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Upper Management needs to be criticized here

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Old
12-18-2013, 09:48 AM
  #76
achtungbaby
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Corsi is catching up to us. Regressing to the mean. In other words, we had these same problems last year but our luck has ran out.

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Old
12-18-2013, 09:51 AM
  #77
Stringer Bell
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For the first time in a long time, I don't see too much of a problem with management...other than the Clarkson signing (which is a big gaff).

Nonis/Burke put together a pretty good roster in my opinion. Yes, we need a number one center, but even without one...and even with our injuries...our roster is still good enough on paper to compete harder and be more successful than they have been.

That's an issue with coaching. I've always liked Carlyle, but at some point you need to look at it as SIMPLY as it really is. What is his job? To win games. Is he doing his job? No. So, he should be fired.

He's been given the players to get the job done, but he isn't. He isn't using them effectively or correctly. If he was, we would be winning games.

A coaching change is the only logical change.

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12-18-2013, 09:52 AM
  #78
Mess
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Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Signing Clarkson is going to ruin this teams ability to be contender for YEARS!

Nonis done ****ed up.
They are projecting the cap to go up over $80 mil in the next 3-4 years = +$20.

At that point Clarkson's $5 mil of $80 mil cap = ~6% of the teams spending ability and a mere drop in the bucket.

Even if they put him in the AHL his remaining $4mil wouldn't cripple the team. Nonis had > $9 mil in the AHL last year in Connolly and Komisarek and still made the playoffs.

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Old
12-18-2013, 09:53 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Glenn Healy View Post
To this day, I still don't understand how some fans can continually blame a coach, a certain player to the success and failure of the team. They are all minions/tools

We can fire coaches all we want (from Maurice to Wilson to Carlyle) or we can boo a certain player out of town but it doesn't solve the root of the problem. It wont change a single thing. One player/coach isn't the difference between a no mans land team and a Stanley Cup contender

It never will until this organization realizes that the way they are building this team is flawed

Just using the present time at the example, I don't think a team can succeed by just playing a North South game. Weak puck possession. How do you even blame RC for this? I am quite sure this is not RCs type of style. This is the collection of players that have been ensemble by management.

ex. How can RC suddenly turn guys like Raymond, Kessel, Lupul, Kadri from being primary North South players to becoming complete players? Yes players can get better but the way they play can only change so much

The cupboard of this farm system is bare. How do you even blame RC for this? They haven't drafted well for years now. We continually overpay free agents. Its disgusting

I am tired of hearing people aim their frustration at one player or at the coach
Look here mister, LeafLanders were positively correct with their pinpoint accuracy in establishing Ron Wilson's culpability in the failures of the team and absolutely veridical in calling for his expulsion. The teams turnaround since then has been a full 360 if you think about it. Listen to LeafLand my friend they know of which they speak

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Old
12-18-2013, 10:03 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Yosho View Post
What I'm struggling with is the sudden lack of any defensive system. Last year, I praised Carlyle because it appeared that him, his coaches, and his players all had bought into a defensive game rather than the famous Ron Wilson run-and-gun style.

Then, in a matter of 10 minutes of Game 7... it's gone. It hasn't been seen in the 30+ games this year, either. Why? Why? Why?

Am I missing something here?
Perhaps the traumatic experience and effects of game 7 still haunt this young team and they have not yet recovered.

The previous season they played with confidence and spirit and now they play like their defeated and fragile before the puck even drops in most games.

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Old
12-18-2013, 10:19 AM
  #81
Gobias Industries
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
They are projecting the cap to go up over $80 mil in the next 3-4 years = +$20.

At that point Clarkson's $5 mil of $80 mil cap = ~6% of the teams spending ability and a mere drop in the bucket.

Even if they put him in the AHL his remaining $4mil wouldn't cripple the team. Nonis had > $9 mil in the AHL last year in Connolly and Komisarek and still made the playoffs.
Is the cap going up for every team, or just the Leafs?

Bad contracts are bad regardless of the cap, while the effect of Clarkson's contract will be diminished, it will still be noticable.

