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Political Stuff That Just Ain't Thread Worthy ‎- Part X

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Old
12-21-2013, 11:45 AM
  #101
invictus
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You do realize that there's an implication in there?

Yes, stealing and murder are both crimes. But they're far, far different in scope. Putting them in the same sentence implies that they're on the same level.

"An ice cream sandwich and a night with Mila Kunis are both good things."

See how stupid that reads?

So, yes, when he utters the word bestiality in the same breath as homosexuality, it comes across as him trying to equate the two. Especially when the rest of the sentence is about promiscuity. It's really sounds like nothing more than the old slippery slope fears that homophobes have spewed for decades: "We all know them gay fellers sleep around (why else is AIDS a gay disease?), and if we accept it, what's next? Incest? Bestiality?"

So, yeah, it's a pretty reprehensible thing to say. And I'm happy he's facing a backlash for it, because intolerance should be shot down (and, please, let's not get into " not tolerating intolerance is also intolerance." Tolerance doesn't mean accepting bigotry).
This reminds me of many heated discussions I had in an Islam in Europe class a few years ago about The Netherlands, Theo Van Gogh, and the intolerance of some people over there for those who don't share their beliefs.

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12-21-2013, 11:49 AM
  #102
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Great post, Nightslyr.

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12-21-2013, 12:23 PM
  #103
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What's the expiration date on a series like this? They have another season in the can anyway, right? Won't this show have completely jumped the shark by the point they'd be ready to shoot a new season anyway?



Im sure the shows popularity would still be enough to justify a couple of more seasons at a minimum(they do two or three "seasons" a year, btw), but I do recall now that Phil had said a few months back that he wasn't going to do the show a whole lot longer so this may just be the way it ends rather than waiting for it to get cancelled.

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12-21-2013, 12:31 PM
  #104
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Im sure the shows popularity would still be enough to justify a couple of more seasons at a minimum(they do two or three "seasons" a year, btw), but I do recall now that Phil had said a few months back that he wasn't going to do the show a whole lot longer so this may just be the way it ends rather than waiting for it to get cancelled.
Yeah, it seems like a pretty calculated thing to me, especially since most TV contracts have image clauses in them, of which he's no doubt aware.

I think it's also important to note that Phil has a Master's degree, so it's not like he's some country yokel who lucked into making a product that made him millions. Which is another reason why his comments should be criticized. He should be smarter than that.

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12-21-2013, 12:34 PM
  #105
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Yeah, it seems like a pretty calculated thing to me, especially since most TV contracts have image clauses in them, of which he's no doubt aware.

I think it's also important to note that Phil has a Master's degree, so it's not like he's some country yokel who lucked into making a product that made him millions. Which is another reason why his comments should be criticized. He should be smarter than that.
I think he knew exactly what he was doing. Apparently he wanted A&E to allow more religious content in the series but they wouldn't go for it.

this is probably Phil making sure it gets discussed regardless

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12-21-2013, 01:18 PM
  #106
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I think he knew exactly what he was doing. Apparently he wanted A&E to allow more religious content in the series but they wouldn't go for it.

this is probably Phil making sure it gets discussed regardless
Yes I can see how him wanting more religious content on the show ties in with his statements that Blacks had it good in the good old Jim Crow South. Good call.

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12-21-2013, 01:27 PM
  #107
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How dare you people try to apply 21st century morality to a man who lives his life in the old testament/pre-civil war. For shame!

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12-21-2013, 02:11 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Troy McClure View Post
And her employer only found out because a bunch of strangers felt that a person's tweet was reason to go tattle. Can you imagine hearing hearing an offensive joke at a party, then getting in your car to race over to that person's boss's house to tell on them? Like I said, her getting fired was probably bound to happen, but these Internet thought police people are a new level of pathetic.
Actually I can imagine it. In the pre-social media days these sorts of things were reported to employers as well.

At one Christmas party lo those many years ago when I was a newly minted lawyer, a partner was behaving badly towards a female article student while under the influence. It was reported and the partner was forced out of the partnership and suspended by the Law Society for unprofessional conduct.

If a person wants to be a provocative dumbass in public when revealing one's employer, then one should not be surprised when there are consequences in respect of the employment relationship. In this case we are talking about a member of senior management where better is to be expected.

Many company have specific language in Codes of Conduct dealing with social media. I have drafted such clauses for companies in the past for inclusion in Code of Conduct handbooks.

The Government of Canada via Treasury Board has detailed policies on the use of social media. Recently on a message board a federal public servant was posting racist and discriminatory comments via an official account which resulted in a report and as I understand it the employee has been disciplined.

