HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Best Hockey Players of All Time

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-18-2013, 01:07 PM
  #26
MarkGio
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,878
vCash: 500
I think this can be quantified, but not scientifically of course. A point system for each category.

An example would be if notoriety was a category.
Sean Avery as the "greatest" pest would receive a 10, Martin St. Louis would be a zero.

Apply a weight system to each category. Break-aways make up 1%, goals make up 10%. Whoever has the most points is the greatest player.

MarkGio is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2013, 01:10 PM
  #27
begbeee
Registered User
 
begbeee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 4,123
vCash: 500
Choices which are not included in more traditional lists:
Hasek, Ovechkin, Bure and Lindros - they must be there
Forsberg - was he really such unique or he just lack the longevity?

Neely? Wendel Clark? Chara? Oates? Probert? Gilmour? Gainey? Tim Thomas? Brett Hull?

begbeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2013, 01:18 PM
  #28
jcbio11
Registered User
 
jcbio11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bratislava
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 2,135
vCash: 50
I like this thread.

My number one is Mario Lemieux.

jcbio11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2013, 01:26 PM
  #29
Darth Yoda
Registered User
 
Darth Yoda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Grovebranch's Crease
Country: Sweden
Posts: 3,152
vCash: 931
I think some russians just got so used to winning everything so they turned to who had the greatest style when determining who was the best.

Darth Yoda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2013, 01:28 PM
  #30
TAnnala
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Oulu
Country: Finland
Posts: 16,587
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by begbeee View Post
Choices which are not included in more traditional lists:
Hasek, Ovechkin, Bure and Lindros - they must be there
Forsberg - was he really such unique or he just lack the longevity?

Neely? Wendel Clark? Chara? Oates? Probert? Gilmour? Gainey? Tim Thomas? Brett Hull?
I think he was. This is coming from a very jealous and bitter Finnish fan. Forsberg was really something else. He was so strong and talented. But he never would have been what he was without the heart. Forsberg really was the guy who walked the extra mile. His attitude made him bigger than he really was.

I remember thinking as a young boy, that Forsberg was the only guy in the Three Crowns team that I didn't want my guys to take check. Cause when you hit Forsberg hard, make him angry, he was the guy who would burn you.

TAnnala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2013, 02:25 PM
  #31
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Casablanca
Country: Morocco
Posts: 26,174
vCash: 500
Favorite Player All Time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
I don't know if Gretzky going to be my #1. He was unique alright, but too subtle, ya know? And I am a huge Gretzky fan.
Fun thread Sentinel, but I think maybe we should re-title it "Favorite Hockey Player All Time" and use the criteria youve established as opposed to calling it "Best Hockey Players All Time". For that we have ATD's etc. Here your looking for the emotional quotient. Skill, artistry & success, longevity perhaps & stats included if one wishes, used more subjectively & personally by any given Poster.... For example, Borje' Salming is one of my favorites of all time, and a player (and person) who I hold in very high regard, and who I consider one of the greatest defenceman to have ever played the game. Dzurilla & Tretiak, Bobrov, Kharlamov, Petrov & others same thing. At the NHL level, Horton, Roger Crozier, Bruce Gamble, Jim Pappin, Pat Stapleton, Keith Magnusson and so on, many completely unheralded and off anyones grid of Top 300 let alone 100 or God forbid 60. Just guys who's games I really admired at various times in their careers & or were absolutely Superstars throughout their careers be it in North America or Internationally. So maybe a Top 10, 25 or even 50 "All Time Favorite Players" list as opposed to "Best Players All Time"?.... just my 2 cents.

Killion is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2013, 03:18 PM
  #32
King Forsberg
16 21 28 44 68 88 93
 
King Forsberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 5,833
vCash: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
Was Lindros all that unique? I thought he was more of a bull, charging forward. Good hands, good shot, but not much of an artist.
I'd say he was maybe the most unique player there was. Despite his health issues he was at times the best player on the planet and the toughest player at the same time. I don't think there was a player that had Lindros' strength and skill. He was a fourth enforcer who was one of the most skilled players in the league. Lindros gets overrated on here a lot of the time but he was a special hockey player.

