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Old
12-17-2013, 11:38 PM
  #1
JetsTrueNorth
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Byfuglien

I'll start off by saying that maybe I'm a little bias because I've never been super impressed by his effort or his game as a whole (offensive ability, defensive ability, hockey intelligence). Even when he was with Chicago, I thought his success was a result of two things #1) Great coaching (moving him to forward and parking his big frame in front of the net) and #2) Being surrounded by 3+ lines of talent.

I'll admit that once in awhile he'll pinch and look really good as a forward, but his effort and flashes just aren't consistent enough to warrant the ice time he gets in my opinion. Aside from his occasional flashes of speed and the odd dangle down the ice, no one can deny that he's a defensive liability almost every shift he takes.

Tonight he was on the ice for all 4 of Buffalo's goals.

His poor play behind the net and Setoguchi's giveaway resulted in the Sabres the 1st goal. Buff's poor sense of his defensive responsibilities attributed to the 2nd Sabres goal, and ditto for goal #4.

Some have argued that Buff's brutal plus/minus is probably a result of being matched again the oppositions tops lines. There is very little truth to this as of late, and coach Noel isn't a big matchup type of coach. Buffalo is the worst offensive team in the league and their goals tonight came from 3 different lines.

His missed shots are getting more and more atrocious, and his lazy penalties are getting to be more frequent. His giveaways haven't gotten any worse, but not really better either.

My question is this.......Is Byfuglien injured? Is he sulking because he's already been notified that he isn't going to the Olympics? Is there trouble in the locker room? Does he want out of Winnipeg?

The reason I ask......I've found his efforts of late to be a lot more lazy and disinterested than the player I already think is quite over rated. I'm honestly not trying to be a smart a** here.

If anyone has some insight into what's going with his play of late I'd be interested to know.

Hopefully we can get back on track against the Panthers.

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Old
12-17-2013, 11:46 PM
  #2
tntkid
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On the Chicago HFboards a fan wanted to propose trading him for Bickell & most of the fans wanted no part of him.

If we could move Buff & pick up a good centreman in return & draft pick I would go for it.

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Old
12-17-2013, 11:49 PM
  #3
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I have felt like starting a thread on him all night...just like you.

After two and a half years in Winnipeg...I think it is safe to say "he is who he is" defensively speaking. We will continue to get exactly what we have got regardless of coaches, systems, support players, etc.

When the players and coaches keep speaking about being "UN-FOCUSED" and "lacking attention to details"...and people wonder just who they are talking about...

This is THE PLAYER who can make or break this team...and unfortunately he is breaking us.

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12-17-2013, 11:54 PM
  #4
Hank Chinaski
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I'm pretty well on the fence with him right now.

There's no question he's a special talent in so many ways. However, I believe the only chance for the Jets success in the short term is to establish a system that stresses responsible defensive play to mask the overall lack of firepower. Is Byfuglien capable of playing effectively in that system? My feeling is no.

You want to get fair value for him, but you don't want to risk waiting so long that you're selling him for pennies on the dollar. I doubt his trade value will be much higher than it is now.

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12-17-2013, 11:54 PM
  #5
peter sullivan
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horrible night for buff.....still our only real impact player IMHO.

i dont get why they put him with a sandbag like clitsome.....the two of them are sometimes like two grown men eating mashed potatoes with their bare hands on defence.....he worked well with enstrom......typical Noel.

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12-17-2013, 11:58 PM
  #6
Hank Chinaski
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Just to add, I've always thought his defensive shortcomings get overblown a bit.

He has some awful games defensively, but on average he's not that bad. Very similar to guys like Green, Letang (this season) and Karlsson.

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12-18-2013, 12:01 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter sullivan View Post
horrible night for buff.....still our only real impact player IMHO.

i dont get why they put him with a sandbag like clitsome.....the two of them are sometimes like two grown men eating mashed potatoes with their bare hands on defence.....he worked well with enstrom......typical Noel.
Best I can think of is they didn't want to stick a 19 year old rookie with a sandbag like Clitsome and the move has backfired in the short term. I think they may need to just roll Buff and Toby and toss Trouba to the Wolves (Stu Clitty other) until Bogosian gets back.

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12-18-2013, 12:22 AM
  #8
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Easy to blame. When he does screw up, it's glaring. Our best D, Trouba not far behind.

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Old
12-18-2013, 12:46 AM
  #9
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It's funny how these player "discussion" threads happen right after the player had a bad game, so everyone can crawl out of the woodwork and rake him over the coals unopposed. Byfuglien is the single best RHD the jets have, and is one of, if not the most potent offensive weapon we have. That has value, even if nobody wants to admit it.

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12-18-2013, 01:00 AM
  #10
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You can't really fault Buff too much for all the goals tonight, besides the second one. Not sure why he never takes his man in front of the net.