Links to precedents:
http://socialmediagovernance.com/policies.php
http://socialmediatoday.com/daveflee...-and-resources

In the aftermath of the Stanley Cup riot in Vancouver one riot participant, Camille Cacnio, posted a lengthy "apology" (more like a justification) about her role and it created a firestorm which led to her firing from her receptionist job at a local car dealership as well as other consequences. Of course she was sorry after being captured on video and outed publicly:


Sales manager Patrick Almeida, of Burrard Acura in Vancouver, said he terminated the employment of Camille Cacnio after receiving complaints about her behaviour during the riot.

"Saturday morning, I received an email saying that one of our employees was involved in the looting downtown," Almeida told CBC News Wednesday.

That message was followed by a flurry of others, he said, "from threatening phone calls to threatening emails, to upset emails, upset phone calls."

"It's been pretty ugly."

Cacnio had been seen on a widely distributed video, running out of a store during the riot, carrying apparently looted merchandise.

The University of British Columbia student had worked weekends at Burrard Acura for two years.

"She was here. I talked to her. I asked her 'what's this,'" Almeida said. "She really looked at me dumbfounded."

He said he fired Cacnio on the spot.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...m-job-1.977999

See the original "apology" with an excerpt quoted below from this self-proclaimed smiling "bad-ass". It is all about the adrenaline rush, eh? Dear Vancouver, I am sorry.
My Story

I know a lot of you don’t believe me, but the truth is that I take full responsibility for my actions and am sincerely apologetic for what I did. What I did was completely out of character for me, but I did it because I was influenced by mob mentality. I want to shed light onto the thought process that was in my head so that maybe you can all get a little bit of an understanding and sympathize for people like me, who made wrong decisions but have now become victims of this social media form of mob mentality.

Why don’t I think I deserve all this treatment?

Because for one, I’ve admitted to my mistakes, two, I am ready to deal with the consequences in a judicial manner, and three, because (may I remind you that) I am responsible for theft – a fairly minor action compared to vandalism and arson. Please remember and understand that I am not responsible for the riot.

I did not vandalize any buildings.
I did not set fire on anything.
I did not break any glass.
I did not instigate the riot.
I did not physically harm anybody.
I did not jump on any cop cars.
I did not even plan on being in the riot.

On any regular day I would not condone looting. (My note - but it is okay on special days?)

However, at the time of the riot everything just seemed so right.

At the time, being a part of the riot was simply to fulfill the adrenaline rush I was looking and hoping for – an adrenaline rush that I previously got from post-winning games: hugging randoms, dancing on the streets, honking car horns non-stop, and high-fiving just about everybody. In the same way that everybody enjoyed collectively showing pride in our team, it was enjoyable to express my disappointment in a collective manor (sic).

I had no intentions of defiling the city. I love Vancouver as much as you do – I’ve lived here since I was 7 months old. But in my immature, intoxicated perspective all I saw was that the riot was happening, and would continue happening with or without me, so I might as well get my adrenaline fix.
...
The infamous smile

And still, a lot of people will never find remorse for me because I had a huge smile on my face. But like I said earlier, it was fun at the time. I thought it was pretty funny because this is the only time that I would ever do something like this. The smile on my face was an “I’m such a badass I can’t believe I’m doing this!” kind of look.
And then she purported to give her critics a legal lesson - too bad she did not realize that the Charter of Rights applies to government actions and not the private sector. And this was really about asserting her feminism - REAL WIMMIN RIOT.
A Peripheral Aside: Notes on Feminism & Racism

There are a few things that I have seen on social media sites that have come across to me as a major concern. First off, a little bit about racism:

Since I am a Canadian citizen, I am aware of my rights. Let me show you a little insert from the Canadian Charter of Rights:

Equality Rights
EQUALITY BEFORE AND UNDER LAW AND EQUAL PROTECTION AND BENEFIT OF LAW / Affirmative action programs.

15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.

(2) Subsection (1) does not preclude any law, program or activity that has as its object the amelioration of conditions of disadvantaged individuals or groups including those that are disadvantaged because of race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.

Racism is not accepted in my country, so to the following people, and all others of the like, if you are going to make racist remarks, then maybe you should leave our country.
...
Here’s another thing that bothers me: why is everybody so surprised that a female partook in the riot? What is with this attitude that females are incapable of doing what men can do? Maybe it takes an event like this to show you misogynists that woman are fully capable of anything you can do. And if my actions lead to that revelation in your obscure little heads, then maybe it’s a good thing that I partook in this event.
Given her attitude as expressed in her posted "apology" it should come as no surprise that after being convicted and sentenced to probation she then breached her terms of probation - nothing like being a self-entitled princess, eh? Her post tells you all you need to know about this POS.

And it seems unlike she posted in her apology she has not "learned from her mistakes":
I learned from my mistake, I am not proud of my mistake, and I will make sure not to be influenced by people as easily as I was. I will make sure to make proper judgements on all my decisions in life. I am prepared to do community work, pay fines, and if worst comes to worst, even a criminal record.
As reported:
Stanley Cup rioter Camille Cacnio has been found guilty of breaching the terms of her probation order.