King Forsberg is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2013, 06:58 PM
  #33
Sentinel
Registered User
 
Sentinel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 3,930
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Fun thread Sentinel, but I think maybe we should re-title it "Favorite Hockey Player All Time" and use the criteria youve established as opposed to calling it "Best Hockey Players All Time". For that we have ATD's etc. Here your looking for the emotional quotient. Skill, artistry & success, longevity perhaps & stats included if one wishes, used more subjectively & personally by any given Poster.... For example, Borje' Salming is one of my favorites of all time, and a player (and person) who I hold in very high regard, and who I consider one of the greatest defenceman to have ever played the game. Dzurilla & Tretiak, Bobrov, Kharlamov, Petrov & others same thing. At the NHL level, Horton, Roger Crozier, Bruce Gamble, Jim Pappin, Pat Stapleton, Keith Magnusson and so on, many completely unheralded and off anyones grid of Top 300 let alone 100 or God forbid 60. Just guys who's games I really admired at various times in their careers & or were absolutely Superstars throughout their careers be it in North America or Internationally. So maybe a Top 10, 25 or even 50 "All Time Favorite Players" list as opposed to "Best Players All Time"?.... just my 2 cents.
I certainly did not intend it to be as such. Sure some of this stuff is subjective, but "uniqueness and artistry" have a large degree of objectivity, do they not? In fact many of these unheralded heroes are unheralded for a reason. I certainly would not call Tretiak and Kharlamov "unheralded." Kharlamov was a far more unique player than Petrov, in spite of better statistical results by the latter.

Sentinel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2013, 07:28 PM
  #34
Sentinel
Registered User
 
Sentinel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 3,930
vCash: 500
So let me set up an example. I admit that I have not seen many players play. Maurice Richard, for example, to me is just a name with a set of sexy numbers and awards. But feel free to contribute and dispute.

1. Hasek. I will never forget a comment awarded by one of the TV commentators after yet another spectacular save: "And the question everybody is asking right now is: 'Is this guy human?'" A definition of uniqueness. There's never going to be another one like him.

2. Lemieux. Pretty much a given. Looked like a star and played like a star. Incredible creativity.

3. Gretzky. Another case of "there's never going to be another one like him." Stats through the roof, but not exactly a highlight reel. You have to REALLY know hockey to appreciate what he did.

4. Valery Kharlamov. I believe that between 72 and 76 he was the best forward in the world. A real artist on ice.

5. Bobby Orr. I'm sure other people will have him higher.

6. Pavel Bure. I think they invented YouTube just for this guy. Not much in the way of winning, but the 94 playoffs and 98 Olympics were runs for the ages.

7. Eric Lindros. Bull on skates with soft hands.

8. Mike Bossy. The Shot.

9. Sergei Fedorov. The most perfect set of skills applied over the entire ice surface.

10. Nick Lidstrom. I was thinking about Potvin, but at the end of the day Nick was just so damn smooth.

Honorable mentions: Jaromir Jagr, Denis Potvin, Joe Sakic, Phil Esposito.

Sentinel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2013, 08:17 PM
  #35
LeBlondeDemon10
BlindLemon Haystacks
 
LeBlondeDemon10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,175
vCash: 500
My biased list. There really is no set in stone order for this list except that The Flower will always be number 1 for me:

1. The Flower - He had such an aura about him and was just a joy to watch. Even if he didn't score, his skating and creating chances for teammates was exciting. His first game back at the Forum as a Ranger is just so indicative of his ability to rise to the occasion, even past his prime.
2. Gretzky - I disagree a little with Sentinel's statement of Gretzky. For example, in his 212 pt season you didn't have to know hockey for about 180 of his points. The other 32 points was a magic act I will never fully understand.
3. Orr - I loved Bobby Hull's comment on Legend's of Hockey about Orr. After a period, Hull said to the ref that maybe they should throw another puck on the ice for the rest of us to play with.
4. Steve Shutt - Just loved how he got his stick on the puck and his great shot. Shook his hand one day at the old Hockey Hutch in Winnipeg when I was about 12.
5. Stephane Richer (as a Canadien) - At times, visions of the Flower came to my mind as he made his rink long rushes and let go his lethal shot. He was incredible in the 91 playoffs against Boston.
6. Larry Robinson - So much to say about him but I particularly remember him pointing at one of the Flyers after pounding Schultz and pointing at Messier from one penalty box to the other. He didn't fear anything.
7. Sergei Makarov (pre-NHL) - A beautiful talent.
8. Valerie Kharlamov - Aside from Lafleur maybe my choice for most exciting player ever.
9. Serge Savard/Mark Howe tie - If I ever coached, I'd want my defense men to play like them.
10. Tretiak - The only goalie on my list. Such fond memories of the two NYE games where he stood on his head.
11. Bob Gainey - Skating, tenacity and toughness without fighting. For all the hits and highsticks he took, I only saw him get really mad once, in a playoff game against the Nordiques. Who can blame him?
12. Wendel Clark - A shame he was injured so much. Toughest player I ever saw.
13. Doug Gilmour - Underrated and a superb playmaker. He resurrected the Leafs and made hockey in Toronto exciting again. Was he the closest thing to Teeder Kennedy the Leafs ever had?
14. Gilbert Perreault - So smooth, and such a great skater. Best player on the ice on most nights, even in the 79 CC and 81 CC.
15. Erik Karlsson - I just love watching this kid.