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Old
12-18-2013, 10:26 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Glenn Healy View Post
To this day, I still don't understand how some fans can continually blame a coach, a certain player to the success and failure of the team. They are all minions/tools

We can fire coaches all we want (from Maurice to Wilson to Carlyle) or we can boo a certain player out of town but it doesn't solve the root of the problem. It wont change a single thing. One player/coach isn't the difference between a no mans land team and a Stanley Cup contender

It never will until this organization realizes that the way they are building this team is flawed

Just using the present time at the example, I don't think a team can succeed by just playing a North South game. Weak puck possession. How do you even blame RC for this? I am quite sure this is not RCs type of style. This is the collection of players that have been ensemble by management.

ex. How can RC suddenly turn guys like Raymond, Kessel, Lupul, Kadri from being primary North South players to becoming complete players? Yes players can get better but the way they play can only change so much

The cupboard of this farm system is bare. How do you even blame RC for this? They haven't drafted well for years now. We continually overpay free agents. Its disgusting

I am tired of hearing people aim their frustration at one player or at the coach
This post is very reminiscent of the many, and still today, constant criticisms of Leafs management from Glenn Healy after he wasn't taken seriously by MLSE as a candidate for GM. The bruised ego still remains today.

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Old
12-18-2013, 10:28 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
This post is very reminiscent of the many, and still today, constant criticisms of Leafs management from Glenn Healy after he wasn't taken seriously by MLSE as a candidate for GM. The bruised ego still remains today.
So much that it overshadows some of the truth in those paragraphs?

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Old
12-18-2013, 10:30 AM
  #84
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For those who say a coach won't make a difference, juts look at Florida's turn-around.

And if it doesn't make a difference, what's the point in having a coach!?

To me, I see systems that aren't working and RC has no answers. I see a team that won't compete in one single game for a full 60 minutes. And often they don't compete for the entire game - just don't show up at all. I see very little toughness, shinny-hockey type mistakes over and over. I see frustrated players who seem to have lost energy. They ain't buying in

Nonis didn;t go out and get Clarkson, Bolland, and Bernier and HOPE to make the playoffs.
Something has to be done before it's too late. We've seen this movie before

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Old
12-18-2013, 10:45 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by chilfactor View Post
For those who say a coach won't make a difference, juts look at Florida's turn-around.

And if it doesn't make a difference, what's the point in having a coach!?

To me, I see systems that aren't working and RC has no answers. I see a team that won't compete in one single game for a full 60 minutes. And often they don't compete for the entire game - just don't show up at all. I see very little toughness, shinny-hockey type mistakes over and over. I see frustrated players who seem to have lost energy. They ain't buying in

Nonis didn;t go out and get Clarkson, Bolland, and Bernier and HOPE to make the playoffs.
Something has to be done before it's too late. We've seen this movie before

The coach of a team is a minion. They are there to manage a team but have little influence to the way players play and how a team is constructed from top to bottom. Coaches don't draft players nor do they sign free agents

A coach may want to implement a certain system but if the overall team is constructed in a very flawed way, there is little a coach can do to change the style of each individual player

They play a style of hockey that doesn't allow them to control the game much less play 60 strong minutes. The players are doing the best they can, they just aren't very good

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Old
12-18-2013, 10:47 AM
  #86
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So then it's up to the coach to adapt to his team, and play to their strengths. Not to force his system down their throats when it clearly isn't working, and hasn't been for months.
Coaches also have input into the way a team is constructed

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Old
12-18-2013, 10:48 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chilfactor View Post
For those who say a coach won't make a difference, juts look at Florida's turn-around.

And if it doesn't make a difference, what's the point in having a coach!?

To me, I see systems that aren't working and RC has no answers. I see a team that won't compete in one single game for a full 60 minutes. And often they don't compete for the entire game - just don't show up at all. I see very little toughness, shinny-hockey type mistakes over and over. I see frustrated players who seem to have lost energy. They ain't buying in

Nonis didn;t go out and get Clarkson, Bolland, and Bernier and HOPE to make the playoffs.
Something has to be done before it's too late. We've seen this movie before
what turn around is this? 2 weeks of good hockey? ..this stuff is killing me

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Old
12-18-2013, 10:51 AM
  #88
SAMCRO44
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It was just an example.
What's your suggestion Mr Smug?

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Old
12-18-2013, 10:51 AM
  #89
Glenn Healy
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Originally Posted by chilfactor View Post
So then it's up to the coach to adapt to his team, and play to their strengths. Not to force his system down their throats when it clearly isn't working, and hasn't been for months.
Coaches also have input into the way a team is constructed
This team plays a North South game. This type of game wont succeed over an 82 game season and into the playoffs no matter what coach you have. Again coaches are just tools and don't have much impact on the team

Nonis/Burke/Fletcher/JFJ all struggle to build a roster that can succeed

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Old
12-18-2013, 11:10 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by T M L View Post
I can agree with some of your points.

That being said the real blame for this mess is yours truly Brian Burke. He made a disaster out of this club trying to do his "accelerated" rebuild. I recall him saying "I'm not interested in a 5 year rebuild", and then went on to missing the playoffs 5 years in a row.

The best thing the new owners did was step in a relieve him from his duties, as he would have set the franchise back even more with his pig headed ways.