Last year, the Richmond resident pled guilty to participating in a riot and was handed a suspended two-year sentence and ordered to perform 150 hours of community service. She had been caught on video taking a pair of pants from a Black & Lee store in downtown Vancouver on June 15, 2011.

In January, Cacnio was found out past her curfew after police pulled her car over because the headlights were off.

Cacnio has been sentenced to one day in jail for breaching conditions, but was credited with time already served since she was jailed after being found in breach of her probation.

Cacnio’s two-year suspended sentence was handed down on Sept. 7, 2012, and for the first 12 months of her suspended sentence, she’s barred from being outside her residence between 10 p.m. and 6 a.m., except for medical emergencies or unless she has written permission from her probation officer.
On December 19th she was convicted on another theft charge:
http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/2013/12/19...-to-new-charge

Camille Cacnio is the poster girl for that old maxim -



More people should engage their brain before hitting enter - assuming they have a brain in the first place. Ignorance and bad behaviour has consequences in the real world - who knew, eh?


Last edited by Wetcoaster: 12-21-2013 at 02:18 PM.
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Old
12-21-2013, 02:16 PM
  #109
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I guess it depends. Back in the mid 80's at the Christmas party I told the CEO of the company I was working for and a big VC that invested in our company the "turn her over I want puppies" joke and kept my job. The memory of the looks on their faces is priceless to me to this day.

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12-21-2013, 09:06 PM
  #110
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You misunderstand me. What I mean is that he has these beliefs through a combination of upbringing/social environment/religious factors, then figures out (or is told) what parts of the Bible to look at to justify them. Or he's heard them on TV from Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson or whoever.

I highly, highly doubt that this guy has read the Bible cover to cover and it quoting verses from memory.
Phil Robertson is a preacher and conducts Bible studies. Whether he has an agenda or not I think it's safe to say at the very least he has read the Bible and can quote it. While his language was course and politically incorrect the fact remains that the Bible's stance on homosexuality is clear. That is spun and/or ignored during times like this. If people want to believe the Bible is bigoted, out of date, etc that's one thing, but don't pretend that homosexuality is in any way consistent with its teachings which are the foundation of Christianity.

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12-21-2013, 09:36 PM
  #111
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Bible's pretty clear on eating pork and shellfish as well, dunno why he didn't mention them.

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12-21-2013, 10:05 PM
  #112
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Actually I can imagine it. In the pre-social media days these sorts of things were reported to employers as well.

At one Christmas party lo those many years ago when I was a newly minted lawyer, a partner was behaving badly towards a female article student while under the influence. It was reported and the partner was forced out of the partnership and suspended by the Law Society for unprofessional conduct.

If a person wants to be a provocative dumbass in public when revealing one's employer, then one should not be surprised when there are consequences in respect of the employment relationship. In this case we are talking about a member of senior management where better is to be expected.
You're describing a totally different situation. I have also seen a person get fired for doing something inappropriate at an after work social gathering. The difference is that the people you and I are talking about had some actual connection to the people and had a reason to put an end to the bad behavior.

I refuse to see these Twitter vigilante idiots as anything but idiots. I don't know why you're eager to support them. They're a pretty pathetic group of people.

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12-21-2013, 10:21 PM
  #113
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You're describing a totally different situation. I have also seen a person get fired for doing something inappropriate at an after work social gathering. The difference is that the people you and I are talking about had some actual connection to the people and had a reason to put an end to the bad behavior.

I refuse to see these Twitter vigilante idiots as anything but idiots. I don't know why you're eager to support them. They're a pretty pathetic group of people.
You are free to be a doofus and the public at large is free to call you on it.

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12-21-2013, 11:18 PM
  #114
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Call me an idiot. That's fine.

But to run to my boss and demand that I get fired? Pathetic.

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12-22-2013, 01:46 AM
  #115
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Call me an idiot. That's fine.

But to run to my boss and demand that I get fired? Pathetic.
Real world consequences for one's "doofitude". Strange eh?

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12-22-2013, 02:45 AM
  #116
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Call me an idiot. That's fine.

But to run to my boss and demand that I get fired? Pathetic.
It may be pathetic, but a cursory look at her twitter feed before the AIDS/Africa thing shows her competency as a communications professional for high-profile companies is highly questionable. I have no idea how she ever ascended to a director level.

