels in that one.

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12-19-2013, 06:10 PM
  #219
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That video was pure horse ****. They might as well have added a "she was wearing that skirt, so she deserved it" for good measure. The victim blaming is at moronic levels in that one.
The thin skull rule obviously does not really apply to hockey either.

Take your victim as you find them... then plough them headfirst into the boards.

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12-19-2013, 06:12 PM
  #220
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The NHL will go on for a while about putting responsibility on the hitter, not the guy getting hit. They'll do a good job of it for a while. Then I guess Shanahan will eat a bad oyster and forget they're pushing this whole "player safety and respect" thing. This isn't the first non-discipline that makes one scratch their head.

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12-19-2013, 06:26 PM
  #221
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That is what is really unexplainable from my view as well.

So if you just say you only decided to hit a player at the last second despite coming from the next zip code that is not charging, even if you maintain speed? That is highly untenable in my opinion.

I suppose after believing Neal's 'I jumped to try and avoid hitting a 6'3 player' excuse they will believe anything though!
Well, Neal still did get suspended. Even if they bought it, he was still held responsible for it. Whether or not the punishment was severe enough is a different argument (and one I certainly wouldn't argue with someone making that point)

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12-19-2013, 06:29 PM
  #222
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Well, Neal still did get suspended. Even if they bought it, he was still held responsible for it.
Yeh, I know... I just found that video hilarious.

Neal obviously vastly overestimated his leg strength instead of jumped into a check... if he legitimately thought jumping would have avoided that hit he should go to the Olympic trials!

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12-19-2013, 06:47 PM
  #223
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Schenn certainly hasn't looked too sharp tonight.

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12-19-2013, 06:50 PM
  #224
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Schenn certainly hasn't looked too sharp tonight.
It doesn't help that he started with the hockey IQ of a brick. Add potential brain damage and you have a lower life form on skates.

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12-19-2013, 06:52 PM
  #225
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Isn't this his 3rd or 4th concussion?

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