That was then, and this is now. Its time to take the trash out and move forward here. Is Carlyle the entire reason for the Leafs failure? No, he is not... BUT he is a major factor in it.

So Burke is to blame bur Carlyle should be fired?

Also, you might want to check what 'yours truly' means because unless you are Brian Burke posting here, you used that term entirely incorrectly.

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Old
12-18-2013, 11:12 AM
  #91
colchar
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
What is Nonis going to realistically do>?

Fire the coach? This is the same crew that for the most part under performed under Wilson. Eventually you have to start holding players accountable.

Trades? The team is in a deadfall - therefore negotiating from a position of weakness. Teams will be if not already circling waiting for Nonis to do something drastic. So a big trade will more than likely result in us getting fleeced out of desperation. he's smart enough to avoid this scenario.

Anything else will be sideways at best. He's going to wait until the deadline - dump some losers that nobody will ever miss for picks/prospects. Then make some big decisions this offseason as to the fate of some bigger names on roster.


Stop being so rational and making so much sense...you should know that isn't the way things are done here.

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Old
12-18-2013, 11:12 AM
  #92
blue82
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Originally Posted by chilfactor View Post
It was just an example.
What's your suggestion Mr Smug?
my suggestion is to wait until all the dust settles, this is a good team, i dont want to see anything forced because we are in a slump, we can not afford to make any trades right now in a position of weakness

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Old
12-18-2013, 11:15 AM
  #93
colchar
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Originally Posted by jamesdolla View Post
Hell, Seguin has already surpassed Kessel this year from the looks of it.

Seguin has one point more than Kessel this year and in previous years hasn't produced at anywhere near Kessel's level.


Quote:
Why didn't we try to put a package together for this guy(Seguin)?

Because if his attitude sucked in Boston can you just imagine what it would have been like in Toronto?

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Old
12-18-2013, 11:18 AM
  #94
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Fire the coach? This is the same crew that for the most part under performed under Wilson. Eventually you have to start holding players accountable.

Same crew under Wilson?

You mean the team that had Armstrong, Beuchemin, Crabb, Hanson, Kaberle, Aulie, Boyce, Dupuis, Lombardi, Grabovski, Macurthur, Brown, Connolly, Schenn, Komisarek.......

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Old
12-18-2013, 11:29 AM
  #95
thewave
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Originally Posted by chilfactor View Post
So then it's up to the coach to adapt to his team, and play to their strengths. Not to force his system down their throats when it clearly isn't working, and hasn't been for months.
Coaches also have input into the way a team is constructed
Stupid nobody fans like us have been saying that for years but MLSE has different things in mind.

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Old
12-18-2013, 11:30 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by chilfactor View Post
Same crew under Wilson?

You mean the team that had Armstrong, Beuchemin, Crabb, Hanson, Kaberle, Aulie, Boyce, Dupuis, Lombardi, Grabovski, Macurthur, Brown, Connolly, Schenn, Komisarek.......
Hey those guys don't play here

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Old
12-18-2013, 11:40 AM
  #97
Stephen
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
This team really reminds me of this team

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...000381990.html

All show and no go.

Sexy names, ugly games.
Haha, actually that reminds me of the 2011-12 and 2012-13 Leafs. Seems like we might be treading towards the 1991 Leafs again where they fell back to earth in a hard way.

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Old
12-18-2013, 11:44 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by chilfactor View Post
Same crew under Wilson?

You mean the team that had Armstrong, Beuchemin, Crabb, Hanson, Kaberle, Aulie, Boyce, Dupuis, Lombardi, Grabovski, Macurthur, Brown, Connolly, Schenn, Komisarek.......
I think the real culprits are starting to look like Phaneuf, Reimer, Gunnarsson, Kessel, Lupul, Bozak.

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Old
12-18-2013, 11:45 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I think the real culprits are starting to look like Phaneuf, Reimer, Gunnarsson, Kessel, Lupul, Bozak.
It's sad but I'm starting to agree.

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Old
12-18-2013, 11:47 AM
  #100
Glenn Healy
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Originally Posted by chilfactor View Post
Same crew under Wilson?

You mean the team that had Armstrong, Beuchemin, Crabb, Hanson, Kaberle, Aulie, Boyce, Dupuis, Lombardi, Grabovski, Macurthur, Brown, Connolly, Schenn, Komisarek.......
The talent now and in 11-12 isn't off much. More talented now but not as significant

We had Kessel, Bozak, Grabovski (good version), MacArthur (good version), Liles (good version), Phaneuf, Gardiner, Kulemin, Gunnarsson, Schenn, Franson, Reimer

btw Our overall success has actually gone up compared to in 11-12

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