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Old
12-23-2013, 11:43 PM
  #51
theamazingchris
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Yeah, this is totally indicative of his overall play, good job. There is not a single ****ing player on this team that played well tonight, so why single him out? Call him lazy, sloppy, disinterested, fine. Prove it. Convince me. Try and use an actual argument this time.

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12-23-2013, 11:52 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by theamazingchris View Post
Yeah, this is totally indicative of his overall play, good job. There is not a single ****ing player on this team that played well tonight, so why single him out? Call him lazy, sloppy, disinterested, fine. Prove it. Convince me. Try and use an actual argument this time.
Tonight Buf was responsible for quite a few of the goals against. At least 3.
Coughing up the puck, slow to pick up a man.

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Old
12-24-2013, 12:52 AM
  #53
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high risk/high reward players like Byfuglien tend to make bad teams worse, however they also tend to be the guys who put a good team over the top. Good teams have the talent and the systems in place to cover any weak spots that may open up when a Buff type starts freewheeling. Our guys are terrible at that.

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12-24-2013, 12:54 AM
  #54
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I like Buff but this is one of the worst games I've ever seen him play.

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Old
12-24-2013, 01:11 AM
  #55
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I'm not going to hang the loss around Buff

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Old
12-24-2013, 01:59 AM
  #56
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Buff is a high event guy. It's either good for us or bad for us. Not often is he not noticeable.

I still think the return we could get for him now or in the off season would make us a better team immediately and into the future.

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12-24-2013, 02:18 AM
  #57
sting13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ediger View Post
high risk/high reward players like Byfuglien tend to make bad teams worse, however they also tend to be the guys who put a good team over the top. Good teams have the talent and the systems in place to cover any weak spots that may open up when a Buff type starts freewheeling. Our guys are terrible at that.
That maybe true if a player is a forward but when you are on defence, if you get
caught frequently out of position or simply letting a man go free it doesn't matter
if you play on a good or bad team, it will cost the team.

You can't have someone always covering for you.

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Old
12-24-2013, 03:21 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Turbofan View Post
I like Buff but this is one of the worst games I've ever seen him play.
Agreed. Still think his dynamicness (is that a word?) will be missed if we trade him. Think we could get more and be better off if we flip Bogosian, who I think at this point is just simply not going to get to the level we all once hoped. Over paid for what he brings right now, don't know if the development will come. If we could get a Coburn (basically a more consistant Bogosian right now) + B. Schenn for Bogo, I don't know how you don't pull that trigger, IMO.

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Old
12-24-2013, 06:33 AM
  #59
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IMO the Jets need to if possible trade Buff at the trade deadline or at the very least before next season. I just don't think this team will ever contend with him as their top defenseman and marquee player. He has a ton of talent, but he plays like the NHL is a rec league and he is the top player. Reckless chances, selfish play, indifference to defense and a huge shadow that influences everything the team tries to do.

If his talent could be reigned in he could be a true #1 defenseman, but how he currently plays IMO will rot a team from the inside out. And at age 28 and after watching it for 2 1/2 seasons I can't see this changing.

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12-24-2013, 07:29 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
IMO the Jets need to if possible trade Buff at the trade deadline or at the very least before next season. I just don't think this team will ever contend with him as their top defenseman and marquee player. He has a ton of talent, but he plays like the NHL is a rec league and he is the top player. Reckless chances, selfish play, indifference to defense and a huge shadow that influences everything the team tries to do.

If his talent could be reigned in he could be a true #1 defenseman, but how he currently plays IMO will rot a team from the inside out. And at age 28 and after watching it for 2 1/2 seasons I can't see this changing.
There is no accountability on this team or on buff. Maybe a new coach can reign him in, maybe not. He is what he is. People like his break outs and offense but when he just ignores ppl beside him that leads directly to goals, I don't see how people can defend him. Really need to trade him. I really believe its addition by subtraction.

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12-24-2013, 07:47 AM
  #61
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Agreed he is worth much more as a trade asset that our "top" D-man.

A number of teams would be interested at the trade deadline and overpay in prospects and picks. Do it, Chevy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
IMO the Jets need to if possible trade Buff at the trade deadline or at the very least before next season. I just don't think this team will ever contend with him as their top defenseman and marquee player. He has a ton of talent, but he plays like the NHL is a rec league and he is the top player. Reckless chances, selfish play, indifference to defense and a huge shadow that influences everything the team tries to do.