LeBlondeDemon10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2013, 08:28 PM
  #36
Sprague Cleghorn
User Registered
 
Sprague Cleghorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Edmonton, KY
Country: Ras al-Khaimah
Posts: 1,839
vCash: 214
I can see Pavel Datsyuk being Top-10 if we're going by that criteria.

Also would Linus Omark qualify?

Sprague Cleghorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2013, 08:46 PM
  #37
LeBlondeDemon10
BlindLemon Haystacks
 
LeBlondeDemon10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi Hendrix View Post
I can see Pavel Datsyuk being Top-10 if we're going by that criteria.

Also would Linus Omark qualify?
Oh man, forgot about Datsyuk. He's definitely in my top whatever.

LeBlondeDemon10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2013, 09:49 PM
  #38
kmad
Riot Survivor
 
kmad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 33,259
vCash: 500
We'd have to consider Charlie Gardiner and Tim Thomas for goalies.

One problem I think this list will have is in overvaluing players who had short careers simply because their careers were shortened. I mean, Bure was electrifying, but even if he had a 20 season career, I still think Doug Gilmour and Sergei Fedorov were better players and should be higher up the list in terms of peak.

kmad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 01:55 AM
  #39
alko
Registered User
 
alko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 2,207
vCash: 500
You will never see one truly winner here. Every fan has his ranking. If he is from Canada, most players will be from Canada. If he lives in Russia, most players will be from Russia. Another issue is, most of us wasnt alive in 70-s, 60-s. So, if they talk about Orr, Lafleur, Tretiak .. it is only from what they heard about this players....

alko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 10:15 AM
  #40
Sentinel
Registered User
 
Sentinel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 3,930
vCash: 500
Again, I certainly do not intend for this to be a popularity contest. I want to see which players had the highest peak. One of the criteria is one's uniqueness and artistry. Fans' popularity is very far down on the list.

Sentinel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 11:19 AM
  #41
hawkman
.
 
hawkman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,712
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
Not really. It's how high you flew during those years. I don't know if Gretzky going to be my #1. He was unique alright, but too subtle, ya know? And I am a huge Gretzky fan.
Yes, scoring more than 1,000 points in five seasons and more than 400 points more than the next guy is so subtle. He may have been a HoFer after the 85-6 season.

Quote:
Totals Per Game Totals
Rk Player From To Tm Lg Nat. Pos GP G A PTS GC +/- PIM EV PP SH S S% TOI G A PTS GC S OPS DPS PS
1 Wayne Gretzky* 1982 1986 EDM NHL CA C 394 375 661 1036 385 386 222 262 75 38 1749 21.4 0 0.95 1.68 2.63 0.98 4.44 82.2 11.7 93.9
2 Mike Bossy* 1982 1986 NYI NHL CA RW 382 294 329 623 250 229 102 212 77 5 1406 20.9 0 0.77 0.86 1.63 0.65 3.68 48.4 9.7 58.1
http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...rder_by=points

__________________
hawkman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 02:38 PM
  #42
ot92s
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 741
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
So let me set up an example. I admit that I have not seen many players play. Maurice Richard, for example, to me is just a name with a set of sexy numbers and awards. But feel free to contribute and dispute.

1. Hasek. I will never forget a comment awarded by one of the TV commentators after yet another spectacular save: "And the question everybody is asking right now is: 'Is this guy human?'" A definition of uniqueness. There's never going to be another one like him.

2. Lemieux. Pretty much a given. Looked like a star and played like a star. Incredible creativity.

3. Gretzky. Another case of "there's never going to be another one like him." Stats through the roof, but not exactly a highlight reel. You have to REALLY know hockey to appreciate what he did.