In my opinion, it comes down to depth. When we don't have enough guys pulling their own weight, the guy playing the most minutes usually looks terrible. Clitsome and Stu are AHL dmen.

The term "puck moving dman" should reefer to all NHL dmen, and on good teams all of their dmen move the puck. Sure, Clitsome and Stu might be good at stopping the puck, but what's the point if they can't move it right afterwards? Well, that's why buff looks terrible, if they have any sort of pressure they simply A) hug the boards, B) chip it out, or what they usually do, C) force the puck the buff and have him make a play.

Depth. We have good dmen on the right side, the left side is weak beside Toby. Teams know this.

I'm not a fan of Buff, I honestly hated him from the Chicago cup run, after scoring on Luongo he skated past him and was trash talking after he had pretty much put the game away, no class. So, even though he's not THAT bad, I say we trade him. He's a jerk.

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Old
12-18-2013, 08:36 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theamazingchris View Post
It's funny how these player "discussion" threads happen right after the player had a bad game, so everyone can crawl out of the woodwork and rake him over the coals unopposed. Byfuglien is the single best RHD the jets have, and is one of, if not the most potent offensive weapon we have. That has value, even if nobody wants to admit it.
Agreed, like clockwork.

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Old
12-18-2013, 08:59 AM
  #12
Jimby
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We are not just talking about Buff because of last night's game. I believe he is probably the biggest impediment to the success of the Jets because he IS the culture of the team. This team will not improve with him on the team. I would trade him for a bag of pucks and a few rolls of hockey tape if we had to. The sooner he is gone the better.

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Old
12-18-2013, 09:03 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
I'm pretty well on the fence with him right now.

There's no question he's a special talent in so many ways. However, I believe the only chance for the Jets success in the short term is to establish a system that stresses responsible defensive play to mask the overall lack of firepower. Is Byfuglien capable of playing effectively in that system? My feeling is no.

You want to get fair value for him, but you don't want to risk waiting so long that you're selling him for pennies on the dollar. I doubt his trade value will be much higher than it is now.
Pretty well my thoughts. Someone last night mentioned he's like Alexei Kovalev with the 'on, off', perhaps true. I ****ing hated Alexei 'i'll play when I want to' Kovalev. I don't care how much talent you have, I hate, hate, hate players like that.

Not sure that's Byfuglien, I more so think he just doesn't have it between the ears. He's talented, no doubt, but I just don't see him as a fit here. Then again, maybe he wouldn't agitate me so much if we had a better surrounding cast and his mistakes weren't as costly or noticeable? that's certainly possible.

With that being said, I agree with you, we want fair value, but waiting too long may diminish that. If we trade him this this season/ this offseason a team will have him for a guaranteed 2 years. This is likely the best time to trade him at this point. His trade value may begin diminishing as the years on his contract here are getting smaller and smaller. I hope to see Byfuglien dealt no later than this offseason. If we are going to do it, I think it's the time to do it.

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Old
12-18-2013, 09:05 AM
  #14
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Byfuglien has GOT to go!!! The guy plays like a demon in the offensive zone and a bystander in the defensive zone. That's because playing defense is hard work with no glory.

Hey, I'm not a fan of the guy and he has been pretty good for the past few weeks but that kind of effort from a "core" guy tells you exactly why this team blows a 2 goal lead to the worst team in the league. I'm still stunned that some people think this guy is worth something.

P.S. Anyone else notice PJ Stock on HNIC LOVES to call out Byfuglien and his play? Everything he says is bang on with regards to Buff and the Jets. Maybe he'll be the next Donald S. Cherry as he has strong opinions and isn't afraid to verbalize them.

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Old
12-18-2013, 09:19 AM
  #15
scelaton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BZed View Post
We are not just talking about Buff because of last night's game. I believe he is probably the biggest impediment to the success of the Jets because he IS the culture of the team. This team will not improve with him on the team. I would trade him for a bag of pucks and a few rolls of hockey tape if we had to. The sooner he is gone the better.
This is why:
a)it's dangerous to create dedicated Buff threads immediately after one of his sh**** games
b)it helps to look at advanced stats over a season(s) just to temper the emotional overreaction at times like this
c)you should not be GM of the Jets

What do you think Erik Karlsson is worth in trade? How many bags of pucks? Because, aside from being younger than Buff, he is no better defensively and not a lot better offensively. Who would you rather have in the playoffs?

My first ever post on HF boards, 18 months ago, was a 'trade Buff' proposal, but it was for a big, big return. So I am not a blind defender or averse to a trade under the right circumstances.
He is flawed, for sure, but he is also a star O defenseman and if Chevy is going to trade him it's going to be for a commensurate return, or not at all.