If his talent could be reigned in he could be a true #1 defenseman, but how he currently plays IMO will rot a team from the inside out. And at age 28 and after watching it for 2 1/2 seasons I can't see this changing.

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12-24-2013, 08:23 AM
  #62
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People talk about the how you can't trade the team so it is easier to fire one guy - the coach. The same could be said about Buff in my opinion.

Have the Jets ever won a game when the bad Buff was the one who showed up? Not that I can recall. This year the bad Buff seems to be playing more games than the good Buff. The bad Buff gets just as much ice time as the good Buff. As goes Buff so go the Jets.

TV pundits talk about how Buff can single-handedly change the course of a game and they are correct.

Jets are going nowhere as long as Buff is on the team.

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Old
12-24-2013, 08:32 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by BZed View Post
People talk about the how you can't trade the team so it is easier to fire one guy - the coach. The same could be said about Buff in my opinion.

Have the Jets ever won a game when the bad Buff was the one who showed up? Not that I can recall. This year the bad Buff seems to be playing more games than the good Buff. The bad Buff gets just as much ice time as the good Buff. As goes Buff so go the Jets.

TV pundits talk about how Buff can single-handedly change the course of a game and they are correct.

Jets are going nowhere as long as Buff is on the team.
And there in lies the problem with trying to trade Buff. If some TV pundits can figure out what you get with Buff, then obviously there are 29 other teams that have also figured it out. I want Buff gone as well because I don't ever believe he will become the player we all want him to become and he can single-handedly cost us games, but I don't want him gone if we get nothing for him. Even if we only get the good Buff 50% of the time, he is still better than what we could be getting as offers for him.

For all we know Chevy has been trying to trade Buff, but we are getting nothing offered in return. The only way you are going to trade Buff and get value in return is to trade him to a team that is convinced that they can do what the Jets can't... make him into an elite player.

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12-24-2013, 08:32 AM
  #64
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Is it just me or does it seem Buff's shooting accuracy has gotten worse ever year he's been here. He shoots high or wide a lot more than I remember.

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Old
12-24-2013, 08:38 AM
  #65
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I think Buff could really help a team in the playoffs when he would be engaged every game. Hopefully some team will want him for their cup run.

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12-24-2013, 08:39 AM
  #66
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Is it just me or does it seem Buff's shooting accuracy has gotten worse ever year he's been here. He shoots high or wide a lot more than I remember.
Shooting % as a Jet

2011 - 5.4
2012 - 5.6
2013 - 4.5

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12-24-2013, 08:48 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Agreed. Still think his dynamicness (is that a word?) will be missed if we trade him. Think we could get more and be better off if we flip Bogosian, who I think at this point is just simply not going to get to the level we all once hoped. Over paid for what he brings right now, don't know if the development will come. If we could get a Coburn (basically a more consistant Bogosian right now) + B. Schenn for Bogo, I don't know how you don't pull that trigger, IMO.
I just don't get trading Bogosian right now. You of all people should be aware that it takes time to develop a defenseman properly. Giving up on Bogo because he has struggled somewhat this season is ludicrous. We have a long term asset that wants to be here. We also have a very valuable asset in Byfuglien that A> will probably fetch more on the market right now (especially for a team looking to load up for a couple of playoff runs, they will be more likely to trade young players) B> is aging C> who is a UFA in 2 years and we most likely will not resign D> if we don't trade now/ this offseason will end up fetching us FAR less E> has had plenty of time to show us exactly what he is, which is a dynamic, high end defenseman who is either putting the puck in the oppositions net or fishing it out of ours.

I, like you, are less convinced of what Bogosian will be after this year. I did expect more out of him. However, at the end of the day he still is young for a defenseman, and has time to figure it out. I fear if we traded him now we would regret it.

Byfuglien is the sensible player to trade.

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12-24-2013, 08:51 AM
  #68
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The guy is a loser, plain and simple. Notice he only goes after guys 1/4 of his weight, and does so with his stick. SOFT AS BUTTER, don't want him on my team

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12-24-2013, 08:57 AM
  #69
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There is no accountability on this team or on buff. Maybe a new coach can reign him in, maybe not. He is what he is. People like his break outs and offense but when he just ignores ppl beside him that leads directly to goals, I don't see how people can defend him. Really need to trade him. I really believe its addition by subtraction.
Totally agree, Buff is flat out lazy, throwing a water bottle from the penalty box at the opposition shows he's pretty dumb as well.