4. Valery Kharlamov. I believe that between 72 and 76 he was the best forward in the world. A real artist on ice.

5. Bobby Orr. I'm sure other people will have him higher.

6. Pavel Bure. I think they invented YouTube just for this guy. Not much in the way of winning, but the 94 playoffs and 98 Olympics were runs for the ages.

7. Eric Lindros. Bull on skates with soft hands.

8. Mike Bossy. The Shot.

9. Sergei Fedorov. The most perfect set of skills applied over the entire ice surface.

10. Nick Lidstrom. I was thinking about Potvin, but at the end of the day Nick was just so damn smooth.

Honorable mentions: Jaromir Jagr, Denis Potvin, Joe Sakic, Phil Esposito.
orrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....he has the longest most impressively versatile "how did he do that" highlight package in the history of the game.

ot92s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 04:02 PM
  #43
kmad
Riot Survivor
 
kmad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 33,259
vCash: 500
I'm gathering that Sentinel really means this list to be top ten flashiest players.

kmad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 04:17 PM
  #44
Fred Taylor
The Cyclone
 
Fred Taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,145
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkman View Post
Yes, scoring more than 1,000 points in five seasons and more than 400 points more than the next guy is so subtle. He may have been a HoFer after the 85-6 season.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...rder_by=points
He is right though. Gretzky was a very cerebral player. He would have tons of points some nights, and most of the game you would swear you hardly noticed him. Not that Gretzky didn't have flashy plays, but a guy such as Denis Savard, who played during the same era, and was a much worse player than Gretzky, was actually more flashy and exciting to watch.

1. Bobby Orr
2. Wayne Gretzky
3. Mario Lemieux
4. Gordie Howe
5. Dominik Hasek
6. Bobby Hull
7. Doug Harvey
8. Denis Potvin
9. Jaromir Jagr
10. Forsberg/Lindros.

This is going strictly by "prime". It really isn't a whole lot different than my all-time players list, except that it excludes Beliveau and Bourque, for Jagr and Potvin, and Forsberg or Lindros would take Roy's spot.

Fred Taylor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 06:58 PM
  #45
Zine
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 9,373
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
This thread is tailor-made for Kharlamov. In fact, the list of Top 5 Russians should look something like this:

Kharlamov
Bure
Fedorov
Ovechkin
Makarov / Maltsev / Firsov
What?

Not sure of those choices if highest peak is main criteria.

In no order:
Fetisov
Kharlamov
Makarov
Tretiak
Ovechkin

Zine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 07:02 PM
  #46
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 23,650
vCash: 500
1 - Lafleur
2 - Lafleur
3 - Lafleur
4 - Lafleur
5 - Lafleur

You're wrong, I'm right.

MXD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 07:05 PM
  #47
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Casablanca
Country: Morocco
Posts: 26,174
vCash: 500
Guy Lafleur

Killion is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 07:38 PM
  #48
JT Dutch*
Cult of Personality
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
Gretzky. Another case of "there's never going to be another one like him." Stats through the roof, but not exactly a highlight reel. You have to REALLY know hockey to appreciate what he did.
I agree with this completely.

Gretzky, in my opinion, was the best of all time at simply executing fundamentals. He'll never get enough credit for that, or for his physical skills. Being a great skater doesn't mean being the fastest skater. Having the best shot doesn't mean having the hardest shot. Wayne skated fast enough, and he shot the puck hard enough. At the time he played, Gretzky had the best lateral movement and the best first step to the puck in the World. He had an excellent stutter step. He had an ability to lean in any direction to avoid almost all hits headed his way. No one shot the puck more accurately than Gretzky did. Wayne's passing accolades are well-earned and deserved, but what's not widely known is that he was probably better at receiving passes than he was at dishing them off.

People will always use "cerebral" in reference to Wayne, and that's accurate enough. But the physical gifts he had were tremendous.

JT Dutch* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 07:42 PM
  #49
Rhiessan71
Just a Fool
 
Rhiessan71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Guelph, Ont
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,761
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vancouver Blazers View Post
I'm gathering that Sentinel really means this list to be top ten flashiest players.
Obviously not if he has Lidstrom in his list. Nick was was of the least flashiest superstars in NHL history.

I honestly cant make heads or tails of the criteria hes using.

Rhiessan71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 07:44 PM
  #50
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 23,650
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
Obviously not if he has Lidstrom in his list. Nick was was of the least flashiest players in NHL history.

I honestly cant make heads or tails of the criteria hes using.
Which is basically why player 1 to 5 is Guy Lafleur.

MXD is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:04 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.