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Old
12-18-2013, 09:30 AM
  #16
Jimby
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Buff makes all the players around him worse by virtue of his leadership position and his attitude. He sets a horrible example. That is why I say the sooner he is gone the better. Karlsson would be far better for us simply because he would not be in that leadership position.

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Old
12-18-2013, 09:42 AM
  #17
wpgsilver
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I've been saying ad nauseum that Buff is a diminishing asset and should be moved.
Perhaps he's declining faster than I anticipated or perhaps he's on a cold streak in terms of his play.
Who knows.

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Old
12-18-2013, 09:56 AM
  #18
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I used to be a Buff fan but by the end of last season I was hoping he would be traded. Over the summer when the picture appeared of a trim Buff and with the added incentive of the Olympics I figured Buff may become the player we all hoped he would become. I was back on the Buff bandwagon!

Wrongo! If it hasn't happened by now it never will.

He is like a virus and infects the team with the Bufflu. We need him gone.

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Old
12-18-2013, 10:00 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
This is why:
a)it's dangerous to create dedicated Buff threads immediately after one of his sh**** games
b)it helps to look at advanced stats over a season(s) just to temper the emotional overreaction at times like this
c)you should not be GM of the Jets

What do you think Erik Karlsson is worth in trade? How many bags of pucks? Because, aside from being younger than Buff, he is no better defensively and not a lot better offensively. Who would you rather have in the playoffs?

My first ever post on HF boards, 18 months ago, was a 'trade Buff' proposal, but it was for a big, big return. So I am not a blind defender or averse to a trade under the right circumstances.
He is flawed, for sure, but he is also a star O defenseman and if Chevy is going to trade him it's going to be for a commensurate return, or not at all.
This, completely.^^^


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Old
12-18-2013, 05:30 PM
  #20
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I think the trade deadline price for a Buff type to a contender has been pretty much set the last few years..I would make it this:

1st round draft pick
prospect (a good one)
A roster player...above average..

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Old
12-18-2013, 05:45 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by VictoriaJetsFan View Post
I think the trade deadline price for a Buff type to a contender has been pretty much set the last few years..I would make it this:

1st round draft pick
prospect (a good one)
A roster player...above average..
I think Buff's here for the rest of the season. TNSE has 15004 (bobblehead) reasons to keep him past the deadline. He's not a good fit for us to trade at the deadline. No contender is gonna want to give up roster players before the playoffs and the Jets won't trade him for just futures. He's more likely traded at the draft or free agent frenzy day like Bobby Ryan was. Same with Kane. Has to be a hockey deal that makes sense. Tough to do those at the deadline.

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12-18-2013, 05:50 PM
  #22
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Your probably right, but I would not dismiss entirely the chance of a deadlne deal, there is a helluva lot of pressure on those teams looking for the final piece that puts a contender over the top....panicky decisions have been made before...maybe the jets can take advantage...there' s not much else left for us to hope fore either....sorry for being overly negative...last night's loss really bummed me out...

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Old
12-18-2013, 10:55 PM
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Maybe he'll be the next Donald S. Cherry as he...
... Is also an idiot.

Guy has no clue whats going on.

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Old
12-19-2013, 02:10 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theamazingchris View Post
It's funny how these player "discussion" threads happen right after the player had a bad game, so everyone can crawl out of the woodwork and rake him over the coals unopposed. Byfuglien is the single best RHD the jets have, and is one of, if not the most potent offensive weapon we have. That has value, even if nobody wants to admit it.
That was one of the worst games I've seen Byfuglien play as a Jet and that is saying A LOT.

It just accentuates his shortcomings. Of course people are going to talk about it, it's a discussion board.

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12-19-2013, 02:13 PM
  #25
Jet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
This is why:
a)it's dangerous to create dedicated Buff threads immediately after one of his sh**** games
b)it helps to look at advanced stats over a season(s) just to temper the emotional overreaction at times like this
c)you should not be GM of the Jets

What do you think Erik Karlsson is worth in trade? How many bags of pucks? Because, aside from being younger than Buff, he is no better defensively and not a lot better offensively. Who would you rather have in the playoffs?

My first ever post on HF boards, 18 months ago, was a 'trade Buff' proposal, but it was for a big, big return. So I am not a blind defender or averse to a trade under the right circumstances.
He is flawed, for sure, but he is also a star O defenseman and if Chevy is going to trade him it's going to be for a commensurate return, or not at all.
I take Karlsson every day. Why?

He is younger
He still has upside
He has lots of time to learn and get better defensively (something that Byfuglien can't or won't do)
Karlsson is property of his team for the long run.

It's really a no brainer when you are looking at where the Jets are.

IF the Jets were a perennial playoff team and in the conversation for the cup? I might take Buff. As it stands now, Byfuglien does not fit where this team is in it's development cycle. Karlsson is a MUCH better fit.

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