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12-24-2013, 09:04 AM
  #70
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Well said.

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Originally Posted by Jet View Post
I just don't get trading Bogosian right now. You of all people should be aware that it takes time to develop a defenseman properly. Giving up on Bogo because he has struggled somewhat this season is ludicrous. We have a long term asset that wants to be here. We also have a very valuable asset in Byfuglien that A> will probably fetch more on the market right now (especially for a team looking to load up for a couple of playoff runs, they will be more likely to trade young players) B> is aging C> who is a UFA in 2 years and we most likely will not resign D> if we don't trade now/ this offseason will end up fetching us FAR less E> has had plenty of time to show us exactly what he is, which is a dynamic, high end defenseman who is either putting the puck in the oppositions net or fishing it out of ours.

I, like you, are less convinced of what Bogosian will be after this year. I did expect more out of him. However, at the end of the day he still is young for a defenseman, and has time to figure it out. I fear if we traded him now we would regret it.

Byfuglien is the sensible player to trade.

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Old
12-24-2013, 09:12 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Agreed. Still think his dynamicness (is that a word?) will be missed if we trade him. Think we could get more and be better off if we flip Bogosian, who I think at this point is just simply not going to get to the level we all once hoped. Over paid for what he brings right now, don't know if the development will come. If we could get a Coburn (basically a more consistant Bogosian right now) + B. Schenn for Bogo, I don't know how you don't pull that trigger, IMO.
It's pretty easy not to pull that trigger. Coburn is no where near a more consistant Bogosian.

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12-24-2013, 09:13 AM
  #72
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Hilarious, and 100% predictable that some posters here would flock to dump on Buff after last nights game.

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Old
12-24-2013, 09:15 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Shooting % as a Jet

2011 - 5.4
2012 - 5.6
2013 - 4.5
Shots that are high or wide aren't included in this stat though so not reaaly measured by this.

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Old
12-24-2013, 09:18 AM
  #74
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Hilarious, and 100% predictable that some posters here would flock to dump on Buff after last nights game.
Its always been on my radar. I have always said he is a liablility. I said the 3 changes that need to happen are

1) new coach
2) new goalie
3) trade buff

Hasn't changed since mid last season. I am glad more ppl are on the get rid of buff train tho. And more people are on the other 2 trains as well.

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Old
12-24-2013, 09:34 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Agreed. Still think his dynamicness (is that a word?) will be missed if we trade him. Think we could get more and be better off if we flip Bogosian, who I think at this point is just simply not going to get to the level we all once hoped. Over paid for what he brings right now, don't know if the development will come. If we could get a Coburn (basically a more consistant Bogosian right now) + B. Schenn for Bogo, I don't know how you don't pull that trigger, IMO.
I am torn.

I am a Bogo fan and will admit he is off to a tough start this season and it feels like he has taken a step back at this point. I am not positive about his development either, when he is on he can play with and against anyone and he is a pleasure to watch but he needs to start putting it together at some point. I feel like the game isn't slowing down for him like I would have hoped by now. He has average Hockey IQ and that may hold him back. I want to wait until the end of the season but his chronic injury issues are a concern for me as well. I don't mind his contract at all and think he will earn it especially as inflation kicks in. I think he is missing Hainsey and still needs a steady talented LHD partner. Right now they are trying Enstrom with him and it is probably too early to comment on whether it will work or not but it’s getting in the way of Toby and Buff being paired and that doesn't help.

Buff is interesting, he is a really dynamic guy and I have seen the advanced stats and we would really miss the points he brings to the table but given his age and contract status he might be the guy I move. I think his next deal is going to be a whopper and I am not sure I want to make that commitment to Buff. Buff is larger than life and when he plays well he can carry our team but when he gets in a funk and starts trying to do too much he can sink us as well. If he gets traded our team transforms instantly by his absence….now that may be a good thing or a bad thing depending on who we get back in the deal but make no mistake there is no player who more clearly drives who the Jets are style wise. That may be the bold kind of step we need to take if transformation is seen as something desirable with TNSE?

allot of this depends on the deal flow and what each of these two guys could yield. For me its business and if it makes our team better then I am fine with making moves and that is not just in the wake of a tough game last night.


I doubt anything happens until teams are allowed to work under the new salary cap but once they can then I would be surprised if Chevy doesn't begin to "tinker" with the core while remaining patient on the draft and develop side.


Last edited by ps241: 12-24-2013 at 09:42 AM.
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