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12-22-2013, 05:37 AM
  #117
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It may be pathetic, but a cursory look at her twitter feed before the AIDS/Africa thing shows her competency as a communications professional for high-profile companies is highly questionable. I have no idea how she ever ascended to a director level.
I doubt Troy or anyone else is defending her remarks. It's the idea of random people on the Internet getting up in arms about something a complely unknown person says that's pathetic. People on this very forum say things that could most likely get them fired if a name and a face were attached to the post. Where are all the Internet vigilantes here? Yes, the woman is an idiot whose constant dumb remarks may eventually have gotten her fired anyway, but her dumb remarks are a lot less frightening than the actions of the Internet vigilantes as far as I'm concerned.

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12-22-2013, 08:03 AM
  #118
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You're describing a totally different situation. I have also seen a person get fired for doing something inappropriate at an after work social gathering. The difference is that the people you and I are talking about had some actual connection to the people and had a reason to put an end to the bad behavior.

I refuse to see these Twitter vigilante idiots as anything but idiots. I don't know why you're eager to support them. They're a pretty pathetic group of people.
I'm not really sure that's an accurate description of what happened though. Seems like while there were obviously many people saying she should be fired, this wasn't some direct effort to contact her company and have her terminated, it's just a case where something started spreading around Twitter like wildfire with retweets, jokes, memes, etc. to the point where it embarrasses the company involved:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/alisonvingia...e-worlds-top-s

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12-22-2013, 08:12 AM
  #119
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I'm not really sure that's an accurate description of what happened though. Seems like while there were obviously many people saying she should be fired, this wasn't some direct effort to contact her company and have her terminated, it's just a case where something started spreading around Twitter like wildfire with retweets, jokes, memes, etc. to the point where it embarrasses the company involved:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/alisonvingia...e-worlds-top-s
Isn't that just as ridiculous? "Look, some person whom I'm never met and who isn't even the least bit famous just said something stupid. Let me display my outrage/make a big deal out of it by plastering it all over facebook!" As if Twitter weren't already a ridiculous medium, now we're going to get worked up about the vapid thoughts random obscure people disseminate on it?

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12-22-2013, 08:29 AM
  #120
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Isn't that just as ridiculous? "Look, some person whom I'm never met and who isn't even the least bit famous just said something stupid. Let me display my outrage/make a big deal out of it by plastering it all over facebook!" As if Twitter weren't already a ridiculous medium, now we're going to get worked up about the vapid thoughts random obscure people disseminate on it?
That's basically what Twitter is about isn't it? Outrageous/funny/stupid stuff gets retweeted and passed around all the time, mostly because it's so easy to do so (whereas making an in-person complaint, or complaining over the phone, or some other slower medium takes a lot more effort). Twitter allows a person to "interact" with a "story" in the most superficial, lazy way possible, which is how it generates the massive volume it does.

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12-22-2013, 08:45 AM
  #121
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Here's a few select tweets from that Buzzfeed article. Some of these are coming from celebrities, other companies, and so on, not just random people. None of them are expressing outrage, demanding she be fired, or anything of the sort, they are just poking fun and having a laugh at her expense:

Quote:
kerry washington@kerrywashington Follow
“@alvaromano: Olivia Pope: "Gurl, you're on your own with this one" #HasJustineLandedYet ” LOL
Quote:
Lizz Winstead@lizzwinstead Follow
Hey Justine, Maybe Paula Deen is looking for a communications director. #HasJustineLandedYet
Quote:
Gogo@Gogo Follow
Next time you plan to tweet something stupid before you take off, make sure you are getting on a @Gogo flight! CC: @JustineSacco
Now if you are her employer, is that the kind of attention you want your PR director to be getting?

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12-22-2013, 10:14 AM
  #122
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That's pretty crazy.... what an idiot.

How do I delete my HF account?

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12-22-2013, 10:20 AM
  #123
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Here's a few select tweets from that Buzzfeed article. Some of these are coming from celebrities, other companies, and so on, not just random people. None of them are expressing outrage, demanding she be fired, or anything of the sort, they are just poking fun and having a laugh at her expense:


Now if you are her employer, is that the kind of attention you want your PR director to be getting?
It is beyond dispute that this woman has a habit of writing inane and in some cases offensive posts. It's also reasonable that her company fired her for it, given the kerfuffle that ensued. The issue I have is that a bunch of busybodies on the Internet find it necessary to go berzerk over the inane statements of a complete stranger who in the grand scheme of things is far less significant than your standard airheaded Kim Kardashian-level celebrity. What's next... should I go on facebook and repost 651's idiotic rantings on here?

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12-22-2013, 11:05 AM
  #124
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It may be pathetic, but a cursory look at her twitter feed before the AIDS/Africa thing shows her competency as a communications professional for high-profile companies is highly questionable. I have no idea how she ever ascended to a director level.
Feminine wiles??

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12-22-2013, 11:49 AM
  #125
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Its looking more and more like the whole phil robertson thing was planned b A&E. I heard today that there was a network rep present at the GQ interview. If they were truly concerned the rep would have stopped the interview or demanded that those statements be deleted

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